Please Adjust Something About the Endgame

[noteisley]

Yeah the quiver system seems like it would be pretty annoying but then again rangers are stupidly good dps so I guess it's a trade-off (although that doesn't mean the arrow system is good).

It can get a little dicey but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. I just destroy a lot of arrows. For all the complaining Kedrin does, fletching change was a net dps increase... just an annoying one.

I could point out a number of inaccuracies/counterpoints here, but I'm tired of it.

I think nerfs hit harder than buffs. Undoubtedly they did for my character, and BST/Monks.

You keep saying "monks." What you meant to say is Lleoc. Beastlords took a hit, sure. The hit wizards took is called vah back, so YOU took a hit. The Crit thing is what it is, and it ain't much, don't have to be a rocket surgeon to realize that.

From our talks, I think that you don't possess a great knowledge of other classes, their buffs, and what it meant to them. I think you are well intentioned, and I hate posting in threads like this these days, but if you actually managed to convince the devs this was true, it would certainly be the end of our guild, well me for sure at least. If i wanted to kill easy things, I would. Marza's work is masterfully balanced and the thrill of slowly learning and then beating them account for some of my best memories in the game.

 

[Silosobi]

Channeling was a ~7% nerf to my characters dps (excluding PBAE/rains which i just about never do).

I could keep argueing it point by point but I'm tired of it and don't care enough if players think things are good as is.

I always thought the fun of T13 was the challenging mechanics, and I think if they died a bit faster they would still be 90% as hard because big numbers usually isn't what wipes us. It also might challenge us to do hardmode or VZ which would be way more fun to me than seeing a mostly maxed out t13 guild that wont even try to kill blazewind/taeshlin regularly. I guess we had better players in old FWF, but I don't think SF players are bad, I think they represent a pretty normal SOD raid only with way more gear/tomes/charms, so the fact that they cant/wont do certain mobs is alarming to me.

 

[mechkl]

I always thought the fun of T13 was the challenging mechanics, and I think if they died a bit faster they would still be 90% as hard because big numbers usually isn't what wipes us. It also might challenge us to do hardmode or VZ which would be way more fun to me than seeing a mostly maxed out t13 guild that wont even try to kill blazewind/taeshlin regularly. I guess we had better players in old FWF, but I don't think SF players are bad, I think they represent a pretty normal SOD raid only with way more gear/tomes/charms, so the fact that they cant/wont do certain mobs is alarming to me.

pretty solidly agree with solo here.

i feel like the staff wants to keep this game going for awhile to come with the micro increases, which i completely understand and soudns awesome. But at the same time, whats the point if no one is playing?

 

[sheer1]

paraphrased actual things said during SF's raid yesterday.

me: we need to go try <hard unkilled mob> again.

anonymous person: sure if you want to beat your head against that mob all night go ahead, i don't want to do that.

It was a perfect microcosm of why nothing you guys post in here about stuff being too hard has any merit, and progress will always be limited by people's willingness to actually try new things.

 

[Dinadass]

If you were talking about either VZ or hardmode Blaze it's tough to be enthusiastic about either... It seemed like we had the strats more or less worked out in FWF but simply didn't have close to the dps/mana to pull either off. Granted I was only around for a couple nights of VZ attempts so maybe you guys went back more recently and picked up something new.

 

[Nebi]

If you were talking about either VZ or hardmode Blaze it's tough to be enthusiastic about either... It seemed like we had the strats more or less worked out in FWF but simply didn't have close to the dps/mana to pull either off. Granted I was only around for a couple nights of VZ attempts so maybe you guys went back more recently and picked up something new.

Weird thing is that with the added dps / better characters nobody has tried it since.

 

[Dinadass]

Have you attempted either mob? I've been around for both, and in each case even with a raid that was minimally boxed (just Bango and Eisley boxing iirc) it wasn't a case of "Damn, if we had used CotB we could have pulled that off!" It was more like "wtf healers are oom and the mob is at 70%"

Add in the fact that this time around the dev who made the fights won't be there to watch our progress and tweak them accordingly and it's pretty hard to be too excited for them. It's still probably worth the time to attempt them just to see how close they are now, but if the current guild isn't even killing all the t13 targets I'd think those are higher priority.

 

[Cinny]

I always thought the fun of T13 was the challenging mechanics, and I think if they died a bit faster they would still be 90% as hard because big numbers usually isn't what wipes us. It also might challenge us to do hardmode or VZ which would be way more fun to me than seeing a mostly maxed out t13 guild that wont even try to kill blazewind/taeshlin regularly. I guess we had better players in old FWF, but I don't think SF players are bad, I think they represent a pretty normal SOD raid only with way more gear/tomes/charms, so the fact that they cant/wont do certain mobs is alarming to me.

This is the point that stands out to me that is the most indicating of there needing to be change along with this point here

we need to go try <hard unkilled mob> again.

anonymous person: sure if you want to beat your head against that mob all night go ahead, i don't want to do that.

NOBODY wants to beat there head against a mob they have already learned the strat for just because the mob is unreasonably hard for the reward. No one ever will other than those just seeking to kill time which only happens once your character is top notch.

 

[Dinadass]

This is the point that stands out to me that is the most indicating of there needing to be change along with this point here


NOBODY wants to beat there head against a mob they have already learned the strat for just because the mob is unreasonably hard for the reward. No one ever will other than those just seeking to kill time which only happens once your character is top notch.

That's Eisley's whole point... These fights were designed for exactly that type of guild/player... Those with essentially nowhere else to go because they've conquered everything else available but still want to log in and kill stuff.

 

[Cinny]

That's Eisley's whole point... These fights were designed for exactly that type of guild/player... Those with essentially nowhere else to go because they've conquered everything else available but still want to log in and kill stuff.

My thought was these were designed be to the next step in the chain of raiding not the o look im pretty well done raiding because i have everything lets go spend hours on a boss that we might or might not kill.

Have you attempted either mob? I've been around for both, and in each case even with a raid that was minimally boxed (just Bango and Eisley boxing iirc) it wasn't a case of "Damn, if we had used CotB we could have pulled that off!" It was more like "wtf healers are oom and the mob is at 70%"

Add in the fact that this time around the dev who made the fights won't be there to watch our progress and tweak them accordingly and it's pretty hard to be too excited for them. It's still probably worth the time to attempt them just to see how close they are now, but if the current guild isn't even killing all the t13 targets I'd think those are higher priority.

Im confused by this post because it appears in one case you are arguing the side of this content is just fine and the other is healers are oom at 70% of boss hp. Maybe im just missing what you were attempting to say in these posts? anyway no point in stealing the thread to explain that.

Main point being until there is a guild attempting to naturally progress into this content again we wont really know if its ok or tuned a bit to hard. The point that shining force which is a lot of very high and near to maxed out toons are unwilling to attempt certain bosses because they are to hard isnt a good sign.

 

[Dinadass]

One post was talking about t13 targets, the other about t14.

Edit- I thought your post was referencing t13 stuff, I missed that you quoted Reehs' thing about a hard unkilled (presumably t14) mob, my bad.

Also I realize that Reehs was probably actually talking about KaraKadar so this whole derail is likely pointless.

 

[sheer1]

stuff about t14 mobs that doesnt matter

what mob i was talking about is irrelevant which is why i didnt put a name in there. its the mentality of not wanting to try new/hard things.


edit: this is a dumb thread that is going in a big circle. good luck trying to make everything easier than it already is.

 

[noteisley]

Reehs was talking about Kara'Kadar. When he brought it up I made it clear it is the current goal, but yeah the immediate response was tepid. I mean this whole thing and current mentality is our own private problem, and I take the blame for being a ghost of a guild leader for quite awhile. It is my responsibility and I have work to do yet but Solo thinking those fights were so hard now may stem from that. Perhaps a humorous coincidence that Solo cites Blazewind and then 6 hours after he posts it, we are looting it.

VZ and HM BW are a whole other beast and do not apply to this thread in any way.

 

[enasc]

paraphrased actual things said during SF's raid yesterday.

me: we need to go try <hard unkilled mob> again.

anonymous person: sure if you want to beat your head against that mob all night go ahead, i don't want to do that.

It was a perfect microcosm of why nothing you guys post in here about stuff being too hard has any merit, and progress will always be limited by people's willingness to actually try new things.

Just me, and perhaps I'm not the most vocal guild member, but I am very much looking forward to fighting that monster.

I, for one, would much rather face bash against hard and fun content than farm (easy content here).

 

[Silosobi]

Perhaps a humorous coincidence that Solo cites Blazewind and then 6 hours after he posts it, we are looting it.

Ironic indeed, but we barely scraped by with most of the raid dieing, I and most healers were OOM after COTB, Taesh ears, most of our DPS has Vah Back.

IDK I guess the question is not is it possible. The question is should it require a raid that averages a supreme charm, 70 tomes, and a vah back?

As I've said before I think these fights are fun because of mechanics not giant gearchecks, and I think they would remain very challenging even with 20% less HP.

Look at Sharn'Ree. Definitely NOT a giant gearcheck, yet it remains one of the most difficult fights in the game.

 

[noteisley]

Blazewind with 20% less hp would be laughably easy. You are talking about millions off hp off a mob that we typically wipe to sub-5%.

Anyways, this has been beaten into the ground and is going nowhere.

Some may be on your side. Some may be on my side. But it seems clear to me that no consensus can be made.

 

[Moraelintz]

Blazewind with 20% less hp would be laughably easy. You are talking about millions off hp off a mob that we typically wipe to sub-5%.

Anyways, this has been beaten into the ground and is going nowhere.

Some may be on your side. Some may be on my side. But it seems clear to me that no consensus can be made.

It may not need a 20% overall decrease in hps maybe just in last phase.

 

[Silosobi]

20% was just to make a point. And 20% would mean it died at 2% during that last phase. We wipe all the time before 2% because people cant do puddles/hit vortexes/miss heals/etc. Really the fights should just have certain phases shortened aka blazewind last 10%, that rujik 10% thing that seems to be just a "use your COTB here" mechanic, I have not done taesh recently enough to say, it actually used to be less of a gearcheck than the others but then marza changed some stuff.