potential enchanter fixes

[cornelweezy]

enchanters could use some lovin'

first things first, aesthetic problems:

L55 Spell: Largarn's Lamentation could use a name change. This is the live name, and Largarn has no lore value in the fine land of Dalaya. This is a single target stun, one I use frequently in exp groups even at 65. May I suggest "Jayla's Tear" or "Tarhansar's Indignation." The %T begins to weep emote is pretty sick.

L56 Spell: Torment of Argli is the same way. I dunno who Argli is in Dalaya. This is a dot I use sometimes at 65, but chain casting nukes generally works a little better. Still, it has it's uses in some fights because of the long duration (which I love). May I suggest a name change to something like "Shojar's Creep" or "Befuddlement."

Next, I'd like to appeal for upgrades to both these spells with improved damages and better resist mods into the 60s. semi recent changes to GoG make it the premiere spell to be casting after tash. Unless I'm spot slowing or mezzing, I'm practically chaincasting GoG on raids. In PUGs, spells like Lagarns and Argli have a lot more potential, especially in huge AE spam groups that basically dominate the lower tiers (of which I still occupy).

Suggestions:
L62 Vex is worthless. Really. In PUGs and raids, I can think of about 7 spells I could and probably should be casting instead. Rename it to "Spell: Placate" and make it a single target incredibly low resist fast cast (.5/1 second) stun with an appreciable memblur rider. Keep the long recast time of Largarn's and maybe make the stun itself last a little longer. It becomes a spiritual successor and in many ways a potential "oh shit" button for broken roots/mezzes.

L61 Mana drain is far more worthless than Vex. Mana drain situations are few and painfully far inbetween, and by the time you get to them, L65 drain reserves (which is an incredibly rare spell) should be available. Also, why mana drain a mob when you could be DPSing it/abetting DPS? Rename it to "Spell: Beset" and make it a 60HP/mana dot with a group tap recourse. Keep the 2 minute duration. Make SK Vortex of Death overwrite it or stack with it, whatever is clever. This would give enchanters more situational DPS option and a legit extra dot to go with chokehold while helping his/her group out.

Feedback plz.
Thanks.

 

[Otcho]

enchanters could use some lovin'

first things first, aesthetic problems:

L55 Spell: Largarn's Lamentation could use a name change. This is the live name, and Largarn has no lore value in the fine land of Dalaya. This is a single target stun, one I use frequently in exp groups even at 65. May I suggest "Jayla's Tear" or "Tarhansar's Indignation." The %T begins to weep emote is pretty sick.

L56 Spell: Torment of Argli is the same way. I dunno who Argli is in Dalaya. This is a dot I use sometimes at 65, but chain casting nukes generally works a little better. Still, it has it's uses in some fights because of the long duration (which I love). May I suggest a name change to something like "Shojar's Creep" or "Befuddlement."

Next, I'd like to appeal for upgrades to both these spells with improved damages and better resist mods into the 60s. semi recent changes to GoG make it the premiere spell to be casting after tash. Unless I'm spot slowing or mezzing, I'm practically chaincasting GoG on raids. In PUGs, spells like Lagarns and Argli have a lot more potential, especially in huge AE spam groups that basically dominate the lower tiers (of which I still occupy).

Suggestions:
L62 Vex is worthless. Really. In PUGs and raids, I can think of about 7 spells I could and probably should be casting instead. Rename it to "Spell: Placate" and make it a single target incredibly low resist fast cast (.5/1 second) stun with an appreciable memblur rider. Keep the long recast time of Largarn's and maybe make the stun itself last a little longer. It becomes a spiritual successor and in many ways a potential "oh shit" button for broken roots/mezzes.

L61 Mana drain is far more worthless than Vex. Mana drain situations are few and painfully far inbetween, and by the time you get to them, L65 drain reserves (which is an incredibly rare spell) should be available. Also, why mana drain a mob when you could be DPSing it/abetting DPS? Rename it to "Spell: Beset" and make it a 60HP/mana dot with a group tap recourse. Keep the 2 minute duration. Make SK Vortex of Death overwrite it or stack with it, whatever is clever. This would give enchanters more situational DPS option and a legit extra dot to go with chokehold while helping his/her group out.

Feedback plz.
Thanks.

Vex is amazing however the level 61 mana drain and its relic successor are both garbage though, bards do it better and its not on a ridiculous cooldown permitting the rare situations you would ever cast it (prison).

Lagarns lamentation owns too, I don't know how you can actually say you use torment of argli though its damage is pathetic and the mana drain is nothing.

Spiritual successor for broken mez/root? They both exist they are called color swirl and wave of enstillment/ the other root as they both cast pretty fast.

Drain reserves is not a player spell.

 

[cornelweezy]

Vex is amazing

o rly?

I don't know how you can actually say you use torment of argli though its damage is pathetic and the mana drain is nothing.

yeah, at tier anything greater than 1 it would suck. Hence, why i want an upgrade.

Spiritual successor for broken mez/root? They both exist they are called color swirl and wave of enstillment/ the other root as they both cast pretty fast.

shackle is cool, and color swirl and wave are too but they are PBAEs. a single target would be nice. And I'm not really pressing for more oh shit buttons but it could be used in that way.

EDIT: also, I see drain reserves on the wiki and I've never seen a copy. just assumed it existed but was rare.

 

[Rorne]

Boon of the Garou is like giantkin jr but was untouched when the giantkin changes went in. I know it's not meant to be chain casted at the level you obtain it but 225 mana for a 4 tick spell is pretty steep. Whether this was left this way on purpose or was just oversight I do not knowwww

 

[cornelweezy]

Boon of the Garou is like giantkin jr but was untouched when the giantkin changes went in. I know it's not meant to be chain casted at the level you obtain it but 225 mana for a 4 tick spell is pretty steep. Whether this was left this way on purpose or was just oversight I do not knowwww

I boon of garou charmed pets. sweet spell yes. I used it up to 65 until I bought gog. also, trickster's augmentation is grossly underrated.

 

[Raralith]

Largarn's Lamentation - Pretty useless, you are better off with Color Swirl. While Largarn has a range, I'm rarely ever way in the back of some group so the range is useless even when charming. Color swirl cost 30 more mana, but it has a faster cast time, 1 second compared to 2.5 which is huge, and the recast is also faster, 14 seconds compared to 24 seconds, again huge when you get a resist. Less cast time, less grey spell bar, more cast time for GoG or clickies.

Torment of Argli - Useless, you are better off with chokehold if you want to DoT. Argli is 28hp/tick over 20 ticks which is 560 damage, 150 mana cost gives this a ratio of 3.7. Chokehold is 65hp/tick (not including the lowered stats) over 20 ticks is 1300 damage, 275 mana cost gives this a ratio of 4.7. Relic: Chaotic Visions is 1153hp DD, 285 mana cost gives this a ratio of 4.0.

Vex - 5 mana to blind target, which is supposed to do something, isn't bad. I don't bother using anymore since I'd rather GoG targets or use my robe clicky. This is no longer on my bar, and anyways, less grey spell bar, more cast for GoG or clickies.

Mana Drain - I don't even bother. I'll load it up for some fights but whatever, draining mana for regular grouping is a waste.

Enchanters are specifically focused to cast GoG and later AoD when you get runics. There's really nothing else worth casting when that spell is so good. This is life. That's it.

 

[Rorne]

Vex - 5 mana to blind target, which is supposed to do something, isn't bad.

welp

 

[cornelweezy]

Enchanters are specifically focused to cast GoG and later AoD when you get runics....That's it.

Can I get some Dev confirmation please that any and all development of my class is going to revolve around how many GoGs I can fit into a single encounter?

fuck like...having fun? Or God forbid there are no GoG targets in my time wasting PuG...all any enchanter is ever good for once dinging 65 is casting GoG.

Do you end game people consider your entire posts before you click submit reply? Obviously not even an aota of this suggestion has anything to do with a T9+ enchanter with 7k+ mana fully relic'd. You could probably tank and melee those east wastes orcs and/or the sentries in Elds. EDIT: or use your bagged clickies to DPS them down.

:toot:

 

[Wiz]

Vex makes the target miss an attack round, same as Jinx. Not a blind. If you keep a mob chain Vexed its the equivalent of a lower tier slow that stacks with other slows, so I have a really hard time seeing it being 'useless' at 5 mana.

 

[cornelweezy]

Vex makes the target miss an attack round, same as Jinx. Not a blind. If you keep a mob chain Vexed its the equivalent of a lower tier slow that stacks with other slows, so I have a really hard time seeing it being 'useless' at 5 mana.

yeah, I'd probably make more sense if I didn't come out making sweeping generalizations of spells. I'm grateful for Vex. It's not worthless, just relatively worthless in that it doesn't fit into my playstyle.

Maybe I need to get over myself and start using it more. I'd still like to see a higher level single target stun, and another situational dot pleeze.

 

[Raralith]

Vex makes the target miss an attack round, same as Jinx. Not a blind. If you keep a mob chain Vexed its the equivalent of a lower tier slow that stacks with other slows, so I have a really hard time seeing it being 'useless' at 5 mana.

Time to put this back on my spell bar than.

Can I get some Dev confirmation please that any and all development of my class is going to revolve around how many GoGs I can fit into a single encounter?

fuck like...having fun? Or God forbid there are no GoG targets in my time wasting PuG...all any enchanter is ever good for once dinging 65 is casting GoG.

Some encounters require mezzing, mana draining, or something different but most are GoG. Honestly, Shared Mind is probably the best buff in the game, and when you can add 1,000 attack rating to 4-5 melee's, I don't even think a wizard can out DPS that. A wizard pressing moon comet, a monk hitting kick, a cleric casting heals, all classes are focused to do something. No melee DPS in a group though and you'll SoL, less you've got some pretty good gear than you're probably better than a much lower teir wizard.

Do you end game people consider your entire posts before you click submit reply? Obviously not even an aota of this suggestion has anything to do with a T9+ enchanter with 7k+ mana fully relic'd. You could probably tank and melee those east wastes orcs and/or the sentries in Elds. EDIT: or use your bagged clickies to DPS them down.

http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=raralith
Clicking submit reply.

 

[cornelweezy]

http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=raralith
Clicking submit reply.

Not sure if you're aware, but recent studies indicate that 99.9% of the people who play SoD aren't Twilight Underground. I'm not talking about class changes (that would effect you), I'm making a suggestion to revamp garbage spells that you've long since progressed beyond (but plenty of up and coming chanters could take advantage of).

Thanks for being constructive.

EDIT: do you even exp group?? I'm still kinda shocked you wasted the time to comment on this.

 

[Raralith]

Not sure if you're aware, but recent studies indicate that 99.9% of the people who play SoD aren't Twilight Underground. I'm not talking about class changes (that would effect you), I'm making a suggestion to revamp garbage spells that you've long since progressed beyond (but plenty of up and coming chanters could take advantage of).

Thanks for being constructive.

Be constructive? I think I've been more than constructive by giving you some advice on why you should skip some spells. Some things, for example our dots, are simply just not really a focus of our class. In addition, some spells, such as GoG, are just so powerful that you really shouldn't be using anything more than that. Do you see clerics with their relic heals use their non relic heals? No, there is just something simply better. If you find that casting GoG is not what you want to do, you should really just reroll right now because you're going to be in for a long, long ride.

I can feel where you are coming from. Trust me, I'm probably one of the last Enchanters on the server that has gone from level 1 to 65, teir 1 to whatever I am, and still play. When I first started, yeah I had "great ideas" on what our class can do. Honestly though, after witness the changes to our class, we are probably at the top of our game in terms of dev's developing our class. Simply put, we are not a jack of all trades, and our focus is to buff other characters.

EDIT: do you even exp group?? I'm still kinda shocked you wasted the time to comment on this.

Of course I exp group, I just never pug because it is a complete waste of time. I'm not sure why you would be shocked either, I was simply giving advice to you since I have progressed through this game.

 

[cornelweezy]

Be constructive? ... Do you see clerics with their relic heals use their non relic heals? No, there is just something simply better.... If you find that casting GoG is not what you want to do, you should really just reroll right now because you're going to be in for a long, long ride.

heh, did you read my first whole post? I'm totally aware that GoG is the shit, and in raids, I cast it on everybody I can. I thought I made that clear. I love enchanters. I'm not dissing GoG. Are you paying attention, mr ubar chanter?

EDIT: and now that I think about it, that is such an incredibly poor analogy. Do clerics not root? Do they not nuke? Do they not hammer rush? They do things other than heal, for sure.

Of course I exp group, I just never pug because it is a complete waste of time.

Right. Your exp groups are full of tier 7+ folks, all relic'd, probably most competing in the top 5 with 100kpp+ charms. Maybe, just maybe, there's a little difference between your exp groups and the other 999/1000 pugs going on in Dalaya that have enchanters. Get my point?

I don't need a lecture on playing our class. I think I do a pretty solid job at my tier. These suggestions weren't meant to be class breakers, or even what I'd consider class development. The shits would be situational. You [Raralith] would probably not be inclined to use these spells anyway even after the changes. That does not mean they are poor suggestions.

 

[Raralith]

heh, did you read my first whole post? I'm totally aware that GoG is the shit, and in raids, I cast it on everybody I can. I thought I made that clear. I love enchanters. I'm not dissing GoG. Are you paying attention, mr ubar chanter?

EDIT: and now that I think about it, that is such an incredibly poor analogy. Do clerics not root? Do they not nuke? Do they not hammer rush? They do things other than heal, for sure.

Yes, I read it and my first reply was actually feedback towards your "aesthic" and "upgrades" that you requested. Absolutely, clerics can do a lot more. Do their roots suck compared to druids? Do their nukes suck compared to wizards? While they certainly can do other things, just like an Enchanter can do other things, their focus is healing. Yeah, let's empower cleric DD, it sure would be nice.

Right. Your exp groups are full of tier 7+ folks, all relic'd, probably most competing in the top 5 with 100kpp+ charms. Maybe, just maybe, there's a little difference between your exp groups and the other 999/1000 pugs going on in Dalaya that have enchanters. Get my point?

I don't need a lecture on playing our class. I think I do a pretty solid job at my tier. These suggestions weren't meant to be class breakers, or even what I'd consider class development. The shits would be situational. You [Raralith] would probably not be inclined to use these spells anyway even after the changes. That does not mean they are poor suggestions.

Thinking back, no there really isn't much of a change from my lowly tier 1 days and up to where I am now. A lot more mezzing since we were unable to handle 2+ mobs, but once I got GoG (pre-improvement), that was pretty much the go to spell. Sure, even if you have GoG, you can do other things like cast DD's, dots, or stuns, but does it maximize your potential? Sadly, no. In my humble opinion, you are almost always better off saving that 250 mana for that DD and save it for a cast of GoG. This is just the reality of the class.

As for the lecture, sorry but it looks like you are indeed in need of my advice if you are using Largarn's Lamentation and Torment of Argli, they are just not as good in almost all situations when you can use Color Swirl and Chokehold if you wanted to stun and dot. Improving upon a spell when you should be using a, technically, superior line is just not a good decision. Improving a spell for an even more remote situation seems even more ridicious.

I'm sorry if you feel that I am coming off as an arrogant bastard because I am genuinely trying not too; I save that for the Class & Gear subforum. Maybe because I've been around, I've read the Enchanter threads, and I've participated in them that I know where our class stands in this game that I have such a view on our class. This is reality though and I'll be blunt, you're a bit too naive. I'll leave your thread be since I have left some feedback towards your original post already.

 

[cornelweezy]

you're a bit too naive. I'll leave your thread be since I have left some feedback towards your original post already.

I'm naive for trying to get the most out of my spell set? heh, you sure owned me. :hmpf:

 

[Otcho]

Largarn's Lamentation - Pretty useless, you are better off with Color Swirl. While Largarn has a range, I'm rarely ever way in the back of some group so the range is useless even when charming. Color swirl cost 30 more mana, but it has a faster cast time, 1 second compared to 2.5 which is huge, and the recast is also faster, 14 seconds compared to 24 seconds, again huge when you get a resist. Less cast time, less grey spell bar, more cast time for GoG or clickies.

Torment of Argli - Useless, you are better off with chokehold if you want to DoT. Argli is 28hp/tick over 20 ticks which is 560 damage, 150 mana cost gives this a ratio of 3.7. Chokehold is 65hp/tick (not including the lowered stats) over 20 ticks is 1300 damage, 275 mana cost gives this a ratio of 4.7. Relic: Chaotic Visions is 1153hp DD, 285 mana cost gives this a ratio of 4.0.

Vex - 5 mana to blind target, which is supposed to do something, isn't bad. I don't bother using anymore since I'd rather GoG targets or use my robe clicky. This is no longer on my bar, and anyways, less grey spell bar, more cast for GoG or clickies.

Mana Drain - I don't even bother. I'll load it up for some fights but whatever, draining mana for regular grouping is a waste.

Enchanters are specifically focused to cast GoG and later AoD when you get runics. There's really nothing else worth casting when that spell is so good. This is life. That's it.

Just sayin, lagarns lamentation is the only spin stun in game so its pretty much the tits when your duo is enchanter/rogue and that you're dumb.

For what its worth, the thing you suggested like a new dot would suck at tier one, if your at east waste orcs you have far better shit to expend your mana on in any situation other than a 60 point a tick dot. I remember when I got the plaguefang ring so I could have a legitimate (compared to chokehold) dot and then some devious dev nerfed the clicky down a spell level.

And yes I consider everyone especially under these circumstances since my first toon was an enchanter and still is a low tiered scumbag (Ellese)


I also recall some threads where enchanters cried and begged for a better dot or actual chokehold damage and got shot down by the "vision" in which enchanters do not do direct damage. I really wish chokehold and some other spell Im forgetting at the moment did however have a nice resist adjust.

 

[cornelweezy]

For what its worth, the thing you suggested like a new dot would suck at tier one, if your at east waste orcs you have far better shit to expend your mana on in any situation other than a 60 point a tick dot.

I agree. But there have arisen situations where some extra dot dmg wouldn't hurt. I've been in these situations. Hence, I used the spell and found it somewhat useful (emphasis on the relatively long 2 minute duration/it's a dot so it doesn't break root). I'm not out here clamouring for more enchanter DPS. I know I'm not deeps. In fact, I'm GLAD I'm not deeps. But we enchanters already have Torment of Argli...it's in my spellbook. Whatever reason it was cool for us to get it at 56 (it stacks with chokehold btw) probably didn't go away by 65. Unless, like I'm beginning to suspect, it's just a carryover from live, at which point I suggested name changes that probably should be implemented. And I'm totally OK with that too.

This is random and I just thought of it but wouldn't the whole idea of DoT weakening fit in line with the enchanter "musclelock" vision? heh, I mean Chokehold in and of itself weakens pretty significantly but yeah.

I also recall some threads where enchanters cried and begged for a better dot or actual chokehold damage and got shot down by the "vision" in which enchanters do not do direct damage. I really wish chokehold and some other spell Im forgetting at the moment did however have a nice resist adjust.

heh, at 305 CHA and max scm, i've never had a chokehold resist. Stacks with cripple. Sweet spell. I feel like the 2 minute durations on enchanter dots are grossly underrated.

EDIT: did Dreadlands today and the citadel defenders resisted chokehold all the way to the bank. Also, cacti make exceptional charmed pets.

Honestly, as it sits, enchanter is the funnest class I've ever played, and I've played everything in SoD to 65 or at 65 except paladin, monk, warrior, and rogue.

 

[Cinn]

Vex - 5 mana to blind target, which is supposed to do something, isn't bad.

welp

ahah god I love you raralith

 

[cyryllis]

please someone just change relic: thoughtshatter to something actually useful (pvp doesnt count)