Any word yet on necro replacement AA?
- Thread starter staffeq2
- Start date
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
I wasn't kidding. If you want something to happen, main necros who still play need to get together, figure out what you want, and whine a lot for that thing. Beating back clueless alts, drug addled wizards, and bads bearing 13 years of Live butthurt.
Because;
A. The staff won't doing anything for you if you aren’t a squeaky wheel.
B. Will come up with a replacement so lame it's farcical, if left on their own.
Your a caster, not a melee class or a healer, they don't care about you. You need to
come up with ideas.
I offered burst lich, since it makes us a duration class, and doesn't really skew damage since necs hard cap on damage based on spell caster timers. So our damage is always going to be "optimal stacked spell damage + (optimal stacked spell damage x critical percentage)" = predicted damage every tick. It melee predictable and takes a minute to apply or re-apply. So it will always have an anti-burst component inherent in it.
Unless the Devs don't want necros to use all their spells, in which case they need to engage us in a discussion about class design and role. Because I believe their concept of what the class role is in-game is nonexistent, or frankly hostile.
Because;
A. The staff won't doing anything for you if you aren’t a squeaky wheel.
B. Will come up with a replacement so lame it's farcical, if left on their own.
Your a caster, not a melee class or a healer, they don't care about you. You need to
come up with ideas.
I offered burst lich, since it makes us a duration class, and doesn't really skew damage since necs hard cap on damage based on spell caster timers. So our damage is always going to be "optimal stacked spell damage + (optimal stacked spell damage x critical percentage)" = predicted damage every tick. It melee predictable and takes a minute to apply or re-apply. So it will always have an anti-burst component inherent in it.
Unless the Devs don't want necros to use all their spells, in which case they need to engage us in a discussion about class design and role. Because I believe their concept of what the class role is in-game is nonexistent, or frankly hostile.
defixio
Dalayan Elder
I was/am going to make a list of things i don't like about the necro class once i play around with things a bit more. festering curse being non-existent was going to be an item on the list.
anywho, my list of festering curse ideas off the top of my head.
1. 10-20 minute recast, a dot as powerful as a relic dot that can be used with all your other dots. unresistable.
2. +X spell crit on all dots (always)
3. clicky that makes all dots cast in X seconds auto crit, or do super jazzed damage.
4. the last tick on any dot you cast does huge damage
5. compresses dots to make your dps very frontloaded for X seconds (clicky.)
6. always adds 1-2 ticks to all dots you throw out.
7. clicky on mob, makes monster take more dot damage from all dots (synergy with other dot-ers)
you could approach this from other angles too!
8. any dots you cast have a chance to restore mana to the group.
9. dots do more damage to monsters that are at lower health
10. gives a stance instead of a nuke button. the stance makes you not able to use a pet but your dots do +gooder damage.
11. lower cast time. mob with effect on them reduces all heals received by X percent (big number!)
12. make it exactly the same as before. flag mobs you don't want it to work on as immune to it!! (reduce recast if you make all raid mobs immune).
13. curse you place on mob. if mob dies with curse on it, something good happens. group heal, mana regen, free group rune. faster recast than old FC though.
13 is a nice round cursey number, so bam, 13 ideas for festering curse. I'm game to begin squeaking the wheel if it's of any help
anywho, my list of festering curse ideas off the top of my head.
1. 10-20 minute recast, a dot as powerful as a relic dot that can be used with all your other dots. unresistable.
2. +X spell crit on all dots (always)
3. clicky that makes all dots cast in X seconds auto crit, or do super jazzed damage.
4. the last tick on any dot you cast does huge damage
5. compresses dots to make your dps very frontloaded for X seconds (clicky.)
6. always adds 1-2 ticks to all dots you throw out.
7. clicky on mob, makes monster take more dot damage from all dots (synergy with other dot-ers)
you could approach this from other angles too!
8. any dots you cast have a chance to restore mana to the group.
9. dots do more damage to monsters that are at lower health
10. gives a stance instead of a nuke button. the stance makes you not able to use a pet but your dots do +gooder damage.
11. lower cast time. mob with effect on them reduces all heals received by X percent (big number!)
12. make it exactly the same as before. flag mobs you don't want it to work on as immune to it!! (reduce recast if you make all raid mobs immune).
13. curse you place on mob. if mob dies with curse on it, something good happens. group heal, mana regen, free group rune. faster recast than old FC though.
13 is a nice round cursey number, so bam, 13 ideas for festering curse. I'm game to begin squeaking the wheel if it's of any help
oozu1234
Dalayan Adventurer
nah then necros would line up all their dots and then levant to the ent.
Lots of ideas, no really clear standouts, no consensus, not enough people to really form a consensus.
I'd put a vote in for velleity's thing if it didn't sound like gather mana with a limitation and risk and if it didn't sound like it would take a lot of fiddling to balance (I don't pay attention to anything now so I wouldn't rely on me to do it). And I'm probably hostile to necros/casters so I guess I should just not pay attention to this anyhow as I could only get in the way.
I would be up for completely revamping a class and discussing new concepts/roles but that wouldn't get anywhere.
I'd put a vote in for velleity's thing if it didn't sound like gather mana with a limitation and risk and if it didn't sound like it would take a lot of fiddling to balance (I don't pay attention to anything now so I wouldn't rely on me to do it). And I'm probably hostile to necros/casters so I guess I should just not pay attention to this anyhow as I could only get in the way.
I would be up for completely revamping a class and discussing new concepts/roles but that wouldn't get anywhere.
defixio
Dalayan Elder
honestly on the necro front I don't think they should do as much dps as a mag/wiz/rogue. but I am a little concerned their utility drops in usefulness as they progress in level/tiers. we have whole series of spells that just stop, and others that we can't use due to buff limitations(the AC taps overwrite the important SK selfbuff and just use slots no one wants. they should go to bard slot). and then in other areas we're so outclassed we arn't even options (like i keep hearing that necro's can't mezz a lot of places, need a chanter). the spot healing doesn't scale well (wraithbond. not enhanced by healing focuses).
I'd dig on just having the utility pan out across the whole spectrum of gameplay, rather than panhandling for a % more dps.
and uhh. the class aa is rediculously uninteresting and not useful. the recast time on the lifetap, the ae lifetap are just terrible and enhanced control is pretty not-useful.
*rabble rabble*
(i think i may just make a suggestion about some of these things as individual threads).
I'd dig on just having the utility pan out across the whole spectrum of gameplay, rather than panhandling for a % more dps.
and uhh. the class aa is rediculously uninteresting and not useful. the recast time on the lifetap, the ae lifetap are just terrible and enhanced control is pretty not-useful.
*rabble rabble*
(i think i may just make a suggestion about some of these things as individual threads).
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Most active AAs are pretty questionable. If you think of some make sure you think of ones for Wizards' and Druids' as well because those will be the first replies to any threads about changing bad active AAs for Necros.
I can't help but think of random overly-complicated dumb ideas when I see a thread like this so ignore these in favor of real discussion.
Curse of the Gravekeeper
2.5 second cast time
2 minute recast
Unlimited duration
Can only be active on one target at a time
Deals 10 damage per tick base. Whenever it crits, or a nearby enemy dies with the necro on its hatelist, a small skeleton swarm pet is automatically summoned next to the target and begins attacking it for up to 30 seconds. These pets have 1/4 of the Necro's max HP and 1/2 of the Necro's AC and deal smallish damage (scaling with Companion Strength and Codex of Power etc). These pets restore 0.0005% of the Necro's max mana (i.e. 1 for every 2000 max mana) per second to their owner while they are alive. Only 5 of these pets can be active at any one time. However, whenever one of the Necro's allies dies they summon a swarm pet that is not subject to this cap but which is otherwise identical.
Alternatively make the curse deal no damage itself and trigger swarm pets from crits from the Necro's real DoTs on the target, but have the swarm pets only last 10 seconds. However spawning swarm pets too frequently may cause problems with assigning spawnids which can weird/lag things up.
Runic1? 2? -> Runic: Those Other Guys Get One
New pet spell for Necros. Default appearance is the blue version of the relic skeleton. Unlike other pets this one is a dedicated caster with fairly smart ai because that would be fun to try to code. Tries to keep itself alive with lifetaps, avoids casting DoTs on things willy-nilly if it thinks CC might happen, focuses on one target etc. Also if you have that AA that makes your pet get some benefit out of aggressive and defensive stances it will also react to those stances; if you're in aggressive it'll do everything it can to keep its DoT rotation up without care for its mana or health; in defensive it'll try to keep its HP topped up as much as possible. Etc etc etc. I'll get to make a pet AI yet dammit.
Curse of the Gravekeeper
2.5 second cast time
2 minute recast
Unlimited duration
Can only be active on one target at a time
Deals 10 damage per tick base. Whenever it crits, or a nearby enemy dies with the necro on its hatelist, a small skeleton swarm pet is automatically summoned next to the target and begins attacking it for up to 30 seconds. These pets have 1/4 of the Necro's max HP and 1/2 of the Necro's AC and deal smallish damage (scaling with Companion Strength and Codex of Power etc). These pets restore 0.0005% of the Necro's max mana (i.e. 1 for every 2000 max mana) per second to their owner while they are alive. Only 5 of these pets can be active at any one time. However, whenever one of the Necro's allies dies they summon a swarm pet that is not subject to this cap but which is otherwise identical.
Alternatively make the curse deal no damage itself and trigger swarm pets from crits from the Necro's real DoTs on the target, but have the swarm pets only last 10 seconds. However spawning swarm pets too frequently may cause problems with assigning spawnids which can weird/lag things up.
Runic1? 2? -> Runic: Those Other Guys Get One
New pet spell for Necros. Default appearance is the blue version of the relic skeleton. Unlike other pets this one is a dedicated caster with fairly smart ai because that would be fun to try to code. Tries to keep itself alive with lifetaps, avoids casting DoTs on things willy-nilly if it thinks CC might happen, focuses on one target etc. Also if you have that AA that makes your pet get some benefit out of aggressive and defensive stances it will also react to those stances; if you're in aggressive it'll do everything it can to keep its DoT rotation up without care for its mana or health; in defensive it'll try to keep its HP topped up as much as possible. Etc etc etc. I'll get to make a pet AI yet dammit.
I'm not concerned with questionable active AA's atm. I'm concerned about a purchased AA that was taken away and doesn't have a replacement for.
I'm not entirely certain what I'd like to have replace Festering Curse. I do know a few things that I DON'T want ...
*no mana batteries: no twitch, no mana transfers. If we're to help replenish mana for group/raid, make Mind Wrack better/more useful (less cooldown, less resisted). Mind Wrack is a completely different subject on useless spells.
*nothing that gives sudden burst dmg but leaves the necro incapacitated or oom (we have lifeburn)
*nothing situational at best with a huge cooldown
*no stat building functions
There are some decent ideas around. SoD staff took the AA away, it calls to reason that SoD staff needs to get the ball rolling to get the AA replaced in a timely manner. IMO, a member of SoD staff should start an OFFICIAL discussion thread for necros, put an MOTD out for necros to go to forums to discuss. Set a timeline for the discussion. Narrow choices down with what little necro community we have. Then perhaps make a poll to help select what the new AA replacement will be.
One of the better choices I've heard was to make a passive AA that gives permanent increase to dot damage. Add in a modifier that also increases damage/heal to life taps as well as dots. Give it a percentage that the increase would be (I like 20% increase ... good round number, worth the 9 aa's). Could even put a modifier in that makes it a permanent 10% increase in dot damage and life tap damage/heal with a boost to 20% if 5 or more dots are stacked on a single target.
that pet idea sounds interesting. /s 2 could make pet caster mode. /s 3 makes it melee mode.
for runic 1, it's nice to have a pbaoe. i posted in velleitys thread a suggestion of making it do around the damage/ticks of archaic and maybe lower the recast.
defixio why do you think enhanced control isn't useful?
for runic 1, it's nice to have a pbaoe. i posted in velleitys thread a suggestion of making it do around the damage/ticks of archaic and maybe lower the recast.
defixio why do you think enhanced control isn't useful?
defixio
Dalayan Elder
It adds a pitifully small duration increase on a relatively low duration charm and can only be used once every hour and twelve minutes. Other threads seemed to suggest it was 2 ticks. that is more of a detriment to have on your bar in terms of space used compared to the benefit gained.
I'd think it was useful if it let you always check on charm duration, or if it made your charm last a lengthy, flat amount of time, or if it had a much much faster reuse speed. but right now it's kind of disappointing for a 9 aa purchase. not worth it at all. At this point I'd rather have festing curse + recession
I was hoping for old school dire charm when i got it (so i could have a pet actually capable of tanking for me), then was hoping for a thing that helped me make charming mobs viable when i read and researched into it...but what i got was 9 wasted aa
The necro class aa i was most excited about what i got...was Death Imitation.
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It adds a pitifully small duration increase on a relatively low duration charm and can only be used once every hour and twelve minutes. Other threads seemed to suggest it was 2 ticks. that is more of a detriment to have on your bar in terms of space used compared to the benefit gained.
I'd think it was useful if it let you always check on charm duration, or if it made your charm last a lengthy, flat amount of time, or if it had a much much faster reuse speed. but right now it's kind of disappointing for a 9 aa purchase. not worth it at all. At this point I'd rather have festing curse + recession
I was hoping for old school dire charm when i got it (so i could have a pet actually capable of tanking for me), then was hoping for a thing that helped me make charming mobs viable when i read and researched into it...but what i got was 9 wasted aa
The necro class aa i was most excited about what i got...was Death Imitation.
Use Enhanced Control on enchanter pets so they can sustain big time pet DPS over boss encounters.
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
I think these are both amazing ideas. But number one is going to get people bitching about lag.
Number 2 may be the most interesting and creative idea I've seen. Two things on the CC AI. You don't really need to go crazy on it. The necro should know to control the pet. Also, there is the choice of red pet safety versus blue pet danger. ie dot may make fd hard or cc hard in some circumstances. But the ai idea is pretty intriguing and cool with the stance thing.
If you did something like that, you may want to make the pet a runic 1 replacement since that would be more accessible to the server as a whole. Also, runic 2 is actually good for soloing, for short fights under 4 minutes and necro "burst" on longer ones. But really your choice, it sounds fun and dangerous.
The FC replacement aa could become non-damage oriented thing like a forward shadowstep for 100 on a 20 second cooldown. I would frigging have loved this when i used to pull empress room, and other higher level zones. Since these never work 100% anyway because of game physics, you wouldn't need to put a neg in. First nec to 20K under water should get a muffin.
You get 12 1/2 minutes, though it can resist and be lower. If you look at it as an event oriented ability especially if boxing a cleric, it offers possibilities, or if you are part of a group doing an event.
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