Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
I don't think most of the posts on this forum have a purpose.
Sabatons of the Murk
- Thread starter ynnear
- Start date
taosanterior
Dalayan Elder
Where's chillville when you need it
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
SERIOUS POST ALERT. Lets compare the boots from murkwater to the boots from NZ.
Ger'Valla, Pillars of Frigid Defiance
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: FEET
AC: 46
Effect: Frozen Aura (Kick Proc, 26.7%)
Skill Mod: Block +5
STR: +25 STA: +50 CHA: +20 HP: +200 MANA: +200
SV COLD: +20 SV MAGIC: +40
Flowing Thought: +2
Damage Reduction: +5
Aggression: +5%
WT: 20.0 Size:LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty
murkwater boots
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: FEET
AC: 44
Focus Effect: Affliction Enhancement VII
Effect: Affliction (Kick Proc, 20%)
Skill Mod: 2H Slashing +10
STR: +12 STA: +12 CHA: +25 WIS: +18 INT: +18 AGI: +12 HP: +190 MANA: +170
SV DISEASE: +40
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 4.0 Size:SMALL
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty
For killing a much more difficult mob than MW, in terms of number check and strategy, a warrior gains 2 armor class, 10 hit points, 13 strength, and better resists. The block mod on NZ boots only works when using a shield IIRC, but holding aggro with a shield on a warrior is difficult, and the proposed change to make the MW boots a 20% chance hate proc, MW boots would be the favorite to wear with a shield. But they also lose 5 charisma, 18 int, 18 wis, 12 agi. The stamina does not matter, because between tanks that are close to on tier for NZ such as Marthog, Ovisha, Xerokine, Kraizik, Ratkon, Lleamod, Versul, Grimar, they would all be hilariously over stamina cap even if not wearing NZ boots. The only tank who seemed to struggle in terms of stamina that i could find was mousekon. These tanks also ALL cap DR without wearing NZ boots (except versul, who would cap it by wearing a nautilus instead of a 2hander.) The only tank who seemed to struggle in terms of stamina that i could find was mousekon, who is overtier for NZ anyways. The above mentioned tanks also are far overcap on Aggresion, even without wearing NZ boots. Sabatons of the murk also seem to provide the only Affliction enhancement available for Warriors, which boost the already absurd power of Galeforce.
When it comes down to the proc, the NZ boot proc is unusable in more situations due to it being an AoE proc, however it is generally a better proc. When it comes down to raw DPS (AKA THREAT) to a single target, assuming perfect RNG(AKA proccing at exactly 20%/26.7% rate, never missing kick. Factoring in missed kicks would make MW boots slightly better due to the dot effect, but who cares that much) and hitting kick once every 4 seconds. Murk boots are roughly 3.17~ DPS base, NZ boots are about 4.38~ SINGLE TARGET DPS base, but have the benefit of being able to generate threat on other targets in applicable situations. The proposed change to the MW boots would make them a 3 DPS proc(a downgrade from their current form) but also add quite a lot of hate(about 10 raw hate per second). This would make MW boots a clear winner in any single target situation.
NZ boots would still remain a solid upgrade for Paladins and Shadowknights due to the fact that they benefit from the Flowing Thought, Block Mod, and +30 Mana and the fact that proc does not matter for them. However, the change proposed by this thread would make the NZ boots an arguable side grade for warriors. Maybe there is something I am missing, or am not understanding about the request to buff the proc on MW boots, as the boots seem to be in a pretty solid place for warriors (The class the suggested change primarily benefits) in terms of current SoD gear progression. This is even ignoring higher threat boot procs such as the sandals from sorrow, or the Rune proc boots from 4stone queen (if runes work the same way as live, AKA 1 threat per rune point, it'd be 11.67 hate per second on every mob the warrrior is aggro'd on.)
TLDR; Murkwater boots are fine
Ger'Valla, Pillars of Frigid Defiance
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: FEET
AC: 46
Effect: Frozen Aura (Kick Proc, 26.7%)
Skill Mod: Block +5
STR: +25 STA: +50 CHA: +20 HP: +200 MANA: +200
SV COLD: +20 SV MAGIC: +40
Flowing Thought: +2
Damage Reduction: +5
Aggression: +5%
WT: 20.0 Size:LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty
murkwater boots
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: FEET
AC: 44
Focus Effect: Affliction Enhancement VII
Effect: Affliction (Kick Proc, 20%)
Skill Mod: 2H Slashing +10
STR: +12 STA: +12 CHA: +25 WIS: +18 INT: +18 AGI: +12 HP: +190 MANA: +170
SV DISEASE: +40
Recommended level of 65.
WT: 4.0 Size:SMALL
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD
Race: ALL
Slot 1 type 2: empty
For killing a much more difficult mob than MW, in terms of number check and strategy, a warrior gains 2 armor class, 10 hit points, 13 strength, and better resists. The block mod on NZ boots only works when using a shield IIRC, but holding aggro with a shield on a warrior is difficult, and the proposed change to make the MW boots a 20% chance hate proc, MW boots would be the favorite to wear with a shield. But they also lose 5 charisma, 18 int, 18 wis, 12 agi. The stamina does not matter, because between tanks that are close to on tier for NZ such as Marthog, Ovisha, Xerokine, Kraizik, Ratkon, Lleamod, Versul, Grimar, they would all be hilariously over stamina cap even if not wearing NZ boots. The only tank who seemed to struggle in terms of stamina that i could find was mousekon. These tanks also ALL cap DR without wearing NZ boots (except versul, who would cap it by wearing a nautilus instead of a 2hander.) The only tank who seemed to struggle in terms of stamina that i could find was mousekon, who is overtier for NZ anyways. The above mentioned tanks also are far overcap on Aggresion, even without wearing NZ boots. Sabatons of the murk also seem to provide the only Affliction enhancement available for Warriors, which boost the already absurd power of Galeforce.
When it comes down to the proc, the NZ boot proc is unusable in more situations due to it being an AoE proc, however it is generally a better proc. When it comes down to raw DPS (AKA THREAT) to a single target, assuming perfect RNG(AKA proccing at exactly 20%/26.7% rate, never missing kick. Factoring in missed kicks would make MW boots slightly better due to the dot effect, but who cares that much) and hitting kick once every 4 seconds. Murk boots are roughly 3.17~ DPS base, NZ boots are about 4.38~ SINGLE TARGET DPS base, but have the benefit of being able to generate threat on other targets in applicable situations. The proposed change to the MW boots would make them a 3 DPS proc(a downgrade from their current form) but also add quite a lot of hate(about 10 raw hate per second). This would make MW boots a clear winner in any single target situation.
NZ boots would still remain a solid upgrade for Paladins and Shadowknights due to the fact that they benefit from the Flowing Thought, Block Mod, and +30 Mana and the fact that proc does not matter for them. However, the change proposed by this thread would make the NZ boots an arguable side grade for warriors. Maybe there is something I am missing, or am not understanding about the request to buff the proc on MW boots, as the boots seem to be in a pretty solid place for warriors (The class the suggested change primarily benefits) in terms of current SoD gear progression. This is even ignoring higher threat boot procs such as the sandals from sorrow, or the Rune proc boots from 4stone queen (if runes work the same way as live, AKA 1 threat per rune point, it'd be 11.67 hate per second on every mob the warrrior is aggro'd on.)
TLDR; Murkwater boots are fine
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
why would you make any abyss gear better, if anything every item from that zone should be nerfed for where it stands in progression and the quality of the loots.
taosanterior
Dalayan Elder
This post was far too long how can you expect anyone to have a real discussion with that I mean seriously
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
It's called "diminishing returns",every (MMO)RPG I've played to some length suffers(?) from this phenomen.
Do you really want 500 hp loot from T13 mobs?
I guess that would be the appropriate(vaguely,no real idea of the T13 game) reward for their difficulty,but then one could solo walk through the rest of the game.
Seems to be an inherent problem of MMORPGs,time goes by,new zones and expansions are added,some devs feel generous and throw out "uber" loot
occasionally,and the balance which the game might had have in the beginning goes down the drain,all kind of weird,unexpected and unwanted side effects occur.
(But overall SoD made a not too bad job on this,but there are some easily avaioded things where the devs failed badly (sorry),most prominent tradable loot with ~100 hps
from Ikilid expansion making the T1-6/7 raid areas/mobs mostly useless .)
Yes. In places, that seems reasonable. 500 hp will not save someone at T13 if they are bad at playing this game.
I think you're underestimating the damage monsters in this game can do, and how quickly they can do it.
That all said, on the issue of these shoes, I agree with Tev. The shoes seem fine.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
Its not even an issue of diminishing returns. Its just that the NZ boots are a smaller upgrade for warriors than the other classes, who benefit much more from the +5 block mod, +2 FT and +30 mana.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
whats the point of getting loot from VZ if there is nothing to progress on after it?
What's the point in getting any loot at all?
No, VZ would probably not be killed even knowing the loot, and
The point of more loot is a more awesome fomelo! And to look cooler while doing endless farming in some zone full of light blue mobs.
The point of more loot is a more awesome fomelo! And to look cooler while doing endless farming in some zone full of light blue mobs.
