Codex of Power Revamp

[Moraelintz]

I do not think anyone is arguing that hanging out with friends is not a prime motivator for SoD.

Lets assume that we want lots and lots of experience before maxing your character so you can hang out with friends. Even then, the way the CoPower is implemented is a generally uninteresting and boring way to go about it. Hanging out with friends is great, hanging out with friends progressing your character in interesting ways is even better.

Taking out "Generic Exp Blob For Power" has two effects on this front. First, it might lower the amount of time it takes to do higher content, catching up to old friends or allowing you to meet new friends. This means you can get up to "legitimacy" quicker, even though it may take the same time to max your character out. Not everyone comes into SoD with a group of friends - and for many of those people hitting 65 is a harrowing experience to try and make some. This does not prevent that problem, but it should help mitigate it somewhat.

Second, it lets the devs put in experience avenues that are more interesting and engaging. Right now the CoPower is almost a requirement before going on to a bunch of more interesting tomes, and is also a reason more tomes are not put in.


So although I agree with you when you say that lowering the amount of time to hang with bros could be detrimental, I do not think removing the CoPower would necessarily lower the amount of time you have to hang with bros. Even further, I am not against replacing it with some other type of sink (which is why I asked for suggestions on that front).

Thank you very much for the response.

In my opinion if you are looking at overhauling the CoP are you should also look at all of the books minus class and emberflow tome. Each other book is just a flat increase to 1 individual focus, or stat/overcap stat.

The thing that I really like about the CoP is that they are 'all encompassing' and even though every class does not recieve the same quality of benefit it is beneficial. Also, I like that you do not have to complete it to start recieving benefits.

In regards to the options I like option 2 the best, but will have to be balanced around diety spec bonus.

 

[Valv]

A very large portion of SoD is built on grinding exp... If people hate it so much, maybe SoD isn't their type of game...

Fixed that for you.

This is a grind based game and CoP are not even close to the worst of it. There is already a ton of required questing to break into the raid game (coi/sc/bs, MQ, Vah, murk/refuge ect ect) if you think this is easier and more enjoyable than grinding exp grps where you make money toward a charm(the real grind) and advance your char in a meaningful way you have clearly not done much questing. Killing a ton of green/lb cons is boring. Sitting around waiting for something to spawn is boring. Collecting ground spawns is boring. Waiting weeks for a mob to spawn because its a bottleneck that gets camped and killed as soon as it spawns is boring. Questing is not a good idea to replace CoP. If you wanted to delete CoP it should have been done a few years ago.

Unless your proposed quest rains Pp onto you the charm grind is just going to be worse and lol@anyone who thinks they are getting into a raid guild w/o 225k charm and working hard for eternal+

New players are not worried about CoP, they struggle to get AA done. If you want to make things easier for new people make the 500+ AA grind faster, it is the exact same exp as CoP5 but is harder because new people cannot farm exp as fast as high tier people. By the time you finish all AA you can raid anything up to t9 and exp better(good luck tanking anything before finishing most AA) CoP is not as big of a block for new people as finishing AA.

 

[Emerica]

All of these ideas in a roundabout way sound like they all do the same thing, which is already in existence. I don't get why this is even a thing. Hope that's constructive enough.

 

[oozu1234]

I appreciate all your input Waldoff, but i'd really like to see suggestions and feedback on our suggestions and etc etc from the other developers if at all possible! Its just nice to see a collection of the staff sharing ideas and thoughts!

 

[dracosf22]

Fixed that for you.

Unless your proposed quest rains Pp onto you the charm grind is just going to be worse and lol@anyone who thinks they are getting into a raid guild w/o 225k charm and working hard for eternal+
.

This isn't anywhere close to true, we have number of toons in our raid force who recently got their 100k charm at t10. Prophecy seems to recruit anyone who has a pulse and they are reaching the end of t9. Is a better charm a good thing? Absolutely, but it certainly does not prove that person is a good button presser, anyone can timesink a charm.

 

[Slayer90]

oik

This isn't anywhere close to true, we have number of toons in our raid force who recently got their 100k charm at t10. Prophecy seems to recruit anyone who has a pulse and they are reaching the end of t9. Is a better charm a good thing? Absolutely, but it certainly does not prove that person is a good button presser, anyone can timesink a charm.

yeah im not even sure what all this hoopla is about. We dont just pick up anyone who has pluse we get what we need to keep our 6 nights a week rolling and every night someone is progression wether they are raiding wiht us or they are off exping becuse we have a full force. What this server seems to lack is a little bit more commitment to grinding AA's and getting TO tomes. Tomes are not overly important till you start dipping in to t10+ imo and thats about where ikithish starts in teirs over the most of the OW game. Most of this tread is just people whining because they dont exp as much as others or dont have the "gear /AA ' to xp with ohters. I know most the other guilds want to stay in a "Progression" status for there guild where they dont ever back gear or do minimal back gearing this hurts the new people who hit 65 and are looking for aguild, or get gear, especially when there are no low teir guilds like t2-4 recuriting to progress with so thats what i did i expanded out raiding recurited more and now we have a force wiht people who normally wouldnt make the cut to get into FA/Companions/CW etc. all those fresh 65's i recurited now have 200+AA and working on finsihing the rest.. its not a GAME issue is a player issue.

 

[Valv]

This isn't anywhere close to true, we have number of toons in our raid force who recently got their 100k charm at t10. Prophecy seems to recruit anyone who has a pulse and they are reaching the end of t9. Is a better charm a good thing? Absolutely, but it certainly does not prove that person is a good button presser, anyone can timesink a charm.

I was talking specifically about raid guilds that are serious about CoP5 and lots of tomes done to join. I said anyone with AA done can raid up to t9. If a guild rejects you because you have less then 10 tomes they will also reject you for having a bad charm. Try apping to fwf/cw/sb as a tank with a 100k charm, Even with 20 tomes I bet they wouldn't take you.

Proph also spends a ton of time backgearing in t7ish zones that do not require anything close to cop1 or 100k charms and the use of ringers obviously drops the requirements on the rest of the raid.

If anyone can timesink a charm the same can be said about timesinking a CoP and as i said before, i finished CoP5 before i have eternal(not even 1/2 way to the best charm) charms are much worse to farm and there is a reason nearly every fwf raider has a supreme, the boost in power they give is bigger than any other item in the game and the higher tier content is balanced around having lots of them in your raid.

You may have a handful of people with 100k charms but I bet you also have plenty with supremes/eternals that carry them. I never mentioned skill, talking about wall to entry in raiding.

 

[Slayer90]

I was talking specifically about raid guilds that are serious about CoP5 and lots of tomes done to join. I said anyone with AA done can raid up to t9. If a guild rejects you because you have less then 10 tomes they will also reject you for having a bad charm. Try apping to fwf/cw/sb as a tank with a 100k charm, Even with 20 tomes I bet they wouldn't take you.

Proph also spends a ton of time backgearing in t7ish zones that do not require anything close to cop1 or 100k charms and the use of ringers obviously drops the requirements on the rest of the raid.

If anyone can timesink a charm the same can be said about timesinking a CoP and as i said before, i finished CoP5 before i have eternal(not even 1/2 way to the best charm) charms are much worse to farm and there is a reason nearly every fwf raider has a supreme, the boost in power they give is bigger than any other item in the game and the higher tier content is balanced around having lots of them in your raid.

You may have a handful of people with 100k charms but I bet you also have plenty with supremes/eternals that carry them. I never mentioned skill, talking about wall to entry in raiding.

no we dont most our raidforce main core and secondary(backgear) has 100k or less only 4people tops may have a 500k or 1mil charm. and possibly i know 9/10 of our force is ata 100k or 38k charm. And yes i do agree we do use "RINGERS" on our back gear nights but on our mian core progression, we dont. And damn near every ringer on our secondary raids are our people from our main force, wiht the excpetion of like 1 toon, and we drop them when someone logs on who is avaliable to raid. not to just use to push people though but to fill a missing slot.

And just like you said i also finsihed my cops way before i even had my 220k charm. People may see cop's as a time sink i see it as a way to progress your character, is the benifit from cops = to the amount of time you put into them? yes i do. 4% bonus over several catagorys is useful for many class's is it for all? Possibly not, and imo that is wher the change needs to be made.

 

[Valv]

no we dont most our raidforce main core and secondary(backgear) has 100k or less only 4people tops may have a 500k or 1mil charm. and possibly i know 9/10 of our force is ata 100k or 38k charm..

was talking about companions.

 

[odizzido2]

I still don't see the problem with tomes and honestly like it the way it is, but if you're looking to get rid of them one way is to abandon classes. Let any class get any skill in the game and you will have people with low xp be able to fill specific roles in high end areas. People with more xp will be able to fill more roles. If you're worried about things getting overpowered limit the number of abilities people can have at once, and make it changeable only in town.

If you're looking for something more EQey you can either make CoP take 20AAsXthe level of CoP or make them give more benefit for lower ones. First gives 7%, second 5%, third 3%, and then 1% forever after that or something.

 

[Slayer90]

was talking about companions.

ah ok, and yeah i dont see the big issue with tomes either other then it being a little unbalanced per class. some get huge benifites some mediocre and some very little. i mean all in all the way this thread seems to be going isnt really gonna solve much, even if you open sod3.0 and have more AA's everything is still gonna be a "time sink" to someone who cant play as often as others.

 

[eqaddix_diosa3]

How about we focus on maybe getting those place holder tomes done before messing with COPs?

Kind of frustrating to get Opus 3 and 4 PHer tomes on raids.

 

[Ulandx]

I think CopS are fine as they are and there are more burning issues to fix:
Loot revamp in old world zones to bring them on par with Ikild,the Freeport normal mobs drop
just look like as they were just copied over from live decaying skeleton loot table entry,cant be
too hard to add a few plat.
Deity quests/augs ar still unfinished.

 

[Tevinter]

On of the reasons guilds look at people who have tomes/charms favorably isnt because they want to make the raid force stronger immediately, it shows the person is dedicated to the game and has a higher play time. One of the worst things, and moreso at higher tiers, is funneling loot into somebody to have them quit in 2 weeks

 

[Waldoff]

People posting in this forum are required to follow these rules:

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=27951

If you do not think you can, you should stop being a part of the conversation. We are working really hard to try and create a platform where we can have open discussion with players about game issues. These rules are the agreement you make in exchange for participating in that.

It was recently updated, so we have not been taking peoples Game Dev forum access away for small breaches, but at some point we are going to start.

 

[sheer1]

On of the reasons guilds look at people who have tomes/charms favorably isnt because they want to make the raid force stronger immediately, it shows the person is dedicated to the game and has a higher play time. One of the worst things, and moreso at higher tiers, is funneling loot into somebody to have them quit in 2 weeks

this is sort of a good point. with a free game its hard to gauge who you raid with will be there in another month or two, and tomes/charm is really the best indicator of this. Not that a person needs to have max tomes/charm asap but that they seem to care and be actively progressing.

going from AAs to the codexes is such a huge jump in 'grinding required' that some players will get bored or burnt out before getting even 1 or 2 finished. this is why i was leaning towards proposal 2. Work the power boost into specializations or something so players can jump right into the quicker and more targeted Ikisith tomes.

edit: ill add that im bias and have never really been a big fan of tomes and how they impact the game. so yea. xpable raid drops, or some kind of aesthetic changes as the goal of grinding always seemed like the best idea to get players to continue playing.

 

[oozu1234]

People posting in this forum are required to follow these rules:

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=27951

If you do not think you can, you should stop being a part of the conversation. We are working really hard to try and create a platform where we can have open discussion with players about game issues. These rules are the agreement you make in exchange for participating in that.

It was recently updated, so we have not been taking peoples Game Dev forum access away for small breaches, but at some point we are going to start.

should add this to your front page post!

 

[null1fy]

I have only done two of five CoP but they are deplorable and option 2 is a much better idea.

#2.

 

[donfolstar3]

Neither of those Proposals seems particularly appealing. #1 punishes certain classes for doing more than punching and #2 just seems like a convoluted and not-time-spend-on-3.0 solution to a simple problem.

The most efficient, direct, and overall good ideas in this thread are:

-Change CoP from 110AA each to scaling up (Raxton had a nice chart on Page 1). This requires zero retroactive changes for people done with CoP and a slide ruler for anyone currently working on CoP.
-Offically state that the end goal with tomes is to get 3.0 up and running then dismantle tomes entirely- so minimal work solutions and people bothered by tomes taking a chill pill becomes law.
-Increase XP across the board

I humbly suggest tying that last one to server funds, i.e. which of the 5 'server funds' is lit on the mainpage gives an increasing amount of server wide xp bonus.

 

[Anti Eh]

get rid of codex's and make an experience vendor that sells stuff like a Onetime Token that Resets Deity.