Bards

This just doesn't make any sense to me. Bards already get a benefit when it comes to clickies as is (you get to immediately take off must-equip clickies prior to them finishing the casting time).

Explain to me what benefits you are looking to get out of this and maybe we can be on the same page here.
 
I am going to say what I said originally and still think, bards play songs that can be done while moving, the act of casting a spell takes more concentration thus you cannot continue to run/melee/cast 2 spells at once (like you can beneficial songs). You already have a lot going for you I would not press your luck pushing for this just to get something else nerfed.
 
Emerica said:
It brings back the idea that bards are a very versitle class.
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at what point did bards turn into a not very versatile class?

how will this proposed change fix the assertion that bards are not a very versatile class?
 
Obscenitor said:
This just doesn't make any sense to me. Bards already get a benefit when it comes to clickies as is (you get to immediately take off must-equip clickies prior to them finishing the casting time).

Explain to me what benefits you are looking to get out of this and maybe we can be on the same page here.
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When I look at the benefit you mentioned, it seems to be more of a convenience than much else. When bards cast these clickies in the current state they are able to swap out items instantly, as mentioned, but still gain nothing from this. They still must wait the cast time for usage, and do not get to attack or cast other spells or items until the previous one has been completed or casted.


Moraelintz said:
I am going to say what I said originally and still think, bards play songs that can be done while moving, the act of casting a spell takes more concentration thus you cannot continue to run/melee/cast 2 spells at once (like you can beneficial songs). You already have a lot going for you I would not press your luck pushing for this just to get something else nerfed.
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I do acknowledge the stance from where you are coming from with this statement. Finding that balance for this class is very very challenging. The proposed fix in this thread hopefully for most bards/devs/people showcases the gain of one underlying theme for the class as opposed to a split of this class does this only sometimes. I don't know specifically what they(the developement team) would want in return for this. Being able to utilize these clickies while moving and encorporating the same mechanics that are currently in place for songs take nothing away from what the class can do already with or without them.

sheer1 said:
at what point did bards turn into a not very versatile class?

how will this proposed change fix the assertion that bards are not a very versatile class?
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Its a tough call on this one man. Are you wanting this to be directed towards raiding or just bards in general? My statement was geared more towards the every day bard instead of the raiding bard. Versitiliy is great, is what this class is founded on as well as we both know. In the raiding enviroment we are limited in terms of this. In 6 man content we get more songs at our finger tips to allow for more of this. For the every day bard or lower tier bard this is much more limited. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong direction. If so some other opinions for change would be welcomed. I do feel strongly that asking to tweak spells or focus effects(eventhough I want to save mana so badly) to make up for this would be too much of a gain instead of asking to change how clicks function for bards.
 
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Emerica said:
Nwaij said:
Do I understand this right: This entire thread wouldn't exist if bards used the same mechanic for clickys that they use for starting songs?
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Yes.
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Okay, then I have THE perfect solution for you. It will make you happy, cause clickys will share the same mechanic as starting songs. It will make the rest of us happy, cause it won't make bards stronger in any way - in fact it will make them a tad less OP. So here goes:

Make it so that bard songs can not be casted on the run any more, just like no other class can cast on the run.
 
I have a better alternative, let them cast everything on the run, but are no longer affected by thier own songs.
 
Nwaij said:
Okay, then I have THE perfect solution for you. It will make you happy, cause clickys will share the same mechanic as starting songs. It will make the rest of us happy, cause it won't make bards stronger in any way - in fact it will make them a tad less OP. So here goes:

Make it so that bard songs can not be casted on the run any more, just like no other class can cast on the run.
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If thats what the team thinks is best. Taking away an embeded foundation of a class for something that changes nothing Im not sure if that gets the point across. If you want to elaborate on why this class is currently over powered and propose some changes that find a nice middle ground I would be willing to drop the whole thing and we can start a new thread thats more on topic. To me this one was thing that smoothed out a rough edged idea of a class, while following through on 80% of the class mechanics, and making a transitional jump through levels and tiers more streamlined.
 
There actually is plenty that is wrong with this class. This one idea just seemed to be not only the easiest way to fix a small problem, but also allowed for a great class mechanic to work for everything the class does.

Would it be better for me to make posts about bard spells? I can list off quite a few things we get that are slightly better versions of themselves that continue on through our runics. Or how we are now not a manaless class like we used to be. I always through it was weird that only at level 65 did spells start to take mana. Maybe how bards dont gain any benefits from instrument mods like other classes who get focus effects? What a drag huh, my spells cost just as much as yours do now. What about aggro and threat generation post tier 10? You mean I still only get 1 jolt ever? What about songs that get glitched after casting, or pulse timers not pulsing on some of the songs? No you are right, asking for a small fix that helps new bards is so terrible of me.
 
all your responses to people are extremely vague and reenforce the notion that you really don't have any good reason for this request. if there is some mechanic specifically that you have an issue about regarding bard songs then you should post that instead of this thread about nothing.

edit: except dont post about focus effects again
 
Emerica said:
If you want to elaborate on why this class is currently over powered and propose some changes that find a nice middle ground I would be willing to drop the whole thing and we can start a new thread thats more on topic.
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Bards provide decent dps while also giving substantial buffs to the raid(often content cannot be done without bard buffs). These attributes alone make them a very worthwhile addition to any raid, but on top of this they can offtank, mez, kite, charm, help with pulling, etc. Bards are required for most on-tier 6man content, and still great at the rest of it.

With that said, I advocate no changes at all. Yeah sure they are a strong class. Other classes are very strong as well in their own ways, but the game as a whole has fairly good balance.

I get what your saying, its not a big change, and it would be a nice little tweak, but it does make you slightly stronger, and since bards are already a very solid class people are just not going to like that.
 
I can't think of many clickies my bard has (beyond gate necks) that would serve me much benefit that moving while casting them would matter. And while he may have full relics, his gear and aa's is still tier 4-ish at best. So I fail to see how this helps a lower tier toon I guess. Sure, I could use a heal clickie (there is a few now) for those times when kiting and a mob got to close I guess. Or a root clickie, I guess. But as you said, you could just SotW (how many low tier bards get that early on though?) and run off to the zone-line. I guess I just don't see this massive upside you see to it. And as Nwaij pointed out, they would just nerf something else to give it to you. Bards are pretty unique and versatile as is, and while the nerfs in the recent past have made them no longer mandatory for every 6-man, they still bring more than enough to the table to warrant their inclusion in a group.
 
Emerica said:
Bards get to miss out on alot of mechanics in this game that other people get to take advantage of while climbing through the tiers.
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on wikipedia this is what they call "weasel words"

vague, generalizing, acting as if anyone/everyone agrees with you, completely ignoring the fact why you don't benefit from focus effects - you get an entirely unique self-improvement system called instruments

this is reaching thanman status complaining about one of the best classes in the game.

also, a lot is two words.
 
yeah, I'm not really sure what the argument here is either-- certainly doesnt have anything to do with clickies.

Anyway, as far as focus effects, instrument mods greatly outweigh the bonuses that these give anyway (and make progression much more interesting in my opinion)

That being said - i DO think that itemization of worn instrument mods should be looked at in the higher tiers. For instance, there are roughly 8 worn wind mods at tier 10 and above, and only TWO worn stringed mods, which are in inconvenient slots. there are so many items that a 2.5-2.7 string mod would fit nicely on.


-Ara
 
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Its cool I thought I would revisit the idea after a couple months of making sure I had clickies that people mentioned that I didnt to see if it would be an issue.
No big deal, to me it looked like a solid class mechanic change, to everyone else I guess not.

Might as well post another thread Ara, you guys can trash this one.
 
It's a day later, so I thought I'd echo Lumineve here:

Arael, that's not something you want to just post here. It's totally worth making a new, cool, informative post in Classes and Gear, though. You should do that. Soon.
 
Spoiler, you can move around and finish spells, just make sure your at the same spot when the spell completes, as you where when you started the spell.
 
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