Fortune Favors the Diverse - Bonus Raid Loot

Discussion in 'Tome of Knowledge' started by Slaariel, Aug 19, 2014.

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  1. Slaariel

    Slaariel *The Only Real Life Girl Dev* Staff Member

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    Fortune Favors the Diverse is the classy name for the fact that raid encounters designed for 18 players that by default drop two random items have a chance of dropping a third. This chance does not exist before 11 unique classes are alive and directly involved in the kill (i.e. have generated aggro) and it goes up from there to the maximum of 15 different classes.

    Here are the important points in Powerpoint Form:
    • Raid Content, by design, drops 2 loots in addition to gems, spells, and other merchant-bait.
      • This means that if a Raid Mob is designed to be tackled by 18 people and you kill it and two things drop, that is the desired, designed, intended, ideal outcome.
      • 6 and 12 man content follows its own, less-regimented, zone-specific, dev-specific, free-form loot rules. This mechanic as described does not affect 6 or 12 man content at all in any way.
    • Bonus loot chance from raid content happens in the following conditions:
      • Mob is designed for 18-players
      • Mob has NO GUARANTEED LOOT
      • Mob has NO GUARANTEED LOOT CLASS (i.e. Mob Always Drops A Shield)
      • Special rare circumstances apply
    • How it works:
      • At time of death, the mob's hate list is checked.
      • That means to be counted you must have actively participated (generated aggro).
      • Bonus starts at 11 and increases up to the maximum chance at 15 unique classes.
    • What this means for you:
      • Don't fill raids with 3 wizards, 3 rangers, 3 clerics if you care about absolute loot maximization.
      • Often, even on enabled mobs with a full raid of 15 classes, you will not get the bonus loot.
      • It's just something nice that happens sometimes.
      • It's not guaranteed, okay.
      • If you say to yourself, pre-fight "I hope the [item class] this mob drops is usable." then you are probably not facing a mob with a bonus loot chance.
      • Even if you don't say that, sometimes a mob just won't have bonus loot.
      • It's not guaranteed.
      • It's just something nice that happens sometimes.

    FURTHERMORE, in some level 65 exp zones, notably MielechC and Red Sun Mines but perhaps more, there is a tiny, tiny, minuscule bonus chance for a named spawn if the placeholder was killed with a group as opposed to solod or duod. In terms of man-hours, it is my honest opinion that if you can kill it yourself or with a box that is way more efficient than bringing down extra people. But if you need a group to do the content anyway, this is a mechanic that helps the group not sit in one spot all day. Wasting 1 person's time is the name of the game, but wasting 3-6 people's time was deemed less desirable in this one instance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
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  2. donfolstar3

    donfolstar3 Dalayan Master

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    Thank you for making this post. Evidence that FFtD exists is nice to have around. So, when you say "sometimes" is that a "sometimes coins land heads up" sometimes or a "sometimes it is monday" sometimes or a "sometimes hookers pay you" sometimes? SoD has a tendency to give stunningly low % to these kind of things and vague notion of how sometimes this sometimes is would probably influence whether this is a thing substantial enough to do what it is probably intended to do (ummm, favor diversity?) or just a thing people can ignore because one extra drop every 11th raid night isn't worth the effort.
     
  3. Nwaij

    Nwaij Game Master Staff Member

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    It is very substantial with 15 classes. Far less substantiel with 11 classes. Somewhere inbetween with classes somewhere inbetween 11 and 15.
     
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  4. dracosf22

    dracosf22 Dalayan Elder

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    this still won't satisfy a number of players. Most of us are nerds and like numbers. (and yes I read we apparently won't get them.) Personally I don't understand what it would hurt to have them, unless silly folks would rant "hey, we are suppossed to see a 3rd loot 40% of the time and its been weeks!" (cause RNG is a bitch sometimes)
     
  5. Nwaij

    Nwaij Game Master Staff Member

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    Pretty much fear for this to happen and people petitioning about it is the reason that no exact numbers are being revealed.
     
  6. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    We are our own worst enemy sometimes
     
  7. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    According to the wiki there is a similar mechanic for exp groups-
    • Group XP bonuses... 2 players in a group get the same XP as having 3 to 6 players. Besides consideration of splitting loot, there's really no reason to not add a 3rd player or more to a group. As a matter of fact, more players in a group result in higher chance of named spawning.
    Is that last part accurate? How does this system work? Does it apply to every named or are there zone/level/whatever restrictions?
     
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  8. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    sunmines.
     
  9. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    This means if players die during a fight the raid looses their bonus loot chance? Would there be any consideration of changing this? I know its not the biggest deal, but I could imagine a raid losing a few players, and intentionally wiping to regain full bonus loot chance, since I've definitely seen that it can be substantial with good diversity. It also might favor boxing high tiered toons over newer low hp guild members because (xx cant survive the AE here and we will lose our bonus, just box well geared yy for this".
     
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  10. Slaariel

    Slaariel *The Only Real Life Girl Dev* Staff Member

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    The named spawn thing is true but not really in use in a lot of zones. I think it may even have been invented just for MielC and Red Sun Mines because those are the places I most associate it with in my mind. Editing to clarify: This is a bonus chance to spawn, not a penalty for boxers. Also I will add this to my top post.
     
  11. Slaariel

    Slaariel *The Only Real Life Girl Dev* Staff Member

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    Also wiping a raid to keep more people alive for an increased chance at bonus loot does not sound like my idea of a good time and I highly HIGHLY SUGGEST that you treat this entire mechanic as 'just something nice that happens sometimes'.

    Can I suggest it more highly? Imagine that I can and then that I did.
     
  12. Cinny

    Cinny Dalayan Elder

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    I can agree that this seems to promote boxing retired toons over gearing new ones.
     
  13. donfolstar3

    donfolstar3 Dalayan Master

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    Now when you say "substantial" do you mean that like "the size of the universe is substantial" substantial or "herniated discs cause substantial pain" substantial or "attention Walmart employees you will be receiving a substantial pay increase" substantial? If you can/will not give solid numbers can you inform the topic via a limerick, haiku, or vague anecdote centered around fishing? If a wood chuck could chuck favored diversity how much favored diversity could a wood chuck chuck?

    Does it really work based on who is alive at the end of the fight? That kind of works completely and 100% against what I suspect might possibly be the designers intent (errr, favoring diversity?).
     
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  14. Slaariel

    Slaariel *The Only Real Life Girl Dev* Staff Member

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    If you want to do encounter with only over-tiered boxed toons to maximize a non-guaranteed chance of a bonus loot for your boxed, over-tiered toons then please do it. If you want to wipe a raid because 4 people died and you're under 15 unique classes, please do it. That's all you get.
     
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