Codex of Power Revamp

An XP vendor is a great idea imo.

As for what to do with the CoPs...I think breaking them down into more specialized tomes is the way to go, but keep one Codex of Power in the game as an xp checking account. Run out of AAs but can't afford a tome? Fill your last useful tome and don't have any others to do b/c your Opus of Poopsockery IV JUST WON'T FRIGGIN DROP!?!?!?! Crack open that CoP, son, and store those phat xps to spend later.

Pull xp out of your CoP to fill a new tome (possibly at a fractional ratio as opposed to a full 1:1 as a convinience tax, and there should probably be a % cap on how much of a tome you can fill from your CoP)

Spend some at the XP Vendor to buy SoD mugs, fireworks, illusion clickers, or even (dare I say it?) plat at a fractional ratio to soften the charm-woes.

XP-buy some bounty tokens maybe? Or some treasure maps? Or maybe some no-drop items like a Melwin's Idol or some fame point rewards?

Set up automatic withdraws from your CoP for monthly Title maintenance!

Most of these are awful ideas, but the main thing I think is a winner is having a CoP hang out as something to literally just dump xp into for future use. Even if you don't get a full return (or even a good return) on that xp, at least you aren't wasting it on nothing.

As I've mentioned before, I still also think XP should be spendable on consumable or status-symbol things, because 1) They're cool as shit and 2) they're cool as shit.
 
Codex of Battle: 20% Melee, Pet Melee and Ranged Damage. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Healing: 20% Healing increase. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Evocation: 20% to all damage spells and songs. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

While I see where you're trying to break it down so that there's technically only 3, what about pet damage for the non melee type classes?

Add in a Pet Melee tome as an additional, lower AA cost "codex" & take it away from the battle one (or just put pet damage into all tomes, so pet classes don't have to do addtional).

Most druids won't give a crap about melee or ranged damage, but we want our bears/frogs to actually do damage. Ditto with Shamans, they want their wolves to kick butt. Same with mages, necros.

If it could not break the code too much that you could do more than one codex (example with druids doing both healing & evocation, making sure that the additional 20% pet damage was only added in once) I'd say that pet damage for all to keep non melee classes (mages & necros specifically) from feeling like they had to do all three to get full power from their class would work best.

Oh, if you couldn't tell, I love the idea of the splitting of Codexes. I also like Raxton's idea of scaling up, so the first couple don't feel so horrid.
 
The current Wold suggestion includes the ability to do any and all of these. That way, you could just immediately do all of Codex Battle, Healing, and Evocation and be right back where you were.
 
The point of breaking them up is more of a mental thing because you get incrimental benefits while working on them, you don't have to have them completed before swing the benefits.
 
I know I already stated this, but that was many pages ago. It seems like proposal one, doesn't fix the problem (the wall) but just lowers it, whereas proposal two is a solution that removes the wall all together.

A lot of the comments appear to be, "I was able to do it, so it cannot be that bad." Or, "I had to do it they should, too." It seems like you are still having the hurdles to jump through, which would be contrary to the goal of removing one of the hurdles.
 
Pretty much the entire staff feels that the Codex of Power has been a bit of a failed experiment. What was once meant as something for people to slowly accomplish (and that was expected only a few people would do) has become a near-necessity for a new player to get him or herself into a raid guild. Ironically, perception has it that even guilds that are in tiers that were released before CoPower even existed, require at least some time spent into CoPowers.

I, as a player, like the idea of Codex of Power. I am still unsure of why the staff feels they are a "failed experiment". If the staff is surprised by the fact that people have drive to reach objectives that make their character more powerful then I guess it should just been seen as a learning experience. This should be seen as a positive because people like to play your game, in large periods of time. There will always be the hard core group of people in ever MMO that will eat up content like it is nothing. Developers will sit back and be amazed that people already killed / finished said content as the group of hard core players buy more socks.

Balancing the game around this Hardcore group and casual players might just be impossible. So don't feel bad that there is a false barrier of exp needed in able to do content. This is simply untrue and it's a problem the players have, and has nothing to do with the staff.

Even worse, the CoPower is boring as all hell. You just kill massive amounts of things, watch the little thing tick up, and gain uninteresting, base power bit by bit.

I hate to say it but grinding out the five Codex of Power tomes is equally boring as grinding the 350 - 500 aa's (depending on class) before Codex of Power and the 80+ tomes after them. Getting exp never changes.

This is the reason that Citadel of the Claw was such an amazing zone. The zone broke so many group exp "rules" that seemed to be set into stone. Citadel of the Claw was actually difficult. Players had to pay attention and there was a great deal of mobs that had different abilities.

I also LOVED the fact that the place holders of named mobs had similar abilities to the names themselves. This was a way to learn the named fights before even seeing them.

What I am trying to say is. If you wish to make getting exp less "boring" simply by changing the name of the books you put exp into; it isn't going to work. You have to make fun content to kill.

Of course, this power increase is so big that it needs to be done prior to some AAs, and nearly all other tomes.

I very much disagree with this statement. The power a character gets from AA's is far greater then they get from the Codex of Power (the terms of exp vs power ratio). I also can not think of one class that would wish to get Codex of Power finished before their AA's, other then very poor quality AA's such as stats. I would even go as far as saying Innate Metabolism 3/3 is worth getting before starting your first Codex of Power for every single class.

Proposal 1:

CoPower goes away. Instead, we have three tomes: (The names do not matter yet.)

Codex of Battle: 20% Melee, Pet Melee and Ranged Damage. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Healing: 20% Healing increase. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Evocation: 20% to all damage spells and songs. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

When the change goes live, we delete all CoPower and reimburse everyone who has done a CoPower their experience that has gone into it (most likely via a bunch of right click tokens). It is then up to the player to use their previously earned experience on all three new tomes, or to pick one or two new tomes and have some experience left over.

Most classes will only need one or two of these tomes. Even better, new players will be able to tackle the tome of most potency to their class first, instead of having to slog through all 5 old tomes to get their needed 20%. A guild looking for a druid will care first and foremost about the healing tome, and although the druid may want the evocation tome in the future, it is not an automatic prerequisite for high end raiding.

This Proposal seems like just a waste of time. All this does it help some classes a great deal when at the same time "penalizing" other classes just because they are not such a cut and dry class.

Clearly a Rogue would love this Idea. They would simply finish their "Codex of Battle" and now do 95% (a total random guess) of the DPS a full 5/5 Codex of Power rogue would do with only having to grind out 1/3 of the exp they previously had to do.

Now let's look at classes like Bards, Rangers, Paladins... These classes would have to still do all three of them simply because of the class they picked when they started the game.

Proposal 2:

Get rid of CoPower altogether, reimburse all experience, and welfare the 20% to something else.

This is currently what I am leaning toward. Right now our best idea is put the 20% increase into specializations, and to make it so those specialization bonuses only kick in at 65. For instance, lets say all specializations are capped at 200 until level 65. We then make every 3 or 4 AAs or X tome exp give 1 specialization point. Each specialization point between 200 and 250 gives ~.4 bonus to all the old CoPower attribute corresponding to the specialization.

This means that you still gain the 20% slowly, but you do it in a way concurrent with normal AAing or Tomeing.

Alternatively, another idea to welfare the 20% is to put it into actually killing things. Utilizing the new "hard event" flag we used to give boss mobs experience bonuses, we have each new boss mob killed increase your overall power by some increment up to 20%. This way, players will get their old CoPower increase slowly as they kill more and more difficult mobs. Perhaps something around .1% per mini, .2% per boss and .5% per zone boss. With this, the power increase is still there, but it is no longer something new players will have to do to get into a new guild. Instead, it is something the new player gets as he experiences more and more raid content.

This just sound like you giving Codex of Power to players for free just because they are playing the game.

I am sure you know this but currently you only get specialization points when completing a level or an AA. I guess making it so you get 1 specialization point per x exp even when you're filling up tomes wouldn't be a hard fix.

The only problem I have with this idea is a problem I currently have with the Tomes after Codex of Power already. There is simply not enough tomes for "Melee DPS" classes to be that excited about.

When looking at a list of all the General tomes in the game it isn't hard to see that they are much more helpful to caster classes then they are melee.

I will save you the time and not make a list of what ones are better for casters over melee because I think it is simply very clear. I am only guessing that this happen because melee dps can get weapon as they raid and casters can not. I feel a better way to have fixed this problem would have been putting more Elemental Damage on caster weapons.

I would like to see tomes that are geared toward melee one day. Something like a Tome of 1H Slash Mastery that will increase the damage with a 1H Slash weapons for 2% each rank.

Currently if you make Codex of Power free as you exp other tomes you will eventually see Melee running out of the desire of exp their character faster then casters. Melee would end up doing caster tomes that do nothing for their class just to finish up their "Hidden Codex of Power". I guess you already do see this problem however Codex of Power does a nice job of keeping it hidden a bit.

My post is already getting too long. Sorry that I am terrible and English just wanted to put in how I see the game.
 
I, as a player, like the idea of Codex of Power. I am still unsure of why the staff feels they are a "failed experiment". If the staff is surprised by the fact that people have drive to reach objectives that make their character more powerful then I guess it should just been seen as a learning experience. This should be seen as a positive because people like to play your game, in large periods of time. There will always be the hard core group of people in ever MMO that will eat up content like it is nothing. Developers will sit back and be amazed that people already killed / finished said content as the group of hard core players buy more socks.

I do not think the staff is surprised by anything prompting this change. If the majority of people had the drive to reach those objectives, you are right, it would be a positive. Unfortunately, that is not the case. This change is not for those who were able to do their CoPower with a smile on their face, loving the % rewards as they slowly trickled in. It is for new players who want to be able to get into what many consider the most entertaining part of the game quicker, 6mans and raiding. At the same time, it is to give those with lots of time options to improve their character in ways that are peripheral, trophy or niche.

Like you said, there are always the hardcore who will do any amount of exp. That is a small portion of the population as a whole. But over time, things that were originally for just the "hard core" get done by long time casual players. This is inevitable to some extent, but CoPower did it in a big, boring, bad way. SoD existed for many years without the extra big lump of copower exp to "accomplish", and was better off for it. If we can find a way to give rewards for experience past a certain point with diminishing returns or peripheral upgrades, a balance can be struck for both hard core and moderate players.


Balancing the game around this Hardcore group and casual players might just be impossible. So don't feel bad that there is a false barrier of exp needed in able to do content. This is simply untrue and it's a problem the players have, and has nothing to do with the staff.

Regardless of whether or not you think it is a "problem with the players", peoples perceptions effect their behavior. That behavior effects the game. In this instance, it effects it detrimentally. We do not feel "bad", we feel that eliminating the CoPower, or transforming it elsewise, will let us lower barriers of entry to new players while finding good ways to reward those who have copious amounts of time.



I hate to say it but grinding out the five Codex of Power tomes is equally boring as grinding the 350 - 500 aa's (depending on class) before Codex of Power and the 80+ tomes after them. Getting exp never changes.

You are conflating having fun exping with having fun and interesting rewards from exp. If you are so much of a min/maxer that a small % power increase makes you walk away from a nights playing satisfied, I am happy for you, but too much of that (as we have now) prevents us from putting in interesting rewards including not only direct raw power, but periphery and fun things as well.


What I am trying to say is. If you wish to make getting exp less "boring" simply by changing the name of the books you put exp into; it isn't going to work. You have to make fun content to kill.

Again, conflating having fun while exping with having fun and interesting rewards from exp. Despite how badly you want us to go out and revamp all the old zones in the game with tech that is very recent and allows for a citadel type zone, that is a very long and arduous process - especially with our push for 3.0. Further, it really has nothing to do with the 3 hour change that replacing CoPower would be.

I very much disagree with this statement. The power a character gets from AA's is far greater then they get from the Codex of Power (the terms of exp vs power ratio). I also can not think of one class that would wish to get Codex of Power finished before their AA's, other then very poor quality AA's such as stats. I would even go as far as saying Innate Metabolism 3/3 is worth getting before starting your first Codex of Power for every single class.

It sounds like you disagree with a very small portion of that statement. You can argue all you want whether or not some AAs will be done before CoPower. You even admitted that many do CoPower before stat AAs. Unfortunately, we have little control over AAs, AA requirements and the power that AAs give a player. Further, they are well incorporated into the game, and are done in an entertaining way, at least relatively.

You did not respond at all about CoPower being done before most other tomes.


This Proposal seems like just a waste of time. All this does it help some classes a great deal when at the same time "penalizing" other classes just because they are not such a cut and dry class.

Clearly a Rogue would love this Idea. They would simply finish their "Codex of Battle" and now do 95% (a total random guess) of the DPS a full 5/5 Codex of Power rogue would do with only having to grind out 1/3 of the exp they previously had to do.

Now let's look at classes like Bards, Rangers, Paladins... These classes would have to still do all three of them simply because of the class they picked when they started the game.

Yes, it has been well stated that some classes would have to do more tomes than other classes. The point is that with this you gain your most important "old CoP" powers earlier on, and can work on the rest at leisure. It sounds like from above that is the sort of thing you want - hardcore exp opportunities. This splitting option gives us that while still lowering newbie barrier of entry.

A rogue would love the idea. They would be able to get their DPS to old CoPower relatively quickly, disregarding upcoming trap changes at least. Also interesting is that the classes that would benefit the quickest, are the least played classes on the server - perhaps besides warrior. Being able to use magic is a big deal, and spreading out power increase via tomes to those classes who have lots of different utility is not necessarily a bad thing. Of course, anyone who has already done all the tomes has the option of simply rebuying all three new ones if this option goes in.

Did you know there are differences in experience required for all the classes to hit different percentages of their power, even disregarding tomes? Those classes with the highest also are often the more versatile.



This just sound like you giving Codex of Power to players for free just because they are playing the game.

Yes. That is what we are proposing. Taking away the 25% completely was determined to be too harsh.

I am sure you know this but currently you only get specialization points when completing a level or an AA. I guess making it so you get 1 specialization point per x exp even when you're filling up tomes wouldn't be a hard fix.

Yeah that is the current idea, we would have to rescale specializations and change when points are given after 65. To be honest, I think we are learning more towards the raid exp idea if we do option 2.


The only problem I have with this idea is a problem I currently have with the Tomes after Codex of Power already. There is simply not enough tomes for "Melee DPS" classes to be that excited about.

When looking at a list of all the General tomes in the game it isn't hard to see that they are much more helpful to caster classes then they are melee.

I will save you the time and not make a list of what ones are better for casters over melee because I think it is simply very clear. I am only guessing that this happen because melee dps can get weapon as they raid and casters can not. I feel a better way to have fixed this problem would have been putting more Elemental Damage on caster weapons.

I would like to see tomes that are geared toward melee one day. Something like a Tome of 1H Slash Mastery that will increase the damage with a 1H Slash weapons for 2% each rank.

I am not really sure how this pertains to the conversation. But I will say - you are posting against the thing that we are hoping gives us more room to make interesting tomes to be "excited" about. And to implement some of the new AAs available to us in 3.0.

Currently if you make Codex of Power free as you exp other tomes you will eventually see Melee running out of the desire of exp their character faster then casters. Melee would end up doing caster tomes that do nothing for their class just to finish up their "Hidden Codex of Power". I guess you already do see this problem however Codex of Power does a nice job of keeping it hidden a bit.

Yeah I think this problem is the same with CoPower in place, although I could see it hiding it somewhat. If we did make it specialization base, it would fill up quick relative to the tomes any class would want to have done.[/QUOTE]
 
What am I missing here?

As I (mis)understand what is being suggested - the solution to people not being able to raid because they do not have CoP's is to make CoP's only available by raiding.

Really??????

From a personal point of view that is a disastrous "solution".
As I can get neither obtain loot nor tomes for my main, I am xp'ing an alt.
But said alt has no access to raids, so if you pull the rug out from under his xp'ing that is Game Over - Thank You - and Goodnight
 
What am I missing here?

As I (mis)understand what is being suggested - the solution to people not being able to raid because they do not have CoP's is to make CoP's only available by raiding.

Really??????

So you are a new 65. You have tons of AAs ahead of you, lots of non CoPower tomes, and the CoPower themselves. Of course there is no concrete number when you become "legitimate" to raid, as it is not a binary question. But the current spectrum is from fresh 65 to all experience bonuses attained (ignoring charms for now). On that spectrum, the current requirement is normally relatively high - often all AAs and starting on CoPower or more.

The "raid gained" proposal to CoPower would change the spectrum two ways. First, it decreases the range of the spectrum entirely, as it reduces experience spendable in total at least at first. Shrinking the spectrum means less grind time needed post 65 to experience content.

The second change, and more important one, is that it lets us shift where on that spectrum content experience can happen. Taking out the CoPower, but adding in other ways for experience to be spent that are not large pure % power increases means those people who want to exp for years have things to do, while not making all those things powerful enough to be seen as approaching required.

That given, we need a way to shift the 20% back into the game, as that is how things have been balanced. (In all honesty we don't, we can rebalanced raw % easily, but figured this would be more just and palatable). Putting the bonus slowly over 6-man, 12-man and 18-man encounters lets people earn their power bonus by going out and killing content in a way that is more skill based than grind based. It gives incentives for people to not jump tiers, and to experience adepts, 6 man and raid events as they play for palpable rewards even if the gear is not a direct upgrade.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your misunderstanding. Why would transferring the CoPower increase to the raid exp bonus system act as a barrier to raid relative to how they are now?
 
i think his issue is that he isnt raiding now, isnt in an active guild (or isnt an active raider in a guild) so he is spending time xping a new character when he can. the shift of filling codexes into the raid scene would take away that avenue of character progression for any non-raiding person.

bridger, while that is true, even if codex filling is switched to raiding only a person can still progress and xp a new character without raiding through the ikisith tomes. are you concerned with just getting codexes as a non-raider or being able to xp in general?
 
The problem isn't that it is a barrier the problem is it is a perceived barrier. While progressing through yclist and prison as a guild we were working on eternal charms. Look at prophecy forum accounting and dragonkin and you will see tht they are not needed to raid. Even in SB we are taking people that do not have them complete if they are good button pushers with high play times.
 
From a personal point of view that is a disastrous "solution".
As I can get neither obtain loot nor tomes for my main, I am xp'ing an alt.
But said alt has no access to raids, so if you pull the rug out from under his xp'ing that is Game Over - Thank You - and Goodnight

I think the issue is that doing the Codex of Power as a non-raider is currently an option, if the CoPs were moved to "raid mobs only", it removes that option entirely for a non-raider.

To Woldaff's "It gives incentives for people to not jump tiers", I am unsure how it will affect the issue of catching someone up to speed because they join a guild 5-10 tiers ahead of them. Will it cause issues with backgearing (more so than there can be already?) just to get the % raw power bonus? Just thinking out loud. I don't have much of an opinion either way on the jumping tiers thing to replenish ranks because it's more of a player's personal preference. Assuming this is an issue in the first place.
 
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i think his issue is that he isnt raiding now, isnt in an active guild (or isnt an active raider in a guild) so he is spending time xping a new character when he can. the shift of filling codexes into the raid scene would take away that avenue of character progression for any non-raiding person.

bridger, while that is true, even if codex filling is switched to raiding only a person can still progress and xp a new character without raiding through the ikisith tomes. are you concerned with just getting codexes as a non-raider or being able to xp in general?

I think that he is expressing the same sort of issue I would have with the prepossessed raid based system. Some people have play times that are at odds with raiding, but conducive to xp progression. My personal example is that currently I cannot commit to x date and y time for raiding with any consistency. (I can't even make my Monday night softball games regularly...) I may be gone for a week or two at a time, and then I may get 3 or 4 straight 10 hour days of SoD.

I doubt any progression guilds would want me which means my characters will most likely never get the 'CoP' like bonus from raiding. (Shout out to the goons for having me /FistPump)

Bridger, did I hit the nail on the head?


Also, if CoP progression is moved to being 6/12/18 man kill based, will we see people having issues getting their bonus due to content always being down?
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding your misunderstanding. Why would transferring the CoPower increase to the raid exp bonus system act as a barrier to raid relative to how they are now?

The alt in question has currently 3 CoP done but is a member of a T11 raiding guild.
He is not going to get a spot for 18/12 man content or even 6 man NAME content because
(a) Mains are taken over Alts
(b) There are loads of better equipped toons to take any spot
(c) The character does not cut it at T11.

Under the current system this does not worry me.
I can carry on xp'ing - mostly by adventure banding or duoing with my main - and work my way through the CoP's and onto purchasable Ikisith tomes.

If this route is to be denied to me, I can see no future in continuing to play.
Nothing I have read here is reassuring me otherwise.
 
If this route is to be denied to me, I can see no future in continuing to play.

You just expressly stated that you have Ikisith tomes aplenty to do on your alts. I honestly thought you were arguing that you had nothing but the CoPower left to do.

So basically - even though you will still have a place to put your exp, you are saying you will quit if the experience does not go into the "route" which goes AAs to CoP to Ikisith Tomes? Okay. I mean you can make a legitimate argument about ikisith tomes needing to be easier to obtain or something, but just saying "I quit if CoP is not expable on my alts" is not going to win you a lot of sympathy.

I think that he is expressing the same sort of issue I would have with the prepossessed raid based system. Some people have play times that are at odds with raiding, but conducive to xp progression. My personal example is that currently I cannot commit to x date and y time for raiding with any consistency. (I can't even make my Monday night softball games regularly...) I may be gone for a week or two at a time, and then I may get 3 or 4 straight 10 hour days of SoD.

Also, if CoP progression is moved to being 6/12/18 man kill based, will we see people having issues getting their bonus due to content always being down?

Yes, the 20% would not be obtainable to people who never do 6-man or raids. Those who wanted to just grind away EXP could do so on ikky tomes or whatever new thing comes down the pipe, but I have yet to hear anyone who does not raid yet has all their obtainable ikisith tomes done. If you want to play SoD and hang with friends, at some point someone is going to want to go to Cmal, or Nadox, or Emberflow, or Catacombs or on and on and on.

We are not saying to make the 20% be every mob in every tier up to 12. Giving people .1% for a mini, .3% for a boss and .5% for a zone boss would end up getting you the bonus pretty damned fast, and would be obtainable via pugs or 6 mans.

Also, I do not see there being a problem with mobs being down, given that this will be calculated retroactively. The vast vast majority of people with CoP done (and quite a bit of people without it done) will have enough raid kills in their past to get the full CoP power.

Alternatively, for a new player (who this whole thing is aimed at), starting out and going to PUG raids or 6 mans concurrently gains them gear, exp, and the raid bonus. It might be great to have a place to put infinite alternate character exp (although I would argue that the majority of players dont do the CoPower for the sake of doing more experience mobs), but it is not good for players who want to enter onto the scene on a main character.
 
Ikisith tomes would increase healing by 2% - CoP increase healing by 20%

Are you honestly suggesting that as a viable alternative?

Most of the rest of the tomes rely on using overcap stats that you are not going to have without raid gear.

What you are suggesting KILLS progression for non raiding toons stone dead.
 
What if the bonus also included completing certain quests or getting to certain points in quest lines? Also what if it included giving .1% for killing certain important named mobs in xp zones? There are plenty of ways to allow players to get a power boost without raiding. However I do not think you should be able to cap without doing a decent amount of raiding. Keep in mind that there are over 40 tier 1 raid mobs alone. Its not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. I totally agree that you should be able to progress through quests and killing important named xp mobs but maybe for only a 5-10% max bonus of the power.

I still think regular codex should be kept if that proposal goes through but they should only give 1% bonus per rank and keep them for hard core xp-ers. Maybe let anyone currently with them get the bonus as well as a sort of present for playing for so long.
 
You just expressly stated that you have Ikisith tomes aplenty to do on your alts. I honestly thought you were arguing that you had nothing but the CoPower left to do.

So basically - even though you will still have a place to put your exp, you are saying you will quit if the experience does not go into the "route" which goes AAs to CoP to Ikisith Tomes? Okay. I mean you can make a legitimate argument about ikisith tomes needing to be easier to obtain or something, but just saying "I quit if CoP is not expable on my alts" is not going to win you a lot of sympathy.



Yes, the 20% would not be obtainable to people who never do 6-man or raids. Those who wanted to just grind away EXP could do so on ikky tomes or whatever new thing comes down the pipe, but I have yet to hear anyone who does not raid yet has all their obtainable ikisith tomes done. If you want to play SoD and hang with friends, at some point someone is going to want to go to Cmal, or Nadox, or Emberflow, or Catacombs or on and on and on.

We are not saying to make the 20% be every mob in every tier up to 12. Giving people .1% for a mini, .3% for a boss and .5% for a zone boss would end up getting you the bonus pretty damned fast, and would be obtainable via pugs or 6 mans.

Also, I do not see there being a problem with mobs being down, given that this will be calculated retroactively. The vast vast majority of people with CoP done (and quite a bit of people without it done) will have enough raid kills in their past to get the full CoP power.

Alternatively, for a new player (who this whole thing is aimed at), starting out and going to PUG raids or 6 mans concurrently gains them gear, exp, and the raid bonus. It might be great to have a place to put infinite alternate character exp (although I would argue that the majority of players dont do the CoPower for the sake of doing more experience mobs), but it is not good for players who want to enter onto the scene on a main character.

bloog said:
What if the bonus also included completing certain quests or getting to certain points in quest lines? Also what if it included giving .1% for killing certain important named mobs in xp zones? There are plenty of ways to allow players to get a power boost without raiding. However I do not think you should be able to cap without doing a decent amount of raiding. Keep in mind that there are over 40 tier 1 raid mobs alone. Its not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. I totally agree that you should be able to progress through quests and killing important named xp mobs but maybe for only a 5-10% max bonus of the power.

This is starting to sounding kind of like a neat idea.
 
The whole tomes idea in general feels like a failed experiment, not just CoP which was here long before Ikisith expansion launched. There are just too many tomes and even if CoP was removed or replaced what do you do about the other 20+ tomes that raid guilds will want you to do in its place ?

If its failing the most direct course is to get rid of it all together and reimburse players that have invested heavily into tomes completions with something equally tedious and is part of the endgame they covet like charms from plat grinding.

Idea: Give each player with completed tome(s) a plat value token per tome that can be turned in to the charm vendor. For those that have a endgame charm already done and need reimbursement the token could be applied to some endgame exp-able items, like instead of plat value it xp's the item up a set amount (Dev some for t10+ content).

You get rid of the tome problem and keep players happy that they dont have to now go out and grind a million plat to fit in with your endgame content. The same system could be applied to converting completed tomes to a fame points clickable token as a third option.

Taking large scale things away from players has proven to be a tricky subject (ie. old Thaz) and has the potential to decrease player base population but if tomes impede or limit how the game can be dev'd in the future (3.0 client or even our current client) I am all for a system such as this to get rid of tomes all together as sort of reset button for SoD, its players and the staff.

I agree with Paxit on this one. Tomes in general were a bandaid to fix a problem and then were expanded on to cause more problems. Some one suggested using EXP to spawn raid targets or unlock raids zones.

No one wants to hear "You have to be this tall to go on this ride"
Take 100% of the power gained from ALL Codex and spread it out through game play. Be it some from raid bosses crafting exp 6man stuff what ever. Hold mini events that will increase skills.
 
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I agree with Paxit on this one. Tomes in general were a bandaid to fix a problem and then were expanded on to cause more problems.

How are Tomes any different than AAs as AAs are today? We have crit strike AAs and crit strike tomes. We have "Tomes" that could easily have been "AAs" that are not consumables if the current client supported it (since this client is limited in the # of AAs to only what is hardcoded for this client). Evo, healing, crit, swift, stat tomes are all similar to AAs (Plus the many other tomes).

From that standpoint, removing all tomes would be making the case to remove all AAs that are not "rechargeable/spendable". Am I missing something?
 
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