4.3 Loot balancing!

My two cents here is that a ton of content has been balanced around tanks having the 4.3 robe. Like literally Marza is standing there turning up and down damage on mobs as we are fighting them based on how much a robed tank was dieing. So yeah the robe is broken, everyone knows it's broken, it needs to be fixed and also probably a lot of fights will become unkillable nightmares when it happens. For instance: has Blazewind EVER been killed with a non-robe tank? and repeat that same question for most of the end game t13 stuff.

also in spite of bango coming in and doing the classic old player thing where anything you have already beat is easy 4.3 is legitimately a complicated fight that is much harder than anything before it for 6 man. It is a big jump in difficulty from any other 6 man encounter at that tier. The risk/reward is not severely out of place on anything but the admittedly broken robe. There is probably a case to be made for the other loot but not anything worse than the case you could make for most fights. It's probably ok for one or two items from an encounter to be really good and one or two items to be kind of meh.


P.S. Horok is maybe sort of used sparingly by monks maybe I think I keep it in my bag for really specific fights now? but maybe split it off and make it into two weapons. The current version seems fine for bsts, the monk version I am going to vote for something that fills a defensive role, with a defensive or heal type proc.
 
BTW, I was discussing this topic with a focus group and we came up with the solution.

Spoiler alert it isn't a time machine like that guy wants.

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Would you turn down a gelatinous cube illusion BP for any reason? I wouldn't. I'd kill and eat an innocent person to get it.
 
But really. What does anyone expect to get from asking why things were not fixed many years ago.

The answer is really nothing comes of that
 
1. Change Horok to a fist weapon for BST. (Reason: MQ Seeker Aug / BiS should be H2H weapon for BST)
2. Change Beastlord Spire's bracer to H2H mod instead of blunt. (Why blunt when MQ Seeker Aug is H2H...)
3. Add +5 H2H mod to Gilded Broxan Quill. (This item was created because there wasn't a reward for Monks/BST at the time for the mob)
4. Change Matron's Grasp to +5 H2H mod. (Because of the added H2H mod to Gilded Broxan Quill)
5. Create a utility based blunt weapon for Monks.

For future upgrades to H2H mod you will have to follow a different path maybe. It just depends on the current staff and how they feel. Future BiS for Beastlords should at least maintain 1 fist weapon. Current fist weapons are underpowered to their blunt/pierce counterpart.

Currently H2H mod for Monks is only obtainable through penalty because it is +5 dmg to their 13/18 fists at 25 mod.

Beastlords are different as they would have to go the weapon route which H2H mod would account only for increased accuracy for them.

So if you keep the current system Beastlords are just using H2H mod for weapon accuracy just like a rogue for Pierce mod or a Bard/War for slash mod and should not be penalized like a monk is.

With the change listed above 1-5 nothing really happens except the Monk gets +3 more H2H mod and was the only way I could see that currently a Beastlord would be able to obtain 25 H2H mod if the Horok was to be changed to a fist weapon without a penalty. (You could change it's name too if you felt like it, also make it look badass please!!!)
 
So Bango claims he solo healed 4.3 fight with a paladin 5 years ago which makes the fight still pretty easy ~ The game hasn't been constant. My take away point is that after 5 years of playing this game and the nerfs that ensued after Bango ruled 4.3 is that we still aren't at his level when he was able to solo heal 4.3. Now we are being hit by another nerf, why can't we solo heal still? How many years of new content before we are able to do that? /ooc Hey, OP items back then allowed stuff like this if it was true. Vah Back used to have a 2 minute duration which made most end game content of your time playing for when it was relevant, easy...

SOD history has always been to make new content with something overpowered that doesn't get addressed until new devs start working on new content and the OP items now become a nuisance. The SOD players have become accustomed to these items even though they knew pretty well it was inevitable and it just hurts. The hours that went in to acquiring said items - hurts.

.
Characters are much, much stronger than back when 4.3 was new. 2.5 alone was a big enough buff that it trivializes a bunch of stuff. I've been nuked more on taesh golems and still killed them in the past few months then the other 5+ years combined. We dont have a bard/resists casted on rujjik and i hail spirits without weapons equiped or bbr. Since several classes can push 1500++dps mobs die much, much faster while the healers procing weapons arnt mana draining them. People/guilds just suck at the game now and blame it on nerfs but there's so much character progression that if they released a new tier and balanced it around current characters any actual new guilds that had to progress through that tier would want to delete their characters.

As far as vah back I'm very grateful that marza realized it was a problem and instead of balancing content around 10+ people in the raid having an "optional clicky" every 1 hour he retuned it to its current form and stopped balancing around it. 4.3 was tuned down when this happened as well. I've solo healed 4.3 and had 85% mana left on my cleric and that was before 2.5. It's not hard anymore and even if the bp was supposed to be a token item, although it was broken (and brought to devs attentions a long, long time ago) it still needs nerfed.
 
Could always just shut this encounter down and reinstate it after the new content is out and re balance / nerf from that point. Really its just a 6 man and only done by a select crowd and proven to be a contentious encounter anyways.
 
That is only because recently jackasses started to get ahead of themselves and ruin literal years worth of people not being dicks to each other even amongst people that actually hated one another because that one guy took that other guys loot. Removing content is like the exact opposite of what this game needs.
 
Could always just shut this encounter down and reinstate it after the new content is out and re balance / nerf from that point. Really its just a 6 man and only done by a select crowd and proven to be a contentious encounter anyways.

and change this guy's name to something like Ballsaxit to make the people who get angsty over 4.3 poofing happy. Kind of a 'yeah, but look at what we did to the guy whose fault it is' kinda thing.
 
Suspending an encounter is not removing it.
Yeah I suppose if they did it would be that iksars fault for awile.
 
But for summary, this has been parsed by myself and others several times. Frost BP will not proc damage again until its current debuff wears off (every ~15 seconds), making its current base dps right around 40dps. This isn't anything to be concerned about compared to the rarity of the item.

Also I know you said let someone else discuss Horok but a H2H mod on a 1HB weapon. Cmon.

-Frost BP, still needs nerfing, even if its not as great as people think it may be. Along with other BPs, including experiment BP.
-Horok, H2H was the first thing that came to mind that is on some of the MNK/BST items that really benefits one class atm much more than the other, it's not an actual suggestion, but more of an example of how to potentially itemize without straying too far from the original item and giving both classes bonuses while not affecting the other class too heavily.

I'm not quite sure if you understand how bard 4.3 weapon works, .... The 4.3 sword was originally made with WIZ/MAG using the 2h version in mind, so removing them from it entirely seems foolish

-From what you posted I think we are in agreement on how bard stuff should work, I don't think we disagreed, in fact my bullet on disso was entirely based on your suggestion
-Bane, for wizards and mages... yeah, that is a good point. I was just trying to spitball some ways to shift things around, maybe make the 1hander more in tune with MAG/WIZ
-Also that's a pretty neat ENC item, thanks for posting it.
 
and stopped balancing around it. 4.3 was tuned down when this happened as well.
I'm sorry but how is nerfing something and then nerfing encounters around that nerf a solution? That's literally just being in the exact same spot with smaller numbers. Why not just make better items instead and let people have fun with characters who are finally strong enough to 6 man generals?

Seems like the vah back situation was changed because of it being a nuisance of having to wait an hour between raid wipes. In the current games state I still don't on tier guilds killing t13 without "10+ people having an optional clicky."
 
That is only because recently jackasses started to get ahead of themselves and ruin literal years worth of people not being dicks to each other even amongst people that actually hated one another because that one guy took that other guys loot. Removing content is like the exact opposite of what this game needs.

This thread is now about this. Please do continue.
 
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