Brainstorming

The Learning curve might hold some guilds back.
I think its been addressed great thou with the addition of mobs in MoP, animation in yclist,
low end names in overgrowth, and rohk trash.
Seems getting players used to being emoted on then having to run/do something realquick
could take some getting used to.

exodus progression atm is halted on learning emotes for ->
A primeval colossus - ducking doesnt seem to break the reflection hoping los will, else thinking we dpsing wrong mob. but idk been using same strat that got one to 20% once. then pray a bird pet doesnt keep dpsing when we need to switch.

Sharn`Ree, Blood's Justice - first mob on bridge has mobs that seem to need snared, blown up. while ppl in melee avoid some port that puts them in a place with possible adds. all while avoiding getting blown up by adds.

both sound ez, and fun.
but sometimes hard to get ppl to want to wipe to stuff with mechiacs that are completing new to them.
hmal when it first came out comes to mind, praetors minis are very easy and hella fun.
but its Very ez to die till you have those press buttons, move a bit, check emotes, press buttons skills.

but thats like anything in this game, and why i enjoy it i guess.
 
wiping repeatedly to learn things is a pretty big hassle in this game compared to something like wow, but it has been improved a lot over the years. however, i would think loot is a big enough motivator to keep people going at it

yes, spending time gets you ahead in this game. that is actually one of the main design decisions of the game, you need look no further than the existence of tomes to see that. however, the idea that someone with 80 tomes and a 1.2 mil charm is so far ahead of a guy with 25 tomes and a 550k is blown way out of proportion. the largest barrier to entry is the players themselves. to use an example, exodus has farmed tur'ruj basement probably 4x as much as we did. we spent the time instead learning new content. why is that our fault? or the devs fault?
 
All in all, Shards of Dalaya is the The Best EQ I know of :) Nothing is ever perfect, but this is really really good.

Gary
 
First off thank you Ynnear for bringing this topic up for discussion. I like a lot of the input I've read here on this thread.*

*Some ideas in this thread I dislike but I won't really discuss those because I am most certain it would never be implemented. However, keep the ideas coming regardless because we need this dialogue in order to keep our community engaged.*

In regards to the player base and the desire for more players I believe Quintessas hit the nail on the head. It is really just a matter of PR. I will leave it at that - be other forums or social media or just plain word of mouth. *If you have any friends who you played on live with who you are still in contact with it might be worth it to drop them a line. *

Tackling downtime seems to me to be a fine line. I agree that yes, one does control one's own downtime. Risk and reward are important despite the inconvenience it might create. *This is part of what makes this game rewarding. *Still, I am certain that there could be some minor tweaks that could be applied that would speed things up a little. *The idea of rez removing death fatigue seems that it wouldn't have a severe impact yet still punish a complete wipe (because wiping is bad, don't be bad).

Making things easier below level 10 (MoP, death fatigue and item access via content) seems to me a good way to ease new players into SoD. An easy way to open up some items to new players would be to make the Wyvernfang armor (yah remember that?) a lot more accessible to new players by marking the patterns and materials drop from world mobs 5-25 instead of 40+ since it seems that range would get the most use out of that quality of gear.

Adepts great aspect of the 1-65 game but sadly have become less and less accessible as the population diminishes. This is particularly acute once you reach the adepts that are in the level 34-52 range. *Some of these require a robust force that is near impossible to organize given our population base. *Now I would hate to see these mobs nerfed because I believe that, like all good content, they should remain a rewarding challenge.

What I propose is expanding the level range that can engage these mobs but apply Nadox style stat decreases on toons that are beyond the current level caps. * Instead of having a hard cap on who can engage these mobs have more of an ideal level to engage them. *It would be necessary to impose a sliding scale debuff in that the further you got above the engage cap the heavier the debuff. This probably would have to include damage dealt as well.*

I don't know what a good range would be but I would encourage something along the lines of up to level 44 for a level 34 adept with the harshest penalty being scaled at level 44 in a way that would put them on par with a level 34 toon. Perhaps even below par because we would want to still encourage players to engage these mobs when they are at the "ideal" level. * In place of toons not being able to engage with higher level buffs just have them be instantly dispelled if they are above the level cap.*

I believe that changes to the adepts along these lines would allow this content to become more accessible to those who under the current conditions will most certainly not ever be able to see much of it. Perhaps some adept related quests could be added as well to spice things up just a little more.*

I really like the work that the devs have been putting in of recent (and in the past) and I must express my thanks for their time and effort.*

Thanks for reading,
Dernip
 
probably true they take too much time, but they serve to keep people busy, and they only become a big problem when people put too much stock in them to begin with. what i really don't understand is why exp has been nerfed a few times. remember the days of citadel 20% zem? hell, even emberflow was nerfed from 70 to 60. i would have loved to see the conversation where it was decided that nerfing EMBERFLOW exp by 10% was a necessary change to the game. and speaking as someone who had like 50 tomes when cita was nerfed, i think its bullshit that new players have to spend more time to get to where i was.

and anti, i don't even really think player skill is a big factor. its all about how players choose to spend their time dollars. "we cant beat this because we arent geared/tomed enough" almost always actually means (pro alliteration) "we dont want to spend the time progressing" and tbh, that is fine.
 
i see it as a mix of time investment and skilled players that accel people to the top. healers ducking when nesscessary and timing heals perfectly can save precious mana on an on tier fight just as a tank utilizing all his abilties to reduce his own damage or assist rogues and other dps by actively keeping his hate high and moving/turning mobs effectively for them. of course dps pressing all the rigth buttons to max their potential is also a great boon.

the time investmant many commit or have comitted allows for critcal strategizing time on new content as well as fine tunig strats to a point of near perfection.

basically a guild pull of such peaople can decimate content quicker than the average joe player but a mix of both often works well though may cause a-team vs b-team disparity on 6-man content or exp groups. its all up to the guilds an dits player show to utilize their players and time effectively. just my thoughts on the matter though.
 
Crynel said:
i see it as a mix of time investment and skilled players that accel people to the top. healers ducking when nesscessary and timing heals perfectly can save precious mana on an on tier fight just as a tank utilizing all his abilties to reduce his own damage or assist rogues and other dps by actively keeping his hate high and moving/turning mobs effectively for them. of course dps pressing all the rigth buttons to max their potential is also a great boon.

the time investmant many commit or have comitted allows for critcal strategizing time on new content as well as fine tunig strats to a point of near perfection.

basically a guild pull of such peaople can decimate content quicker than the average joe player but a mix of both often works well though may cause a-team vs b-team disparity on 6-man content or exp groups. its all up to the guilds an dits player show to utilize their players and time effectively. just my thoughts on the matter though.
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tl;dr monk pressing kick makes or breaks the raids dps
 
Obscenitor said:
If you have the ability to raid 3 times a week and can find a guild with like minded individuals I would say 9 months to 1 year to get to tier 7 these days. I would also argue that the server perception of what is necessary (exp & charm) to complete content on tier is exaggerated (in some cases extremely). I remember a time when IP (tier 7-8) was the end game.. and it was before Codexes of Power were even introduced into the game.

More recently (prior to Ikisith's release), the first four mobs in Sanctum were the end game (Custodian did exist a long time ago but was never properly tuned & tested). These mobs are tier 11, and prior to Ikisith's release, were killed by guilds that averaged less than 5 completed tomes. Nowadays, there are guilds killing the same content that probably average 12+ tomes per main raider. There are even guilds killing Tier 9/10 content (Prestige comes to mind) that have raiders with 30+ tomes, it is ridiculous.

I would say the "barriers to entry" for end game raiding have almost everything to do with player perception and very little to do with actual game design.

Edit: With all of this being said, if the end game keeps expanding, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to accelerate progress up to a certain point, potentially maintaining a 9 "tier" window of normal progression rates (currently from tier 4 or whatever to tier 13).
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It takes around a year to level to 65 and get farmed to Tier 7-8-9 if you play enough to get hooked up in a guild that takes dedicacy over AAs and gear. So you were right.

Honestly I still want to play the game, a lot. But I really don't feel like it's going anywhere at this point with so many people that completed so much of the game

IMO what would be awesome would be to shake things up in current raid zones ( a little bit ), create 1 more zone between tier 1-6, polish low level zones, wipe the server fresh and give an incentive proportional to experience ( not saying I had deep thought about that one but I figured it might help the bitching ) to people who had high tier toons.

At some point in time servers in every game become stagnant. I'm not saying SoD is, but it kinda starts to feel like it when I see what's being added to the game nowadays.

I think this would serve a lot of purpose in that the DEVs could actually work on content without worrying much about the progression since really at this point no one completed the whole game, and starting fresh would bring a lot to of old and new people at least for a while.People would have to work their way up again. There's nothing funner than starting when there's a lot of people doing it too.

I mean really, if you look at the other EMUL, nothing is very popular right now, mostly because it's stagnant. But everytime you hear a new server possibly coming online with some ' classic ' flavor or some shit, everyone has an erection.
 
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funky3 said:
Ulandx,

Thank you for your completely useless, troll post. Is this your way of being welcoming to players with new ideas? I'm so shocked you guys are having player base issues.

If you read the OP, the question was how to increase the player base. Not, how can we bash other people's ideas and totally look like a dick. If you actually read my post, I'm well aware that my thoughts would not appeal to many of the current player base. You guys have dedicated years of your life to this game and I understand it would be difficult to let new players reap benefits you didn't have. The question was asked and the answer is pretty simple. With such a slow leveling progression to 65 and to get the AA's / tomes necessary to play the end game content with the majority of the current pbase, there are too many varying levels of players. With the player base so small, most people (other than the top end players) have no one to group with. This is why people leave. As far as I can tell, most new players join a guild and leap frog past the tiers by being carried by their guild. If players could make new chars and reasonably get to these levels in a few weeks, people might actually play the lower end content rather than being carried through it.

Just so you don't feel the need to bash more. I am very clear that the time sinks, long progression, etc. are what brought many of you to SoD over other MMOs, but you are the minority! More people like games that don't eat away at your real life. Maybe you want SoD to stand out from the rest. So, don't go so far as I suggest. Simply increase it by a little bit. Currently, to progress to tier 7+ without much help, I'm guessing a new player would probably spend somewhere between 1-5 years. I never suggested skipping content, but I'm certainly suggesting people want to see more content faster in today's gaming.

Guess what happens when the playerbase increases? You have the opportunity to have more devs / admins which can make more content to keep old players like you and I clicking away.

Regards,
Paul (Bagok)
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I'm not sure what your gaming background is, but you are totally fucking oblivious.

If you can't enjoy the game without being Tier7 ( why 7 ? ) plus, I don't really know what to tell you. The EXP here is already pretty fast. You don't need to commit THAT much time to work it out, and a lot of people proved that. Also, as far as your statement about spending years and whatnot... Even in shitty games there are hardcore fan bases that waste a good portion of their lives. Accelerating would accomplish absolutely nothing. If anything you should blame the low player population and the obscene amount of 65s/alts. Not the speed.
 
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Jotigidou said:
Accelerating would accomplish absolutely nothing. If anything you should blame the low player population and the obscene amount of 65s/alts. Not the speed.
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Actually accelerating exp/quests/raids/whatever would entice more casual players to actively play on the server which is the entire point of the thread.
 
Jadelia,

First off, I posted my gaming background in my first post. Feel free to take a look.

Second, I think Widan hit the nail on the head.

Third, these are just my suggestions! If you disagree, post an alternative. You don't need to personally attack me if you disagree by calling me "fucking oblivious". As mentioned twice already, I understand many of you guys like the fact that SoD has a very slow progression to the end game. As shown by many of the replies, there are also others that disagree with you. As stated, your "THAT much time to work it out" is about a year given the best of circumstances (you have a guild full of players at your level to help you achieve these goals). Looks like my 1-5 years isn't that far off. I'm not sure what your gaming background is, but that is a pretty large time commitment for even today's hardcore players.

Regards,
Paul (Bagok)
 
Exp being fast on sod has not been true for a very long time. If you are a new player the 1-65 is a hurdle. Sure some nice things have made it easier(big fuck you to mithril weapons) but its still much slower than live has been for a long time. Not even going to compare it to other videogames. SoD's 1-65 content is however entirely forgettable for the most part and I think this is a huge detriment to attracting new players.
 
Exp being fast is relative to the exp ceiling so yeah in looking at it that way it is fucking slow now
 
Otcho said:
Exp being fast on sod has not been true for a very long time. If you are a new player the 1-65 is a hurdle. Sure some nice things have made it easier(big fuck you to mithril weapons) but its still much slower than live has been for a long time. Not even going to compare it to other videogames. SoD's 1-65 content is however entirely forgettable for the most part and I think this is a huge detriment to attracting new players.
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It's still massively better than classic EQ though.
 
If i have a nightmare about hell levels im hunting you down fyi oh dear never ever gona do hell levels ever again.
 
This is some things to look at based on the op's thread, which is population.

People like this game for the challenge. I know I came back after trying every new game ever, and they all are missing something.

I will say I also feel like the xp should be a tad faster, not that I want everything for free and no grinding, but we want casual players to not feel alienated.

Another thing you gotta look at is how to bring people into a game thats dated, graphically. What advertising is happening, what word of mouth is going on, and when we do get new people what is the first things they see.

Personally some of the friends ive invited to join are turned away at the communitys forums. Just something to think about.
 
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