Account Drive 2013?

This argument is drumming up a lot of interest. Take it to tells!

Scaling Codices of Power so the first one is shorter than the next seems to be a useful suggestion and easy enough to implement to curb this giant wall thate people talk about.

Xenocida: If you start with a tank/healer box and work your way up to 65 by duo'ing and the occassional group, you could get into a raiding guild pretty easily with the healer.
 
Boehm said:
You have no clue how I played then. So how about stop making shit up.
Click to expand...

I know tons of people who have made it to tier 13 w/ 62 tomes and a supreme as a casual player.

tons of them...................
 
also...

dear new people : most "end game" people will tell you they had the most fun doing lower end content and watching their character progress. The only time you really enjoy the game (in my opinion) is after you have invested a little bit of time into your character.

DO NOT TRY TO RUSH TO THE "END GAME" YOU WILL ONLY GET BURNED OUT AND NEVER ENJOY THE GAME.
 
Actually Xenocida,

Progressing your toon is hellish good fun and there are plenty who can help you along the way. PM me ingame if you need help (Eleazer/Nuchre). You do need patience and not behave like a dick.

Lower tier raiding is probably the best bit of the game especially if you join a mid/high tier game and you gear up rapidly.

At tier 9+ there is a lot of angst as 3 or 4 guilds are fighting tooth and nail for every piece o content. That's in the far future for you.

If you want to be in the top 10 in 6 weeks find another game, if not enjoy what can be a very satisfying ride but be aware there is much disappointment in the game as well as triumph and waiting for a key spawn or item can be very character building.

Good luck if you continue the path.
 
Nebi said:
Absolutely if you seriously plan on playing in the "end" game.


You will seriously have a long long road ahead of you. You wont be there for about another year and thats playing a lot.


there are some new players but not many. You will enjoy a lot of nights of lfg and not finding a group. You will have this issue at low levels and it only gets worse once you hit 65.

-------------------
I dont want to bash the server by talking like this to a new player but honestly its the truth.
Click to expand...

My god Deein, put on your salesman hat! We don't want to scare all the new players away!

Let me fix your quote:

Nebi said:
Just like Everquest live, if you want to reach 'end game' you will have to play towards it. SoD's raid system let's you start working toward end game with Tier 1-13 raid and six man content, as well as solo character progression.

There is quite a lot of content in SoD, and this is a good thing! Many of us have played for years and still enjoy the game. With some time, investment, and fun you can absolutely reach and enjoy end game, as I have. Additionally, we have active Devs working on the game, so it is entirely possible that once you reach end game a new expansion tier will be implemented to keep the fun rolling!


There are some new players and we are always looking for more. You will enjoy a lot of nights playing SoD. If you cannot find a group, know that you are allowed to two box so you will never go without being able to progress.

-------------------
I love this server, and don't mind offering any advice you may need!
Click to expand...

Call me an honest optimist!
 
Last edited:
Nebi said:
I know tons of people who have made it to tier 13 w/ 62 tomes and a supreme as a casual player.

tons of them...................
Click to expand...

I think we were actually pretty casual (in comparison) until we joined FWF. I don't remember Vell being too hardcore until he decided to farm a supreme to keep up with caster dps and keep a raid spot in a guild that had like 30 humans in it. Not to take away from either of your arguments in this thread but it does really take a lot of cave-dwelling to get enough exp and gear to play with the upper end of SoD. Especially when there are some many other outlets to play games that offer more instant gratification.
 
One thing that I think would help is more content for new 65s to help them gear up. New 65s should practically be having tier 0-2 gear thrown at them. This type of content should be pretty easy to do with a few 65s and would help them get some decent gear.

Progression in this game should be like a pyramid. At the lowest level, there would be a huge amount of content and it should be very easy to get to tier 3 or so as a new 65. Just from doing easy quests, bounties, tmaps and cmal (please add more cmal like zones btw! they are amazing for new players). I personally think it would be amazing if some old world zones got the cmal treatment or at least had some decent no drop items added to the loot tables for the named mobs. I don't think anyone would have anything against more 'welfare' gear for new 65s.

Also this idea may be terrible but maybe even have bonus xp for grouping with level 65s with less then X AAs. It would make groups actually want to bring a new dude to get that extra bonus xp, especially if it doesn't gimp their group.
 
Bloog, while what you are saying has a bit of merit, these options already exist. Buyable gear is so powerful. I understand that new players don't often have the money to pay for a full set of good gear, but there are options!!

--New players could raid BQ elites and gear up a whole raidforce eventually with pristine drops. (Ikky access quest, as I see it, should be one of your first orders of business after you hit 55)
--Citadel would be a GOLDMINE for droppable/nondroppable items, Thib and others could attest.
--New players could group/raid OG mobs; the sproutari/gatherbot have some nice no drop items and there are plenty of BoE items in zone that are outstanding (especially pristine).
--Basically any high end exp zone could be multigroup'd/raid'd
--CMal as suggested
--Ornate/Combine armor quest

The problem, as I see it, lack of organization. New players might not know these options exist because there is SO much to do. They might not organize well because there isnt much guidance. I dont have a solution.

Your last idea (i think) would just make people box their gimpy alts.
 
i was a very casual player until ikisith came out, i got to 3 codices and t9 by playing maybe 20 hours a week, most of it raiding.

i never really poopsocked except when i got from 10 to 60 tomes and farmed all the 6 mans, which took a few months of 6-8 hrs every day.

now again i'm casual, 20ish hours a week. it was entirely possible to get to the end as a casual, but only if you still relatively kept up with the rest of the pack. you can't do it now, because the rest of the pack has moved way up.
 
bloog said:
One thing that I think would help is more content for new 65s to help them gear up. New 65s should practically be having tier 0-2 gear thrown at them. This type of content should be pretty easy to do with a few 65s and would help them get some decent gear.
Click to expand...

Increase the number of no-drop loots off of tier 1-5mobs as well as the adepts to maybe 5 or 6 items per mob and tweak drop rates accordingly - everyone funkin loves gear.
 
I still think that all of the tier 1-2 raid mobs should have their items be no-drop and have like a 1-2 day respawn timer. Is a sudden influx of crappy tier 1-2 items really going to break the game for level 65s? I say give them the chance to kill these mobs any time because we can expect most players to be fairly casual.

The amount of loot that drops per mob is fine but for new players, they don't have the tools to track mobs 24/7 (or the desire). Really anything to help new players stay interested once they reach 65 is a good thing.

Also treasure maps are incredibly boring. They are a great mechanic but they could really use some more interesting waves or even a boss mob that spawns with the chest. They are probably one of the best ways to gear up a new players though.

Also I was thinking, maybe in the main quest it should introduce players to both bounty hunting and treasure maps. Maybe one of the 8 people you have to talk to could include the head bounty hunter guy in thurgadin and maybe some 'master treasure hunter' guy. That way at least new players will know about this content.
 
bloog said:
Also treasure maps are incredibly boring. They are a great mechanic but they could really use some more interesting waves or even a boss mob that spawns with the chest. They are probably one of the best ways to gear up a new players though
Click to expand...

I agree with the boss monster thing. Rather than a random but at least harder chest spawn, I think a random boss monster would be much more interesting.
 
also make treasure map items expable, that sounds like a neat thing and i like expable things

gives newer players double bonus for their grinding time.
 
The amount of exp you get from doing maps is a joke. It should be increased dramatically. It is also silly that you get more exp doing very east maps vs doing easy maps.
 
Kedrin said:
The amount of exp you get from doing maps is a joke. It should be increased dramatically. It is also silly that you get more exp doing very east maps vs doing easy maps.
Click to expand...

Emaps if the entire group is under 63 or 62 are exp explosions, can confirm, did quite a bit on my toons leveling. Also, though this is probably less applicable these days due to lack of population at the tier, using the Vah questline as a leveling/gearing tool was amazing and I highly advocate it for anyone approaching 65. Particularly for the first time.
 
When I was first starting on this server in earnest I ended up spending almost 2 weeks scavenging in Athica getting gold so I could twink myself enough to solo lower level content without dieing all the time. Because groups were hard to come by, and when there were people on in my level range alot of the time they were just camping /checking adept spawns (adept twinks are the worst!). Though I eventually made it up to 60ish on my monk I ended up losing interest soon after, as I found my ability to get good groups at 65 was possibly even less than 20-50.

I don't really know how to solve the issues with retention, but I think it will revolve primarily around 3 issues:

Detailed mechanics introductions:
I can't tell you how many people I saw in the way to 65(new players) that had no idea how some of the core mechanics of SOD worked, like the /style system. MOP, The trade lists, mailing, reputation, etc. The lack of proper technical introductions to SOD's unique mechanics is kind of appalling to be honest.

Leveling 'guides'/'lanes'
Though having so many zones to potentially level at is great, without scouring the depths of the wiki in detail it can be difficult to know where to go or what to fight especially when you consider the amount of zones reworked, containing content much higher or harder than their Vanilla counterparts. Zones like the 5-20 zone(name escapes me at the moment) in the Newport Sewers would be amazingand a huge step in the right direction. More zones like that, and it wouldn't require that many(in my opinion), would go A LONG way in helping new players acquaint themselves with SOD and having some meaningful item progression will help people especially in the 15-45 range, I think. Outright removal or just slight tweaking of newbie quests that already exist in the 1-15 range would also help. Questlines like the woodelf rogue quests are fucking terrible and require an insane amount of time for incredibly weak payoff. The first time I did it I think it took me 4-6 hours to get through it, and the reward was literally worse than soft leather.

Improved Itemization for levels 1-65
Yes, we all know there are ALOT of items in the 1-65 range. However pretty much everything thats better than crafted stuff is only acquirable by people at 65+(save a few items). This I think is a holdover (and a bad one) from vanilla EQ. improved itemization would go hand in hand with new zone/dungeons for 1-65, as this would give developers an opportunity to make some sense of itemization in general(upgrade pathways, etc similar to the high-end raiding content available now). A serious look at how/why item level restrictions and no-drop or bound items exists I think would also help, in the absence of a greater attempt to correct the 1-65 grind as I said.

Anyway, just my 2 cents really. I realize there are many more issues I didn't address but I feel like these few are important for new player retention.
 
One problem I see with SoD design is the ever increasing gap between new players and established players. When the gap increases, there are fewer opportunities for new players and established players to interact. Less interaction with other players inevitably leads to boredom with the game.

Most of SoD's improvements come in the form of increasing opportunities for progression. While more progression opportunities for higher tier players keeps these players playing, it has the negative effect of increasing the time and commitment it takes for new players to interact meaningfully with upper-tier players. When more zones are introduced into the game, it opens up new opportunities for progression while simultaneously spreading the player-base out over a larger world. This again can exacerbate player isolation.

Most aspects of SoD's design specifically guard entry to upper tiers:
1. all upper-tier items are no-drop, and therefore must be achieved through a specific model of progression
2. Tier 8+ content is generally designed to regulate access to only a certain tier of player, as your friends cannot allow you access simply by beating up the mobs for you.
3. Tier 8+ content regularly requires keys, flags and the like, which also enforces the hard-line on tier entry.

Some improvements to the game have been created in order to bridge the tier divide and introduce alterative opportunities for progression:

1. Instanced encounters which benefit multiple tiers of character (treasure maps)
2. Tier-ignoring zones (Nadox)
3. Non-standard progression paths (tradeskills, casinos)

I think these altanative forms of progression are good for the game, but the benefit that can be gained from any of these mechanics is quite limited. After all, no one's getting rich fast by fletching quivers or fishing (after tier 6, the game cuts off the option to buy any useful gear, anyway).

I guess my point is, SoD is generally designed in such a way that the options for player interaction are limited by the designers and enforced by its GMs. While this goal has its advantages, it has negative consequences as well. The primary negative consequences, I think, is that players (all players, not just lower-tier players) spend a lot of time isolated and with nothing fun to do.
 
quote duncandun:
"When I was first starting on this server in earnest I ended up spending almost 2 weeks scavenging in Athica getting gold so I could twink myself enough to solo lower level content without dieing all the time."
Level ~10 Orcs in L'Fay drop PLAT and gear worth PLAT.
Boxing a healer (preferably a Druid) helps,to the point trivializing the game.

quote duncandun:
"Because groups were hard to come by"
Sadly thats true for lower levels,again boxing easily solves this problem.

quote duncandun:
"Though I eventually made it up to 60ish on my monk I ended up losing interest soon after, as I found my ability to get good groups at 65 was possibly even less than 20-50."
Either you're 55 or 65 to get groups but "60ish" is awful for gettiing groups,either you're too high or too low.If you had a boxed healer you could have started your own groups your monk being able to tank some.

quote duncandun:
"I can't tell you how many people I saw in the way to 65(new players) that had no idea how some of the core mechanics of SOD worked, like the /style system. MOP, The trade lists, mailing, reputation, etc. The lack of proper technical introductions to SOD's unique mechanics is kind of appalling to be honest.:
The /style system even has an ingame help built in.
Yeah,the MoP sucks badly and certainly turns new players away,no idea what this crap should
add to the game,with my established chars who have gate necks I hardly us it at all.
I agree,in game help is mostly non-existant,but not a big deal,imho,that's what the Wiki is for.

quote duncandun:
"...some meaningful item progression will help people especially in the 15-45 range..."
These levels fly by so fast,who cares.With boxing you hardly need at any gear at all below 55.

quote duncandun:
"Yes, we all know there are ALOT of items in the 1-65 range. However pretty much everything thats better than crafted stuff is only acquirable by people at 65+(save a few items)."
my *55* box,all acquired by the chars themselves and no hand downs from 65s,even more this
box collected most of the money for a *225k* charm for my 65 main:
http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=melhdur
http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=melport
(note,not a single piece adept gear :) )
Took me ~ half a year,ok,playing almost daily for several hours.

quote duncandun:
"I realize there are many more issues "
Remember the server is FREE,and what issues,live EQ had more with unfinished expansions released,bugs which didnt get fixed ever,huge downtimes on patchdays(and the days after :) ).
All in all SoD is incredible good,much better balanced than live and content to keep one entertained for years.
Its the only MMORPG I would play at all,**** all these commercial MMORPGs with their
disgusting item shops where not skill or time you put in the game matters but *rl cash*.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom