Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Except this barely impacts you to begin with. Rangers are already good relative to other classes on the same tier as long as they're geared//exped similarly without glacial strike as soon as they get a t9/10 bow.
Change to glacial strike
- Thread starter Gargate
- Start date
How many Rangers are getting glacial strike before T8? Last I knew it required refuge faction and not many are able to do that prior to T8 unless they have higher tiered toons to help them.
You may get 3-4 procs, I get like I said an AVERAGE of 2, sometimes none and once in a while 3 but that's uncommon and that's using my fastest weapons.
You may not be factoring in not everyone has emberflow/windstone tomes like that manual of triggered casting your Ranger has.
I think you missed it, but don't worry dude. The spell is still being tuned. It's all good.
In case you still missed this, don't worry man. It's going to be worked on, and I'm sure they appreciate your constructive feedback. : )
I just dont see how it can ever be balanced. Once you figure in haste differences, dual wield, double attack, compendium of triggered stances and qualty of weapons you end up with wildly different outcomes.
If you don't have t13+ it's an all around nerf, if you buff it to not be a nerf at lower tiers its way OP for a t13+, and if you set it to a fixed number of procs like marza suggested you're right back at a fixed number thats easier to use as a single cast DD.
Thats why I just don't see value in this change.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
The idea of the spell is to make it a dps gain over bowing while you have the proc buff up. The numbers have not been tuned yet to make this the case because marza did not want to release a spell that was hilariously OP. I don't know how many more times this can be said.
If the spell is tuned to be a dps increase while meleeing over bowing for a character like skaoli with the best bow in the game, then it will be a much more significant increase for rangers with worse bows as ranger melee weapon progression is currently very poor.
Having something more engaging to do than icerend evey 12s and exposure once a minute vs bosses should help improve the gameplay experience for the unboxed ranger in the wake of the clicky nerfs.
If the spell is tuned to be a dps increase while meleeing over bowing for a character like skaoli with the best bow in the game, then it will be a much more significant increase for rangers with worse bows as ranger melee weapon progression is currently very poor.
Having something more engaging to do than icerend evey 12s and exposure once a minute vs bosses should help improve the gameplay experience for the unboxed ranger in the wake of the clicky nerfs.
You dont use calefaction or jolt? Calefaction while not as mana efficent as icerend can be woven in just fine and I normally have enough mana for t12 fights with my current gear.
It has not been said that the intent of the buff is to be better dps, in truth Ive seen several ppl all having different ideas from a back up option to a better/higher option.
And no if its good on skaoli doesnt mean it scales down even remotely balanced.
Again double attack, haste, dual weild, compendium of triggered casting, all of those things make a considerable difference.
Unless the buff proc can be written to ignore those things it doesnt scale in the least bit.
People say it still needs tuned, for me its lower dps/damage thanit was even in melee form but its a bump up for skaoli.
If tuned to be a bump up for me it makes it OP for skaoli and since ppl have already said rangers are op that seems the opposite of intent.
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iBluNT
Dalayan Elder
You know you are saying if it's better than the best bow, it isn't better than any bows before it, right? And it's really not a good look throwing around skill mods and Emberflow tomes as your deciding factor.
If you're categorizing yourself as T12, you've been more than capable of getting a proc tome and reaching the stats that I'm using besides a dual wield or two.
Regardless, I'm pretty confident this isn't supposed to be a replacement to bowing and will likely not outparse Windblaze or Strand, it's just a figure of comparison.
As far as not having the tomes when I was in a guild working through the tiers the ppl that did them were very "clicky" and when they were done no one else was taken along. Shit happens.
You can't pretend skill mods and tomes are not a factor, if it wasnt tested on rangers wihout them than it wasnt tested well, you also say its supposed to boost all, well lower tiers cant get a fraction of those abilities.
Which is it, is it rangers too op on range so nerf the dmg when weaving into range or is it to make it out dps range (but I thought ranger dps is to op?).
Ive tested it, for me the spell does less than it used to but you say it now does more.
So it gets tuned so it does a bit more for me, but that means it gets boosted to op levels for you. But I thought ranger dps is already too high?
So many conflicting statements through out this thread.
You seem to have a lot of misinformation or are making a lot of assumptions.
First of all, double attack and compendium have 0 impact in the amount of procs someone could possibly get from this buff. And haste and dualwield would make up a negligible amount of difference, basically unparsable amounts.
This spell as it is scales very little based on anything weapon related other than the fact that having better weapons means you will do more damage during the period of time you are fishing for procs. This will remain true even after it is changed to last until x amount of procs have happened. Don't confuse this with someone at a higher tier getting "more" from this spell because that's simply not true. In fact the immediate impact of getting this spell will be larger than the benefits you get through out the tier, which is basically true for every spell in the game.
The end goal of this spell is to be a small increase in dmg from the ranger overall actually, but it will require more engagement on the part of the players compared to the current Ranger playstyle, which isn't a bad thing considering the current state of Rangers. You may disagree with this statement, but right now Ranger is easily the most passive class in the game to play at near maximum efficiency, and due to the range of bows it is an incredibly safe option too for many fights.
No one is going to become "OP" because of this spell, I don't even know how you even came to this conclusion honestly.
Lastly, you seem to have some kind of impression that Rangers are meant to be only a ranged class, which is just not true. They are surely the best ranged class in the game and that is not going to change, but they were never meant to be the "archer" as you put it. Rangers have some of the best melee capabilities in the game, second only to monk. They have more AA abilities that only work for melee than they do for ranged, and the last tome for rangers (which has yet to be implemented I admit), has intentions of being melee focused. Honestly the whole RANGEr thing is pretty trying and is mostly a stupid play on words. I want to make it clear that rangers will still be spending most of their time at range but that doesn't mean it has to be always, or that they should not be able to hold their own to some extent in melee range.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
I almost never jolt on my ranger, my threat output never comes close to outpacing a tank. If a tank dies, I'd prefer my ranger to have as much threat over healers and other squishy classes as possible, considering rangers are one of the best non-tank classes at mitigating(technically avoiding) damage in the game. The only consistent use I've found for jolt is when a mob is just about dead and I'm too low mana to cast a real nuke, so I cast jolt in hopes of getting a miracle bracer proc. On fights where just spamming icerend (and glacial strike now that it actually lands consistently) doesn't run me OOM I just throw in more exposures - its significantly more mana efficient than calefaction and I also have much more cold damage on gear than fire damage. Calefaction only sees use on encounters that are incredibly cold resistant/immune, however those are pretty uncommon.
The biggest thing that will make melee worth it will be the proc portion of the glacial strike buff. The proc portion does not scale with double attack or proc tome(proc tome only scales item proc rates to my knowledge). It will scale minimally with haste effects and mostly depends on if the haste difference nets you another attack in the proc window or not. It does scale with cold focus, damage increment, frost mastery books, and evo mod.
Ranger bow dps and ranger auto attack dps currently do not scale at the same rate. Bow damage currently scales much faster than melee damage does. The difference between a a t11 and t14 ranger meleeing, both in terms of raw number and relative %, is much smaller than the difference between a t11 ranger and t14 ranger bowing a mob. This means it has to cover a much larger gap in dps on the t14 ranger than it does for the t11 ranger for it to be worth meleeing during the proc window. This means that if the proc is a DPS boost for the t14 ranger, the relative boost in DPS from the proc will be larger for the lower tier ranger.
Hey finally some actual answers to questions Ive been asking.
Yeah theres been a lot of conflicting info in this thread and some missleading (claims of a back up spell all the way to better than windblaze) it seems while questions Ive asked have gone unanswered.
Questions about scaling and how it could even be tuned instead of actual information were met with people just being snippy.
We will just have to disagree on how/what the ranger class is, its basically been an archer for many years and I guess its moving towards something else is what its going to be.
windows777
Dalayan Elder
I just wanted to say back in my day.. all the runics and and refugee spells wete rediculusly overpowered. And they stayed that way! Untill anyone besides the first guild got them! And we didn't complain! And we walked uphill both ways!
I wasn't from that time but I was around when your pet poofed if you invsed, and before there was an ikisith.
Atm calefaction is the last of my nukes cast, depends on the fight but with my current gear I have a little mana left at the end. Tbf were still doing mostly t12 (I think were ready for t13) maybe then Ill have to conserve maa more until my mana pool catches up.