4.3 Loot balancing!

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Xoranath, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings Dalayan's, you read that title correctly, 4.3 Loot balancing. Now, before you start flaming, threatening to quit, or other general raging, please let me say a few things. I want you all to pay close attention. 4.3 Loot is an issue, it is unbalanced, for the most part. It has multiple Best in Slot items. It has been an issue since it came out, it has been tweaked a little here or there but it needs a major overhaul. Why do you ask? I am sure that you all want more content, to be able to progress past what is out there right now. As a player, I do as well. You have 3 or more guilds competing for the same raids/12man/and 6man content. There is not enough stuff to kill and no progression past a certain point. We, the Staff, wish to change that. I will not discuss content here but I will say that yes, stuff is being worked on. Not only are bugs getting fixed but new content is in the pipeline. Don't ask when, or where, we will let you know as that time gets here. The issue is that to create new loot that you would want we have to make some changes to most if not all of the 4.3 loot. As it stands now, for the difficulty of the fight in comparison to other content and the reward that you receive, 4.3 loot is hugely unbalanced. That includes weapons and robe. Now I know, you are going to see this and just go "OMG NERF!", but let's look at things realistically. 4.3 loot by far creates a gap in tier progression reward vs difficulty somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7 tiers above everything else(mostly). Staff has discussed this, but we want to be fully transparent and not just nerf out of the blue. We want your thoughts, actual constructive ideas on what can be changed to bring 4.3 down to where it should be. Please read this, take a deep breath and think about it before you start posting away. Staff has their opinions on this but for the moment, I want to hear your thoughts. We will post some of our ideas and some of the specific issues that we see certain items causing for progression. Any flame posts, name calling or generally not helpful posts will be removed. This is not a question of if a change will occur it is how it will occur. Please help in deciding the outcome. We know that all of you put forth great effort in to progressing you characters, we want to help in that. These changes will allow for better content that streamlines reward vs difficulty without a huge gap. Thank you for supporting the server,

    Admin GM Twist
     
  2. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    The obvious sore thumb is the 4.3 robe IMO, it's a crazy powerful BP. Cut the spell AC in like half and your at a decent start.

    Bane of the fallen god should probably get toned down in terms of damage output, but if its not gonna be a crazy damaging weapon at the end of the games progression, the level of self damage should probably looked at as well.
     
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  3. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks, Marthog, that is exactly the kind of response needed.
     
  4. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    I have 1 question. Have any of the people that want to change the loot actually killed 4.3 or have 4.3 loot on their own characters?
     
  5. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    Nerfs just make people mad and quit, especially to items that have already been nerfed. In my eyes, the game is about having fun, and prestigious items like robe/jyre/verdict etc. are really the few items that keep me having fun and playing this game.
     
  6. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    Point of the question. Its not an easy fight to learn, the loot is rewarding for the months it takes to actually put together a real team of capable players to kill it. Its not an easy task. Its kinda OP when you have 5 4.3 vets carry someone through, but doing it with a full team of new people is no easy task
     
  7. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Xorz, to answer your question, yes. And Sabuti, do you not ever want other loot? I mean, we could make cool new content with no loot but then that is silly. Don't want it to be like Live where a new zones makes stuff obsolete but you got to have a range to be able to get better stuff. Otherwise what is the point of progressing. Nobody likes nerfs, but in certain cases it is warranted.
     
  8. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    Imo. If you nerf something. Make something else better. Cella got nerfed, now its proc rate/ratio is worse than spire from Spires. With the same proc. T13 vs T11. Backwards imo
     
  9. susurrus

    susurrus Dalayan Elder

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    I completely agree that there is _NO_ way to create new tiers of content not specifically balanced around 4.3 robe without changing 4.3 robe.

    No thoughts, but good thinking,
     
  10. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Well the idea is to create better loot in new content. And we are not taking away it's need. Items would still be tops in category for now, just not the waaaay better I don't need anything else ever that it is now.
     
  11. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    sure. but nerfing my old loot to get new loot that isn't as good as my old loot is pretty lame
     
  12. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Who said it would not be as good? I mean the first tier or two after maybe, but you are talking end game loot and we are trying to expand the end game.
     
  13. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    At the cost of making current end game players worse
     
  14. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    Not that much worse, just won't be overpowered.
     
  15. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    Nobody wants to log into a character that was worse than yesterday. Add new loot. Loot that is similar with +5 str +10wis and +1 double attack. Now, what was end game loot now has an upgrade and nobody is worse
     
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  16. Xorz

    Xorz Dalayan Elder

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    And those stats wont break the game. There's just something a bit better to strive for
     
  17. susurrus

    susurrus Dalayan Elder

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    the only way to achieve that, Xorz, would be to make every item have 4.3 robe proc. It trivializes content, and any new content would have to be balanced around it. New content with actual tier progression anywhere in the ballpark of current tier progression requires robe nerf. I for one am quite happy they are finally addressing it.
     
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  18. Xoranath

    Xoranath Administrator Staff Member

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    But if you look at the overall risk/reward vs other comparable stuff, it is too powerful. Just making more overpowered loot is not the answer. The scaling is off. Should it be tops, yes, for now, but not at it's current levels. Maybe a gap of 1-3 tiers but not 5-7.
     
  19. susurrus

    susurrus Dalayan Elder

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    I would really like to hear from lleoc and tev, i think youll get a constructive response.
     
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  20. Lleoc

    Lleoc Dalayan Master

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    It needs nerfed but nerfing items when other items are being "worked" on vs actually available is another point of contest when the devs try to balance things. I'm not sure which other loots are grossly better than others but if anything the weapons are mostly underwhelming for the vast majority anymore.
     
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