mechkl
Dalayan Elder
they could just take enchancters off the 2hand version
Fight Club - Enchanters are Overpowered
- Thread starter Nebi
- Start date
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
i dont think enchanters were even really meant to be on the sword, it was more of marza not implementing his idea for an ench only weapon. Tbh soul shepard always seemed the most enchanter like to me, its an item with a clicky that gives a buff to boost your groups dps, enchanters are a class that is designed around casting buffs to boost dps
sheer1
Dalayan Elder
an enchanter's dps scales off the players in the raid. when you have a full raid of high tier characters going pretty much all out for dps, the enchanter's dps will directly reflect this.
most fights dont offer the opportunity for this scaling either since enchanters have other jobs to do.
id agree that bringing a second enchanter over whatever your lowest tier dps would be (lolbeastlord) is prefered for shared mind, curses, and maybe the leftover casters to aod. but that second enchanter's personal dps would be next to nothing. This would be most beneficial for an encounter where the enchanter has a job to do throughout the fight, and the second one could focus on boosting dps.
also the effort for an chanter to parse 1400+, compared to the effort for some other classes is night and day. if we want to talk about how overpowered a class's dps is lets check out these afk/hit 2 buttons classes that still do 1400+ regularly.
edit: yea what they said about enchanters and 4.3 sword. since the drawback doesnt effect enchanters it is sort of broken with how AoD works
most fights dont offer the opportunity for this scaling either since enchanters have other jobs to do.
id agree that bringing a second enchanter over whatever your lowest tier dps would be (lolbeastlord) is prefered for shared mind, curses, and maybe the leftover casters to aod. but that second enchanter's personal dps would be next to nothing. This would be most beneficial for an encounter where the enchanter has a job to do throughout the fight, and the second one could focus on boosting dps.
also the effort for an chanter to parse 1400+, compared to the effort for some other classes is night and day. if we want to talk about how overpowered a class's dps is lets check out these afk/hit 2 buttons classes that still do 1400+ regularly.
edit: yea what they said about enchanters and 4.3 sword. since the drawback doesnt effect enchanters it is sort of broken with how AoD works
CharmCitysKing
Dalayan Elder
The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.
taosanterior
Dalayan Elder
Boon and somatic stack, for extra melee dps madness. So 2 enchanters does provide more overhaste.
As for enchanter DPS in general, I would think it would be a bigger issue if they could put up these numbers while also crowd controlling, runing, debuffing, vexing etc. But if you do that you are losing a good chunk of the DPS. You have to go pretty hard to get numbers like that, same with every class. And enchanters have no way of dropping their own aggro, unlike every other DPS class except mages I guess.
I don't really feel like digging through parses right now, but in general when I get to fully DPS on my enchanter, the rangers, wizards, and me all end up at roughly the same numbers, depending on the fight and crits. I don't have a diabolic though, and we haven't had a good necro in a while either, so let that change your opinion however you see fit.
Also, Flamelord Koltar is a horrible example to use - go ask Galsan for one of his parses and you'll see that 1589 dps is nothing.
the biggest buffs to enchanters came via buffs to other classes. example: /cm autofire was a massive buff to enchanter dps
if played well and coordinated well, they are incredibly powerful, and we are talking about an outlier character. there used to be a cleric who solo healed the melee group, while out-dpsing every melee in that group. it's difficult to make any meaningful points based off a few parses. they see great results from great setup and coordination and smart play, and that is good design.
if played well and coordinated well, they are incredibly powerful, and we are talking about an outlier character. there used to be a cleric who solo healed the melee group, while out-dpsing every melee in that group. it's difficult to make any meaningful points based off a few parses. they see great results from great setup and coordination and smart play, and that is good design.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Going to hitch my wagon to the "why would you nerf an underplayed class" bus. I think that it would be prudent game design to track class activity and buff underplayed classes and nerf any class that becomes excessively dominant (with buffing being generally preferential to nerfs). I call this the Mario Kart school of thought, wherein those in the lead are given green shells and those trailing the pack are given Stars and Gold Mushrooms. If anyone steps to far out of line the blue shell comes out. By keeping the pack together you get more interaction (instead of Beastlords sitting in Athica, poor Beastlords) which is kind of the entire freaking point of multiplayer/MMO gaming. Amirite or amirite?
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
Adalus --- DMG: 351387 (5.35%) @ 722 dps (693 sdps)
Adalus --- DMG: 348602 (5.28%) @ 617 dps (611 sdps)
Adalus --- DMG: 299932 (4.53%) @ 607 dps (584 sdps)
Adalus --- DMG: 349672 (5.28%) @ 665 dps (657 sdps)
Grinkles --- DMG: 500799 (8.07%) @ 1054 dps (1033 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 590849 (9.46%) @ 1172 dps (1143 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 372641 (6.94%) @ 717 dps (699 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 683661 (11.26%) @ 1601 dps (1519 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 686186 (10.85%) @ 1343 dps (1338 sdps)
A bunch of numbers from rujik, a fight that requires the enchanter to mez shit for about 20ish percent of the fight. I dont think deein would have made this thread if tevinter was consistently doing Adalus level dps (no offense). Enchanters take more coordination to DPS than any other class, as well as probably being the hardest DPS to box effectively. But they are really good in raid/6 man setting, so why are the underplayed? Because they have the worst scaling in a duo/solo situation. Personally I dont see this as a problem, but its the reason why so few people play the class. Playing a melee/healer or a class that can solo kite or solo w/o a healer is typically more effecient and much less effort without the threat of having a monster fuck you in the face once every 9~ minutes. Also its super fucking frustrating playing the game with people who break mezzes. You die when other people fuck up, moreso than any other class. Tanks have to worry about maybe 5 or 6 people and RNG fucking them over ( healers and getting 1 rounded by a mob lol), Enchanters have to worry about 17 other people in a raid potentially killing them by fucking up.
There is a lot of things that make raiding on an enchanter pretty annoying:
1. The enchanter dies during a trash pull, 17 other people wait for their death fatigue and/or mana
2. The enchanter dies early during a raid boss and the raid wipes with 0 chance of salvaging because no dampening/curses/crowd control.
3. Melees asking for GoE 24/7 because they die tanking shit or pulling or whatever the fuck
4. Mezzing certain things (thaz water wing) is just fucking awful. Prime enchanter/abyss/monstrosity/conglom style mezzing is perfectly cool and fine. Having to remezz mobs or using relic because they have high MR is fine. Mezzing 4 motherfucking shitty ass magic resistant half are white con punk ass bitch idiot golems in thaz water wing makes you want to quit the game. Fuck those golems and fuck thaz water wing, please delete them from the game.
Theres some other lame things about enchanters too, like the fact that there is so few of them it is hard to compare yourself to another enchanter, or find out what you do different, or why they use X item instead of Y etc etc. Or what spells they use on certain fights, cause spell gems are super contested. On a typical raid 3/8 of your spell gems are curses, if the mob is a construct make that 4/8. Lets assume the mob isnt a construct though, and you are an enchanter w/o class bracer. You need 3 spell gems for curses, 1 for tashanian, 1 for frog dot. Thats 5 spell gems used up right there for literally every encounter in the game. Now for the last 3 you get to choose between: Raid rune, single target rune, Mez, Boon, Somatic Bond, AoD, Shout of agony, vex(does this even work?), catatonia (700 mana, a metric fuckton of aggro, 3min 24sec cooldown, and is only really useful in spires, and maybe taeshlin golems?), charm, construct curse, mana drain, root. Having to demem debuffs after you cast them to load something else can be tricky sometimes, and not everyone's definition of fun. Also, relic nuke doing that stupid knockback mob moving thing really shouldnt exist imo.
I could write more about the enchanter class, but im not going to. Hearing from some other enchanter dudes would be nice, but i doubt any actually play the game enough to care about this thread that some guy made because the best enchanter did real good dps
Adalus --- DMG: 348602 (5.28%) @ 617 dps (611 sdps)
Adalus --- DMG: 299932 (4.53%) @ 607 dps (584 sdps)
Adalus --- DMG: 349672 (5.28%) @ 665 dps (657 sdps)
Grinkles --- DMG: 500799 (8.07%) @ 1054 dps (1033 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 590849 (9.46%) @ 1172 dps (1143 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 372641 (6.94%) @ 717 dps (699 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 683661 (11.26%) @ 1601 dps (1519 sdps)
Tevinter --- DMG: 686186 (10.85%) @ 1343 dps (1338 sdps)
A bunch of numbers from rujik, a fight that requires the enchanter to mez shit for about 20ish percent of the fight. I dont think deein would have made this thread if tevinter was consistently doing Adalus level dps (no offense). Enchanters take more coordination to DPS than any other class, as well as probably being the hardest DPS to box effectively. But they are really good in raid/6 man setting, so why are the underplayed? Because they have the worst scaling in a duo/solo situation. Personally I dont see this as a problem, but its the reason why so few people play the class. Playing a melee/healer or a class that can solo kite or solo w/o a healer is typically more effecient and much less effort without the threat of having a monster fuck you in the face once every 9~ minutes. Also its super fucking frustrating playing the game with people who break mezzes. You die when other people fuck up, moreso than any other class. Tanks have to worry about maybe 5 or 6 people and RNG fucking them over ( healers and getting 1 rounded by a mob lol), Enchanters have to worry about 17 other people in a raid potentially killing them by fucking up.
There is a lot of things that make raiding on an enchanter pretty annoying:
1. The enchanter dies during a trash pull, 17 other people wait for their death fatigue and/or mana
2. The enchanter dies early during a raid boss and the raid wipes with 0 chance of salvaging because no dampening/curses/crowd control.
3. Melees asking for GoE 24/7 because they die tanking shit or pulling or whatever the fuck
4. Mezzing certain things (thaz water wing) is just fucking awful. Prime enchanter/abyss/monstrosity/conglom style mezzing is perfectly cool and fine. Having to remezz mobs or using relic because they have high MR is fine. Mezzing 4 motherfucking shitty ass magic resistant half are white con punk ass bitch idiot golems in thaz water wing makes you want to quit the game. Fuck those golems and fuck thaz water wing, please delete them from the game.
Theres some other lame things about enchanters too, like the fact that there is so few of them it is hard to compare yourself to another enchanter, or find out what you do different, or why they use X item instead of Y etc etc. Or what spells they use on certain fights, cause spell gems are super contested. On a typical raid 3/8 of your spell gems are curses, if the mob is a construct make that 4/8. Lets assume the mob isnt a construct though, and you are an enchanter w/o class bracer. You need 3 spell gems for curses, 1 for tashanian, 1 for frog dot. Thats 5 spell gems used up right there for literally every encounter in the game. Now for the last 3 you get to choose between: Raid rune, single target rune, Mez, Boon, Somatic Bond, AoD, Shout of agony, vex(does this even work?), catatonia (700 mana, a metric fuckton of aggro, 3min 24sec cooldown, and is only really useful in spires, and maybe taeshlin golems?), charm, construct curse, mana drain, root. Having to demem debuffs after you cast them to load something else can be tricky sometimes, and not everyone's definition of fun. Also, relic nuke doing that stupid knockback mob moving thing really shouldnt exist imo.
I could write more about the enchanter class, but im not going to. Hearing from some other enchanter dudes would be nice, but i doubt any actually play the game enough to care about this thread that some guy made because the best enchanter did real good dps