Bard Songs stacking

Allielyn

Allielyn

*Pony*
I've brought this up briefly in the balancing discussion, but perhaps it fits here better:

Bard haste stacks with spell haste.

Bard charisma doesn't stack with spell charisma.

Bard regen doesn't stack with spell regen.

I know the haste stacking is intentional. What about the other two?
 
What's the deal with what I've been hearing about overhaste? Will every bard haste stack with a spell haste, or just the special *overhaste* bard songs? Why does the spell database not mention overhaste at all? Ahhhhhh! :mad: .
 
There are 3 (4) types of haste, and they all stack with each other:

Song haste

Spell haste

AA abilities haste

(Item haste)

Now, in the Song haste category there are two types of song haste, a % haste, and a numerical modifier, which I look at as a type of overhaste. The numerical and the % hastes both stack with each other, but one % haste won't stack with another % haste.

According to Wiz:

Since we have no caps, "Overhaste" isn't really an accurate name.
Click to expand...
 
The entire song haste line stacks with sham/enc haste as far as I know.

Bard song Jaxan's Jig O' Vigor doesn't stack with Ancient: Sihala's gift (druid ancient spell) (though it will stack with Acumen).

Bard song Solon's Charismatic Concord doesn't stack with Khura's Focusing (Sham? spell)
 
I know that the Amice of the Golden Dawn clicky haste ("overhaste" as some may call it) does not stack with Relic Song: Fiery Warcry of Tarhyl (also referred to as "overhaste").
 
Wiz said:
Include the names of the songs you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Verses of Celerity does not stack with Empower, correct? It's only the "overhaste" type songs that stack. Like the Relic bard song and a couple others, correct?
 
Bernat said:
Haphesto said:
Allielyn said:
The entire song haste line stacks with sham/enc haste as far as I know.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm trying to confirm. Wiz, can you chime in on that?
Click to expand...
Here you'll find more info.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that helps. One more point to clear up. A lvl 65 bard is telling me that all bard haste songs stack with ench/shaman haste, but only the +stat properties, not the % haste.
 
Haephesto, According to Wiz's post, the haste componenets should stack. If you want to know more, you'll probably have to parse it yourself.


Addition:
Tarhyl's Cry of Destruction (song) does not stack with Grace of the Beast (spell). Both increase spell damage. If this line of spells doesn't stack, I wouldn't be surprised to find Firey Warcry of Tarhyl doesn't stack either.
 
Here are the bard song that i know of that wont stack with certain buffs.


Level: 3
Jaxan`s Jig o` Vigor Group- Buff Stamina Regen.
(Doesn't stack with dru regen acumen anything with sta regen, make it less of a regen make it stack idk)

Level: 59
Solon's Charismatic Concord- Group Buff CHA
(Does not stack with Shm focus or any enc cha buffs plz just fix this i could find lots of uses for this song....)

I wana cry on this next one like seriously plz fix it.

Level: 65
Relic: Fiery Warcry of Tarhyl- Group Buff Haste, Increase Spell Damage
(This does not stack with Cunning of the Beast, I tested ths out with Toccus recently can we plz get a fix for these song wiz.)
 
Allielyn said:
There are 3 (4) types of haste, and they all stack with each other:

Song haste

Spell haste

AA abilities haste

(Item haste)

Now, in the Song haste category there are two types of song haste, a % haste, and a numerical modifier, which I look at as a type of overhaste. The numerical and the % hastes both stack with each other, but one % haste won't stack with another % haste.

According to Wiz:

Since we have no caps, "Overhaste" isn't really an accurate name.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



OK, I am a little confused about the way that different types of haste stack with one another. I have been told that a bard % haste song - the one with the graphic of an arm drawn back with a sword in it - (say, Verses of Victory) doesn't stack with enchanter haste spells; but that the bards numerical haste song - the one with the same graphic as Spritual Purity (wolf howling at moon or something) - DOES stack with enchanter haste.

I have always assumed that enchanter haste (%) stacks with both kinds of bard haste, since I can have all three running and on me at any given time. I was told though, that the % hastes do not stack, just the additional stats that you get from the song. (I hope all that made some sort of sense)

So, the moral of the story is: can I get a definitive response on how this all works? Is it as I was told (only the stats stack, not the hastes) or is it really just as simple as: if the songs/spells stack, then all the effects are being added?

Clarification on this point would be very much appreciated, thank you.
 
Allielyn said:
So, the moral of the story is: can I get a definitive response on how this all works? Is it as I was told (only the stats stack, not the hastes) or is it really just as simple as: if the songs/spells stack, then all the effects are being added?

Clarification on this point would be very much appreciated, thank you.
Click to expand...

In the thread that was linked above (which is the actual origin of your quote):

Wiz said:
There's 3 types of haste. Since we have no caps, "Overhaste" isn't really an accurate name.

Type 1: Normal spell haste
Type 2: Bard song haste, dawn shoulders, guardian of the forest, etc
Type 3: Some AA abilities, enchanter illusion haste, Heavenly Wrath
Click to expand...

I don't think you're going to get any more definitive than what Wiz says. ;)
 
Gah! That's not definitive. It doesn't distinguish between the two types of bard haste, nor classify whether one is considered a spell haste or not.

I figured if an end game bard on the server said it, there had to be some truth to it, but it didn't really make sense given the thread that Wiz spelled it all out in. Clarification, please? Or do I just need to find a good parser and test it all myself?
 
There are two types of bard haste, yes. One is normal spell haste, and the Tribes line of songs have "song haste".
 
Thanks Wiz, for the reply.

So it is true then, that although both the enc and bard spell haste "stack" they don't add? Just the extra effects land?

Would it be possible to code something like this for Firey Warcry of Tarhyl "stacking" with GoTB? That way we wouldn't have totally insane spell dmg increases, but people could get the Beast line's aggro reduction as well as the Tarhyl's song haste both?
 
So what of my bard song stacking suggestions eh wiz? I feel that its really making bards gimp, bard song especially a relic should stack with anything. I can understand why sta song don't work kinda.. makes it usless tho never used it myself would if it stacked tho:)
 
Bards are a "jack of all trades, master of none" type character. They can melee, they can wear heavier armour to let them tank for short periods of time, and they have songs that do everything almost any spell in the game does. Having the ability to replicate all effects doesn't mean that they should all be usable in all situations. Instead, think of it as the ability to fill in the gaps where the group lacks. No enchanter? You have mana regens and mezzes. No shaman? You have stamina regens. No wizard/druid/magician? You have damage shields. Instead of trying to enchance the abilities your group has, pick up where your group lacks. Do that, and I don't see how your songs not stacking with more powerful spells is a problem.
 
What would a bard bring to the group if the group already had a mage+enchanter+shaman, then? Those are pretty common classes due to their usefulness.

That's why stacking is important.
 
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