Class Tome Rework

Binsin

Dalayan Elder
Im creating this thread because I believe we all know of 1 or more class tomes that could be different and dont offer any real benefits to the class. My input is the Third Bard Class Tome.

I know I am not the only bard that feels like Quiet Reflection needs to get changed in some way, and I would like to use this post to get some of my ideas for a better third class tome for bards that will effect not only themselves, but their group/raid too, as the bard is supposed to be a beneficial/utility class, i feel this tome needs to match that.

Reflection of Sound - Through practice and talent, the Bard has perfected his art of music allowing his music to bounce off surfaces and reach the ears of his allies over vast distances. Likewise, the Bard is now able to hit enemies with detrimental cords from father away.
rank 1: Increase beneficial song range by x%, detrimental by x%
rank 2: Increase beneficial song range by x%, detrimental by x%
rank 3: Increase beneficial song range by x%, detrimental by x%
rank 4: Increase beneficial song range by x%, detrimental by x%

NOTE - This tome allows the Bard and his allies to benefit, as a lot of bard songs still have a short range even with the Bard AA and bards do not benefit from Range Inc items. I feel there should be a bigger increase from the Ranks 1-2 tomes and 3-4 just from how hard/tedious it might be to finally get one's rank 3/4 class tomes. This is by far my best idea for a new 3rd class tome for bards.

Symphony Of Battle - Notes begin to pour from the bard as he plays a Capriccio that invigorates all nearby allies making them strike harder and faster for a short period of time.
rank 1: The bard gains a new stance, Symphony of Battle, that when used will empower his allies to have increased critical hit(x%)/blast(x%), and increase attack speed by x% (v2) and increased casting speed by x%, this stance lasts 10 seconds and exhausts the bard for 30 minutes.
rank 2: increased critical hit(x%)/blast(x%), and increase attack speed by x% (v2) and increased casting speed by x%, this stance lasts 12 seconds and exhausts the bard for 26 minutes.
rank 3: increased critical hit(x%)/blast(x%), and increase attack speed by x% (v2) and increased casting speed by x%, this stance lasts 15 seconds and exhausts the bard for 20 minutes.
rank 4: increased critical hit(x%)/blast(x%), and increase attack speed by x% (v2) and increased casting speed by x%, this stance lasts 20 seconds and exhausts the bard for 15 minutes.

NOTE - This one is a little more overpowered in my opinion, but is intended to be be a mini vah back that is no where near as strong. I like the idea of gaining a stance that will allow the bard to sacrifice his stamina, but similar to a warrior or monk, I think it should use up about 80% of the bards stamina and not be usable any lower, as this is just an idea, I dont even know if such a stance is possible. if possible, add in a mana drain when this stance is used also. depletes remaining mana.

I'd love to hear other ideas from bards about how to make their third class tome more beneficial to everyone than just the bard.
 
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Even keeping Quiet Reflection but having it do something more than increase the meditation cap.

Quiet Reflection - As the Bard enters a medative trance, notes begin to pour from his body increasing the natural regeneration of them and their allies.
rank 1: Increases overcap Health/Mana/Stamina regen 1% per 6 seconds.
rank 2: Increases overcap Health/Mana/Stamina regen 2% per 6 seconds.
rank 3: Increases overcap Health/Mana/Stamina regen 3% per 6 seconds.
rank 4: Increases overcap Health/Mana/Stamina regen 4% per 6 seconds.

NOTE - emote:As *Name* enters a trance, notes begin to pour from their body. Group Members(Group Wide Only) receive a emote "a melody surrounds you". Out of Combat only.
 
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@Binsin I think you mean "per 6 seconds". A group/raid passive Placid Focus like effect fits the class better. Maybe not the exact mechanic you described, but I like the concept.

Advanced Apiculture is quite likely the worst class tome.

"Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12%. The queen produces upwards of 70 DPS and despawns with her minions."

Is there a serious typo in that description? Just to parse that out:
"Casting [spells you probably don't cast all that often] will summon a queen be at a [really, really low rate]. The queen produces upwards of [lackluster] DPS and despawns [shortly later]."

I think there are lots of interesting and good ideas for Druid tomes floating around. Many of them would be a better replacement, but for the sake of ease and expediency lets just think of changes to Advanced Apiculture that would make it less bad [and cross our fingers that Third tome is healing related]:
1. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee. The queen produces [increases by rank] DPS and despawns with her minions."
-boring, but this tome makes a situational good spell better. not setting the world on fire, but it works.
2. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 25 / 50 / 75 / 100% at the caster's location for the duration of the spell. The queen spawns more bees periodically."
-well that sounds fun. It is like a crappy swarm pet. Probably not much dps but it will look cool and RNG might create a mighty swarm. BEEEEEEEESS!
3. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 10 / 20 / 35 / 50%. The queen casts Royal Jelly on the Druid's group."
-everyone forgets about royal jelly. that stuff is amazing. huge lore / internal consistency win too.
 
@Binsin I think you mean "per 6 seconds". A group/raid passive Placid Focus like effect fits the class better. Maybe not the exact mechanic you described, but I like the concept.

Advanced Apiculture is quite likely the worst class tome.

"Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12%. The queen produces upwards of 70 DPS and despawns with her minions."

Is there a serious typo in that description? Just to parse that out:
"Casting [spells you probably don't cast all that often] will summon a queen be at a [really, really low rate]. The queen produces upwards of [lackluster] DPS and despawns [shortly later]."

I think there are lots of interesting and good ideas for Druid tomes floating around. Many of them would be a better replacement, but for the sake of ease and expediency lets just think of changes to Advanced Apiculture that would make it less bad [and cross our fingers that Third tome is healing related]:
1. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee. The queen produces [increases by rank] DPS and despawns with her minions."
-boring, but this tome makes a situational good spell better. not setting the world on fire, but it works.
2. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 25 / 50 / 75 / 100% at the caster's location for the duration of the spell. The queen spawns more bees periodically."
-well that sounds fun. It is like a crappy swarm pet. Probably not much dps but it will look cool and RNG might create a mighty swarm. BEEEEEEEESS!
3. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 10 / 20 / 35 / 50%. The queen casts Royal Jelly on the Druid's group."
-everyone forgets about royal jelly. that stuff is amazing. huge lore / internal consistency win too.

Honestly that tome should be completely reworked into something that boosts druid healing. It really needs it.
 
Honestly that tome should be completely reworked into something that boosts druid healing. It really needs it.

Oh, I 100% agree that Druids need a healing tome:

I think there are lots of interesting and good ideas for Druid tomes floating around. Many of them would be a better replacement, but for the sake of ease and expediency lets just think of changes to Advanced Apiculture that would make it less bad [and cross our fingers that Third tome is healing related]

I posted a bunch of healing tome ideas in the other thread- check them out. Maybe repeat the least stupid one. Build dynamic synergy.

It would be great if Advanced Apiculture turned into some kind of passive heals thing. It is possibly that I over-tempered my suggestions above, so lets try again:

1. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee. The queen produces [increases by rank] DPS, casts an Archon's Hammer like spell [more frequently with each rank], and despawns with her minions."
-this tome makes a situational good spell into a great spell. passive healing certainly wouldn't hurt druids and the queen bee would be a Zevfeer's Theft in pet form (so not unheard of)
2. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 25 / 50 / 75 / 100% at the caster's location for the duration of the spell. The queen spawns more bees periodically. When Bees die or despawn they explode into a spray of [Mini-Cascading Vims]"
-it is a genuine swarm pet! probably not much dps but it will look cool and RNG might create a mighty swarm. the passive healing would have to BEEEEEEEE seen to BEEEEEEElieve!
3. "Casting Crawling Swarm and Relic: Doomswarm will summon a queen bee at a rate of 10 / 20 / 40 / 80%. The queen casts [a more HP restored version of Royal Jelly] on the Druid's group."
-everyone forgets about royal jelly. that stuff is amazing. huge lore / internal consistency win too.
 
Bump cause people wanna rework some tomes, and thats what i made this thread for. Im looking for legitimate thought out and explained tome ideas, Reasons why the current tome dosnt fit/isnt good, and detailed explanation of your idea of a tome to replace it.
 
monks do not have a third class tome yet, we have two offensive tomes though that are both more or less fine at this point, a defensive tome might be nice, Something that boosts avoidance or resistances or my personal favorite idea that everyone else hates: something that massively increases natural regeneration (like 50/tick/tome) . 200/tick sounds really good but for a t10 monk that is still 5 minutes of sitting around to get full life.
 
monks do not have a third class tome yet, we have two offensive tomes though that are both more or less fine at this point, a defensive tome might be nice, Something that boosts avoidance or resistances or my personal favorite idea that everyone else hates: something that massively increases natural regeneration (like 50/tick/tome) . 200/tick sounds really good but for a t10 monk that is still 5 minutes of sitting around to get full life.

Sounds dope, but this is for tomes currently in the game, not the unimplemented ones, theres another thread for that https://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/threads/unimplemented-tome-idea-thread.30344/page-2#post-308101
 
Can we get rid of the bee's for the druids please? It's a highly situational spell (that druids most of the time will only have up in DPS groups) that only works in outdoor zones. I can't speak for most druids, but I normally only have one utility slot open, and 95% of the time for raids I have archaic loaded. Unless the Queen Bee casts Vims on the fourth rank, Druids would be better suited with a consistent healing tome.

Give pet companion a GHeal proc
HoT Overheal heals 25, 50, 75, 100% of overheal between group members
Increasing duration of A:HoT G:HoT and RHoT by 1-2 ticks (i.e. tome II increases by 1, tome IV increases by 2)
A straight heal increase for HoT's per tome done (5, 10, 15, 20%).
Procs a heal on target when a HoT is cast (1: Greater Healing, 2: Chloroblast, 3: Superior Healing, 4: Chloroshock)
 
I'm not entirely sure how impactful frenzied companion is, but given how little melee dps my pet does and the fact that it adds melee attacks, it is likely very small (5-10 dps / rank) which is almost meaningless given how fun class tomes are to get.

Perhaps it could use some type of tweak? It would be nice to see it give a % of focus effects to pet while in pet stance.. original implementation of pet stance allowed focus effects to work on pet while stanced, it no longer does.

Empathic warder is kinda cool, I like having an additional way to heal myself when pet is getting damaged by AoE's.
 
Daenar wants you to know that he disagrees with any changes to Frenzied Companion. Take it for what it's worth.
 
Perhaps I'm missing something, but when the pet's melee dps is in the 150-200 DPS range over long parses, I find flurry chances on it to be quite small. Again, I could be missing something.

Also note that those DPS numbers are with frenzied companion 4 already.
 
so I'm forum banned (I can only view forums while not on my home WiFi), but I've been seeing susurrus comments lately. someone mind telling him that our pet tomes are exceptionally good and bst pet dps increases inversely proportional to mobs hp? if his pet isn't doing good dps then he's misinformed and he should only be in mimic when doing spell rotations or when using an AE wep in an AE group.

And empathic warder is dope. oh, heal 2 ppl for price of 1? thanks empathic
 
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I agree that empathic warder is nice. I'm saying frenzied companion might be the equivalent of a 3% total DPS increase for my character, which seems a little insignificant given the difficulty in obtaining these books.

It's better than BEES! for sure, but is not a particularly unique mechanic and could do with some tuning. Just input, far be it from me to question the opinion of a banned player.
 
Daenar - focus effects work on pets while not in mimic stance. that was the key to having that stance. I was pulling 3k dps during the tuning of the revamp with them active in mimic. the pet, like the class itself, is not a melee dps class like monks. both player character and warder make more use of procs, spells, and clickies.

so maybe I misunderstood. it seems to me you were implying the pet did little overall dps, which it clearly does not. it's melee dps however is not the largest chunk.

I have made mention before and think you and I could both agree that our class tomes should be more utility based. so in that sense I agree with you. empathic should stay as is. I don't feel like going on my old laptop and pulling up the tome ideas I had given to Taryth, but off the top of my head I'd suggest a tome that increases the amount of hp/mana paragon gives. maybe 10% increments.

frenzied probably could use a replacement, but not because the pet does little dps. and I'd rather see the 3rd tome go in before trying to replace an existing one.

maybe someone here can pull up a few rujik parses and pull out Voltrons dps on each to show what pet is doing. that or taeshlin.

(Taeshlin) Daenar's pet.

Voltron

--- DMG: 268886 @ 539 sdps (550 dps in 489s) [4.18%]
------ Voltron :
--------- Total: 267546 -- Slash: 155720 -- DirDmg: 72126 -- Pierce: 37471 -- Bash: 2229
--------- Normal rate: 85.3% (78.1% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 14.7% (21.9% of DMG)
--------- Attempts: 2245 -- Hits: 1615 -- Misses: 630 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 71.9%
------ Voltron `s pet:
--------- Total: 1340 -- Hit: 1246 -- Bash: 94
--------- Normal rate: 100% (100% of DMG)
--------- Attempts: 45 -- Hits: 27 -- Misses: 18 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 60%
--- DMG to PC: 17898 @17898dps

(Rujik) Hyofen's pet

Bengal
--- DMG: 247308 @ 541 sdps (548 dps in 451s) [3,86%]
------ Total: 247308 -- Slash: 143510 -- DirDmg: 62960 -- Crush: 39166 -- Bash: 1672
------ Normal rate: 79% (68,4% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 21% (31,6% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 1417 -- Hits: 1417 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%
--- DMG to PC: 110003 @243dps

Same fight, Daenar's pet

Voltron
--- DMG: 229528 @ 502 sdps (506 dps in 454s) [3,58%]
------ Voltron :
--------- Total: 228077 -- Claw: 153712 -- DirDmg: 62527 -- Hit: 10238 -- Bash: 1600
--------- Normal rate: 81% (72,1% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 19% (27,9% of DMG)
--------- Attempts: 1449 -- Hits: 1449 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%
------ Voltron `s pet:
--------- Total: 1451 -- Hit: 1426 -- Bash: 25
--------- Normal rate: 100% (100% of DMG)
--------- Attempts: 23 -- Hits: 23 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%
--- DMG to PC: 75267 @237dps
 
I looked up some more of our old parses, Daenar's pets was consistently doing 500+ dps on Taesh, IM like above. They were also doing about 100 more dps or 20-25% more than runic mage pet Windbeutel with same focuses and all tomes (and in deathblow stance whenever it was up, that's twice per Taeshlin; frenzied burnout, fire pet form that procs a 1.2k dd. Not sure if Voltron was in mimic stance the whole fight - maybe Daenar should get unbanned or create another account to elaborate). The beastlord pet haste is 5% more more haste (80% vs 85%, 20 more attack and str). Apparently flurry does something because the bst pet swings 20-25% more often than mage. Or do their basic attacks have less delay? Their accuracy is similar.

Taeshlin:

Voltron
--- DMG: 281774 @ 585 sdps (587 dps in 480s) [4.61%]
------ Total: 281774 -- Claw: 199437 -- DirDmg: 79914 -- Bash: 2423
------ Normal rate: 88% (82.5% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 12% (17.5% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 2454 -- Hits: 1824 -- Misses: 630 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 74.3%

Voltron
--- DMG: 290168 @ 550 sdps (562 dps in 516s) [4.63%]
------ Total: 290168 -- Claw: 202545 -- DirDmg: 85210 -- Bash: 2413
------ Normal rate: 87.2% (80.5% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 12.8% (19.5% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 2634 -- Hits: 2058 -- Misses: 576 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 78.1%


bst and mage pet on same fight:

Voltron
--- DMG: 233846 @ 572 sdps (585 dps in 400s) [4%]
------ Total: 233846 -- Slash: 168465 -- DirDmg: 63480 -- Bash: 1901
------ Normal rate: 83.2% (74.8% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 16.8% (25.2% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 1789 -- Hits: 1349 -- Misses: 440 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 75.4%
--- DMG to PC: 4634 @4634dps

Windbeutel
--- DMG: 197164 @ 482 sdps (484 dps in 407s) [3.37%]
------ Total: 197164 -- Slash: 122909 -- DirDmg: 38997 -- Hit: 33600 -- Bash: 1658
------ Normal rate: 90.6% (88.9% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 9.4% (11.1% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 1400 -- Hits: 1030 -- Misses: 370 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 73.6%
--- DMG to PC: 4634 @4634dps​



Monstrosity, same fight:

Voltron
--- DMG: 298303 @ 517 sdps (520 dps in 574s) [4.86%]
------ Voltron :
--------- Total: 296436 -- Claw: 224786 -- DirDmg: 69090 -- Bash: 2560
--------- Normal rate: 83.2% (75.2% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 16.8% (24.8% of DMG)
--------- Attempts: 2873 -- Hits: 2021 -- Misses: 852 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 70.3%

Windbeutel
--- DMG: 236381 @ 410 sdps (418 dps in 565s) [3.85%]
------ Total: 236381 -- Slash: 137102 -- Crush: 46529 -- DirDmg: 29079 -- Hit: 21600 -- Bash: 2071
------ Normal rate: 91.8% (88.5% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 8.2% (11.5% of DMG)
------ Attempts: 2173 -- Hits: 1554 -- Misses: 619 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 71.5%

I don't have any more recent parses. It seems that pet's spell/proc damage varies a lot, anywhere from 20% to 40%. Be it from mimic stance or having different weapons (they were anywhere in the range from summoned to Citadel to Emberflow weapons, e.g. no animation or turruj weapons). Beastlord pet crits more, too. Considering that this was parsed and tuned a lot after beastlord revamp, I'm assuming these are the numbers the devs were aiming for (?).

I'm not sure what's going on with your pet if the low parses are consistent on all types of mobs. Assuming you have the runic pet and all focuses.
 
I'm glad you've posted these parses because now I'm convinced it is me. I am running same gear setup as Daenar and my pet is doing ~370 DPS on Taeshlin instead of ~500.

I don't typically put weapons on pet, is that the only difference? If so, WOW! I'll start doing so :)

Any other ideas?
 
Here's another copy-paste from our favorite banned beastlord:
Daenar said:
no tink; I do not stay in mimic stance entire time. My dps goes down if I do that. I will mimic, double dot, bitter cold, taesh belt, /s 2 or /s 5 (been a lil whle since banned, think that's the one). like I said; i lose focus gains while in mimic. The way I get pet to be so high is literally every in-game clicky that can benefit the pet's dps. If i were to just /s 2 and auto attack, pet dps would be like... 200-ish? and my own dps would be like 500-ish.

I believe my cycle is, /s 8, glaciation, venom, bitter, taesh, (one other clicky), /s 2. because of the warder and to lesser extent the bst's inversely proportional dps increase to mobs hp (think it's 1:1 for pet, and 0.15:1 for owner... i gave Taryth numbers but he never told me what he tweaked it to), I wait to use overhaste AA, soverign, vah back etc. On most fights I'll wait til mob is sub 30 then blow my load. The difference between throwing my shoes at 80% and 30% is about 150dps averaged over the whole fight.

my numbers above are not objective; they are not scientific. they are pure guesses by a single individual; but said individual seems to get pretty close to the mark when he makes an attempt.

also if you compare the hyofen #'s against mine; you'll notice that I only use pet wep's if someone puts the weapons on. I'm hella lazy and even tho I'll collect pet wep's, I rarely remember to use them. Lots of clawing as a result. AFAIK, weapon dly has no impact to pet swings; it's purely the dmg portion, and any stats/focus/procs on the weapon. so a 20/15 and 20/20 wep are 100% the same on pet.
 
It sounds like the difference in our parses is aspect of lujein from sovereign, mimicked vah back and mimicked taesh belt. Thank you Daenar!
 
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