Codex of Power Revamp

theres a lot of places that drop tome 1s and are easily accessible with lower gear. tome 2s always have been pretty expensive so that isnt anything new but the big thing is people bidding pretty huge amounts of money on certain tomes. It can also help some newer dudes out by making some cash selling a book that drops in a zone like cmal or everchill or front first ruins or kaesora. If people really need books that badly you can take a group to kaesora and share books with each other.

Actually all the tomes are more expensive the #2's are even MORE expensive. I am finding purchasing tomes to be extremely difficult and I have alot of money. To say go get tomes as a solution to the problems created by this change is alot like saying play more as a solution to the codexs themselves.... and btw tome dropage in old world is terrible assuming newer dudes can even kill the mobs that will actually drop tomes(in case you've forgotten what is like to be lower tier, first ruins, everchill, deepshade, kaesora and catacombs are not easy), also assuming they can get a group going to even go there, so that they can get something to put xp into so that they can group, sounds like a paradox almost. At the end they also have to split as well, which even in a high tier group can be very little money and tomes cant be cut into 6 pieces. Wasn't it easier and more convenient in every way for them to just xp a large tome that they could buy off of a merchant?

this is what I did while working on cops back in the day.

The CoP's don't exist anymore, so they don't have the luxury of doing this. Oddly enough this is what made the tome system work, you had time to gather tomes while not going broke doing your first ones. By doing this change it changed the foundation of how tomes worked and changed the tome paradigm, You are now at the mercy of other players at day 1. when you make a change like this, a total revamp is in order and not just one thing adjusted, or xp reimbursed, especially when it is done at the 11th hour.

Yale
<Exodus>
 
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While I'm not inclined to totally agree with Yale, he does have a point.

Players graduating from AA's to tomes really are at the mercy of others; at the moment, it is either pay out the ass for a tome to exp, or don't exp anything at all. Codex's were cheap, long lasting, and readily available at any given time. I can see how the current system (while I do like it better, tbh) has some drawbacks.

If newer tomes were implemented with this change, it would help a lot more. But the main drawback that Yale is trying to convey is that tomes are scarce, expensive, and removing CoP's has only intensified this.
 
Playing more almost always gets you more in this game. Welcome to Shards. You can always get more money, you can always get more tomes, you can always get more exp, these problems tend to resolve themselves in time. We have an economy in game, demand for tomes is high, but as a result, I have seen many more groups in tome dropping areas than I have in a long time. If you have a complaint that can't be solved with the basic game mechanics and time, I suggest you make post in Suggestions & Requests
 
Playing more almost always gets you more in this game. Welcome to Shards. You can always get more money, you can always get more tomes, you can always get more exp, these problems tend to resolve themselves in time. We have an economy in game, demand for tomes is high, but as a result, I have seen many more groups in tome dropping areas than I have in a long time. If you have a complaint that can't be solved with the basic game mechanics and time, I suggest you make post in Suggestions & Requests

I am far from new to this server.
I would disagree that most problems work themselves out, the decline of the server is proof of that is not the case, they just pile up and spin out of control. I have been noticing a decline in playing from the people I generally associate if not an all together cease, since these changes went in. I'm not here to argue with people, but just want to voice my opinion in saying that this change does not help new players, which was apparently its selling point, in fact I think it hurt them badly.
I do agree that more groups have been seen fighting in cita and BQ , but the vast majority if not all the time they are not new players they are people from eternity, SF, Resurg and SV, How exactley is this helping new players again?.....

Yale
<Exodus>
 
From my experience, even before the tome change open groups are far less common. Almost all my groups are now within the guild. Which is unfortunate because so many of them have run out of tomes to do. Whenever I see groups, they usually have the same tag, or someone is boxing a the odd man out.
 
I feel that the 'decline' of the server is not proof towards problems not fixing themselves, given time. The CoP change is helping the new players by giving them less of a hurdle to pass into the 'tomes' segment of the game's content, as discussed previously in this thread. In the long run it will help new players, IMO. Currently tome prices seem higher than normal, but from personal experience, I have gotten plenty of tomes at the 'typical' price. Eventually the market for tomes will stop freaking out and this will be a non-issue.
 
This game change increased tome demand on a permanent basis, without the increase in the amount of drops or new tomes to do.

Yale
<Exodus>
 
Player demand for tomes will drop eventually, and more people will form groups to get them, it will balance out. Most players don't have a demand for more tomes than are already available, so I'm not sure what your point is. It would be nice if we saw a small bump in tome drop chances ofc, but it is not necessary.
 
Adding tomes to old world zones, well in advance of this change going live, was most certainly an increase in available tomes. The real issue is, that people didn't prepare in advance for this change, and stockpile tomes to use the xp on. So now they are scrambling to get them, and that is what causes the rapid price increases we have. once most of those people have filled tomes to use that xp, prices will fall back down. As for hurting newer players, it may cause issue with their charm farming fund, but everybody here on the forums says that having a lesser charm isn't an issue till much later (t9-10 area), so they should be fine. Just need to save cash for tomes while you grind out aa's is all.
 
so I'm not sure what your point is.

What I was trying to say is that this codex change needed more to coinside with it for it to be more productive than destructive. This may belong in the suggestions and requests, but I would rather post it here where I feel it belongs

Imo this is what needed to be done hand in hand with the codex changes.

1. Increased tome dropage in old world zones off of mundane mobs. People need options for places to fight based on more than 1 factor such as people who play with just one friend, solo or that are lower tier as examples. That way people are not at the mercy of other people in order to play the game, tomes are far too rare in old world, well I guess in general they are far too rare, but definitely not enough in old world to justify going there and the mobs that drop them are difficult to impossible for lower tier characters, at least the very few I've seen drop them.

Adding tomes to old world zones, well in advance of this change going live, was most certainly an increase in available tomes..
By having them drop in old world zones pre- codex change , you only got less tomes by going there than if you went to BQ or Cita or even Kaesora, so the idea there was an increase in tomes due to this is probably not very accurate, because that assumption implies that people were standing by ready to group there because the "better" tome zones were taken. There was a point not long ago where I even questioned if tomes could even drop off anything but named mobs in old world zones. that is not a good sign

I would also recommend AND OR with #1, a tome vendor of some type to be put in to help control the price of tomes if it is that tomes are going to not be equal with one another. Paying almost a good charm price for 1 tome.... Sitting around asking in auction WTB Tome of the mind 2 paying 40k, 45k,50k, for weeks, months... This is a deterrent warding people away from wanting to play this game. GL getting that tome over me new player:)

2. Tomes should be adjusted to be more balanced with one another. They don't need to be perfect, but they need to be somewhat comparable, Critcal evo or healing versus a save tome or stat tome.... I mean do saves even do anything anymore.... Can the stat tomes the way they are even be quantified in gameplay?

3.
The CoP change is helping the new players by giving them less of a hurdle to pass into the 'tomes' segment of the game's content, as discussed previously in this thread. .
The eradication of the opus and class 3 and 4 would be my next changes. What good is access to the tome segment of the game if the vast majority of new people are likely not going to be able to or have by chance the right situation to where they will ever get access to more than 50% of what is available tome wise. Without the codexs of power and not counting the nearly impossible to acquire emberflow tomes, there are not very many tomes and they don't take long to fill up, especially for classes that do not have 3rd class tomes. Tomes imo should have 4 parts that everyone can have access too,without this, this codex change has become the coupe de grace for alot of people xp wise and a future short run for people who are newer (assuming they dont quit before due to getting tired of trying to acquire their tomes). There is no good reason for the servers sake as to why the majority of people playing should only have access to 50% of the available tomes when that is one of only a few universal progressive things people can do as entertainment and motivation to play this game, regardless of game play style.... This baffles me entirely.

4. Finished #3 tomes. I was surprised when this didn't go in with the codex changes.

People may not agree with me on everything or something, but I believe we both share the love of this game or we wouldn't waste time talking about it outside of playing. I wouldn't feel good if I did not state what I thought.
Changing the codexs will do nothing, nothing to help retain or draw in new players without other changes to compliment it to make the server more diverse. Diversity was why we had numbers years ago not magic, not something some guild did, it was because we had not ran everyone else off...yet.
Regardless of the post, I keep finding myself repeating the same thing over and over and over.... the root of the problem in this game and why it cannot retain players and has trouble getting people is because it does its best to have a very limited audience, but it doesn't have to be that way..

Yale
<Exodus>
 
I have been playing very little since the CoP change. I turned in 11 tomes and still have 60aa worth left. I finished the tome I was working on and have been unable to find a new tome. Of the 10 or so tomes i have left before opus, most are very rare and being auctioned for 30k+. With nothing to exp I am not very motivated to go duo kae for tomes just hoping for one i can use, buying a tome for 30-50k is also not appealing, saving money for supreme is a better idea long term, already I will exp all my tomes before opus before making enough for charm.

Should have and maybe still should implement a "Journal" Basically a blank tome that can be exped and turned into vaulted exp like the CoPs were. This lets people go earn exp while they farm for new tomes, earning AA again isn't fun.
 
I have never heard of anyone getting to around 50 tomes or so who wasn't atleast attempting to raid up to opuses, which are rewards for raid content, so this take on the issue seems a bit skewed to me. Also, Shards, iirc, has always started out with a specific vision, which is that it was Wiz's way to do EQ. While this may lean towards a particular audience, you'd have to change the whole spirit of the game to accomodate many of the suggestions the players have submitted here on the forums, Shards is the way it is for a reason and that is what makes it Shards.

I agree that I'd like to see the full pantheon of tomes implemented.
 
Don't you mean 15k?

Yale
<Exodus>
Haha,even better.

and btw tome dropage in old world is terrible assuming newer dudes can even kill the mobs that will actually drop tomes(in case you've forgotten what is like to be lower tier, first ruins, everchill, deepshade, kaesora and catacombs are not easy),
<Exodus>

Just saying,got a tome of Arbitrator Natalus,a mob I remember camping with a high 50s group.
Maybe there are more of this kinda easy tome droppers just noone killing them so we dont know yet.
 
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opus are a pretty huge part of character progression after tier 11, and afaik were designed to be that way rather than an extension of the regular tome system. Also, I saw a quote about emberflow tomes being nearly impossible to get, however a mob that drops a third of the emberflow tomes will sit up for days at a time completely untouched. I do agree that with a permanent increase in tome demand the current drop rate for tome 2s and even tome 1s is pretty horrible, maybe buff citadels tome drop rate because quite frankly that place has horrible EXP and not that great of money compared to many other zones. There was talk before of making citadel the tome zone so maybe that is something to be considered
 
Also on a side note there is 55 buyable tomes (including pet tomes) available to every class in the game, 58 for classes with 3. If you manage to exp all of those books and not be in a guild that can kill thaz monsters for opus chance or spires trash for opus chance, then that is pretty impressive.

EDIT: double side note what will be implemented for people like jraul and erude who have beat almost all of the opus in the game? They want things to exp and a reason to play this game too
 
opus are a pretty huge part of character progression after tier 11, and afaik were designed to be that way rather than an extension of the regular tome system.

Imo that system and idea are dated and need to catch up with the times. Withholding nearly half the tomes that exist for a elite few people is a stupid idea when many people are running out of things to put xp into.

I saw a quote about emberflow tomes being nearly impossible to get, however a mob that drops a third of the emberflow tomes will sit up for days at a time completely untouched.

I have a few what I call SoDisms and one of them is, if something is up regularly it generally means its too hard, or not worth the time. If your referring to MB , he is much too difficult for his tier, IMO.

Everything else is always dead and to expect "normal" game players to be able to catch these mobs up, be on tier or over tier, know their strat, have people waiting to help them, beat other people there (that never log off and watch these mobs all day long ) and then have the time to kill it and maybe time for a 2nd chance in case things go wrong is absolutely ludicrous. Even with all of that they don't necessarily get a tome..........


EDIT: double side note what will be implemented for people like jraul and erude who have beat almost all of the opus in the game? They want things to exp and a reason to play this game too

No offense intended directly to them, but It is not the responsibility of the server to cater to the irresponsibility of players. There is an endgame and should be, but it needs to be at the same point, regardless of playing style

Also on a side note there is 55 buyable tomes (including pet tomes) available to every class in the game, 58 for classes with 3. If you manage to exp all of those books and not be in a guild that can kill thaz monsters for opus chance or spires trash for opus chance, then that is pretty impressive.

If your looking for people as examples you don't need to look very far <----

The idea that because you are in a guild that can or is killing in Turj or spires somehow automatically means you can or will get tomes is a fallacy. People who imply this seem to be making many assumptions on various factors. The problem lies in-between the point of logging on and looting the item, there is not one contingency there are 100 and the only way to reduce these contingencies is to simply not log off. That is why SoD has such a difficult time getting new people and even older ones to stay. The less the playing time the more the odds become like winning the lotto.

Yale
<Exodus>
 
I have a few what I call SoDisms and one of them is, if something is up regularly it generally means its too hard, or not worth the time. If your referring to MB , he is much too difficult for his tier, IMO.
I pray to god they never change this fight and make it easier it is hands down the funnest fight in the game on tier currently. Its hard because it should be. The loot is good, not over powered (except maybe silence but really monks and bsts have to sacrifice both weps to get full use out of silence so IMO not OP at all.

Just because you dont have something to put exp doesnt mean you are done with the game there is still many things for you to do.
1) Be social
2) farm for charm money
3) help other players
4) try raiding make a pug etc
5) maybe you should try some tradeskills?
6) maybe try some other content that is on teir or find a relaxed guild that raids a few times a week that you can attend a majority of the time.
7) make an alt

Also those who play more than you will ALWAYS have more than you. its the nature of MMOs
 
With 2.5 maybe about to happen the following might not be completely terrible ideas:

1. Shitcan tomes. Replace effects with AAs. Refund using the CoP refund system. Tomes were created to "solve" a problem that is now correctable in a direct way.
2. Create several expendable AAs so people will "always" have a reason to xp. Expendable AAs that give temporary power boosts, faction boosts, cash money, or whatever else people can think of.
3. Where appropriate, replace the opportunity lost from nodrop tomes going bye bye with augment drops. Add a new augment# slot to virtually all "jewelry" items to accommodate these new augs. Either:
-Allow tradeskillers to make inferior augs for that slot for nonraiders and just because tradeskillers deserve all the love we can give.
-Use an existing bounty system aug slot# to make those augs (and doing bounties) more appealing
 
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