God help us, its a BST thread

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Taryth, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. susurrus

    susurrus Dalayan Elder

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    The armor type argument is rather arbitrary, I don't see any reason why BST should take significantly more damage than other melee given their role compared to rogues and rangers.

    Are you aware that druids, shaman, and cleric are all priest classes with different armor types and the same defense cap?

    Do you propose we lower ranger and rogue defense from 250 because they have chain instead of plate?

    The real issue is that skills below 250 have way too much impact, 5 points is massive, let alone 20 points. You can either attempt to recode the system so the sub 250 points aren't so dramatically powerful or you could simply level the playing field.

    The stance argument is also pretty flawed, all of the other melee have defensive stances, BST /s 7 is not sustainable due to large stamina costs on one end and poor mitigation on the other.

    Nimble is a much better oh shit button at any rate, BST just dies.

    This really needs to be evaluted.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  2. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    It has it's uses and fits the lore. Especially now that pet whirlwind is a thing.
     
  3. Hyoren

    Hyoren Dalayan Adventurer

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    Hi, was wondering if maybe there is a bug somewhere. Atm my Glaciation does 732 dmg and pet mimics 300dmg, but my Venom of the Wild does 831 and mimics for 227 dmg. Was wondering if maybe the pet was mimic-ing the old version of the spell? Thanks for looking into it.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  4. Dev-Solo

    Dev-Solo Staff Emeritus

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    I would guess you are seeing a partial resist? Because pets done have all the charisma, specialization, etc that players do they suffer much more on resistant mobs than players do.
     
  5. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    No this is (sort of) as intended. Firstly, to remove your confusion... Our warders don't benefit from shared power anymore, I believe this was only intended to be the case while in /s 8 but it applies to all stances now. Which means no specialization sharing, focus effects, etc. Because of the way pets spell resistance works, spells without any inherent resist adjust do not hit for base spell damage, they hit for less. This is why venom hits for less than base but glaciation does hit for base, it has a -100 resist adjust. The same applies to procs, this is sort of problematic because now in order to play a Beastlord the most efficiently, you can no longer just look at weapon proc and proc rate, but also resist adjust. Which creates an even bigger problem because a lot of weapon procs out there don't have resist adjusts on them at all, or if they do, they are too small to affect this mechanic.

    For instance: Staff of Shifting Shadows far outparses any other weapon I have access to in mimic stance because of the high base damage and big resist adjust. This promotes a problem which cannot be fixed in its root unless the way Shared Power works for Beastlords is changed.
    That should in theory change the way the shared power is negated. As I understand it, currently there is code in place fighting the effects of shared power. This should fix the base damage/resist adjust problem too?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  6. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    Not to muck up my previous comment but this seems like a good narrative to slip in talk about Beastlord spells too. If a mob is cold resistant... we are dead in the water except for venom, which is still sort of dead in the water because without bitter cold recourse, which you wont get because cold... venom does 50% less damage than it normally would. I was thinking maybe the addition of a Poison nuke line with short cool down might be warranted? Fits current spell set and would fill this niche quite nicely. I understand that all classes cant be good at all things, balance and stuff. But all spell casting classes have at least a couple different elements they can switch to in situations like that.
     
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  7. Hyoren

    Hyoren Dalayan Adventurer

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    Ah ok, I forgot to look at that the - resist adjust. Thanks alot that helps big time for my understanding hehe.
    Also I think it would be a good idea as well to have a nuke that maybe mirrors Bitter Cold that is either Disease or Poison based and so that theres no taking advantage of having double nuking power (having them share the same CD, if thats at all possible, should solve any double nuke abuse/power up)
     
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  8. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    That's not a bad idea actually Hyo! Would be fairly simple to set the cooldowns to share I think. A 900 base poison nuke with -50 adjust would be swell, lower versions spread through the levels too. 65, 55, 44, 30? All could share the same cooldown.
     
  9. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    What mobs that matter are cold resistant lol. Pofrost?
     
  10. demither

    demither Dalayan Adventurer

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    only actual mob i can think of is the mindful dude from spires
     
  11. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    Buff moon comet 2015
     
  12. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    Well right now for example, Kedge is blessed, can't land anything on the mobs. But there are other places.
     
  13. taosanterior

    taosanterior Dalayan Elder

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    Doesn't Bitter Cold operate through a recourse? If so a new spell could have a different nuke but throw out the same recourse which would prevent stacking issues and probably be simpler than sharing cooldowns and also make more sense. If I am dumb and forgot how beastlords work then please ignore me
     
  14. Shouki

    Shouki Dalayan Adventurer

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    What kind of spiders in that global list? I always imagined DE with a black widow spider pet.
     
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  15. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    I'm pretty sure the reason a cool down would be necessary is because other wise one could just hit bitter cold, then the new nuke right after. Thus giving the beast more dps instead of just the ability to fight against cold resistant mobs.

    Edit: as a side note/opinion... Bitter cold recourse is still a gigantic pain in the butt. I always have to click off some or all of the following spells (bliss, cotp, DS, gdb) to make space for recourse and BP proc and ashpyre, soul expansion and countless other stuff, then I have to click off something else when I want to use a burn clicky or over haste AA.

    It would be really nice that after some time goes by and things "settle" that bitter cold went away to be just a higher base nuke and that damage loss from the recourse roll into the dots base like many have suggested here in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
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  16. Hyoren

    Hyoren Dalayan Adventurer

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    I think it is because they want us to use the two in synergy to get that dmg. I think that is whats good about it and I like that fact, but the recourse really is a pain because we as hybrids hurt for buff slot.
    I was thinking maybe another way to go about it was to maybe have the Bitter Cold apply a debuff instead. I don't know game coding tho so I have no idea if its even possible, but coding the debuff to only increase bst dots and that another bst nuking would just refresh the debuff timer instead of stacking.
    And if you wanted to give us some extra utility love, maybe add that the debuff would increase other class dots by 2-8%.
     
  17. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    Even if this is the intent.. It's only good to do so in fights with mobs that have a lot of HP... If I go to a group in BQ and I am even the one to pull the mob, I might just barely be able to finish casting my 3 spell rotation and the mob will be <20% when the last one lands... which means i get 1-2 ticks of either dot... So all that is wasted, which is really terrible. Thus I end up just using bitter cold on it's cool down. In the case of harder content or raid bosses though, ya i would agree with you.
     
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  18. Nwaij

    Nwaij Developer Staff Member

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    Welcome to a necros life!
     
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  19. Swiftur

    Swiftur Dalayan Elder

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    I was going to say something snarky but since this is actually a fair comparison, you got me there. I realize not all classes can be good at all things, they shouldn't be. I guess the only thing I can think of to argue that is Beastlords don't get dread lich or stance tomes to get all that wasted mana back... I kind of thought the whole reason the change to necros splurt curse AA to dread lich was to address sort of the same problem... As a Beastlord I would rather see it adressed on the front end rather than the back. I'm not asking for more DPS, I feel like the class is well balanced now in that respect in most all places but here.
     
  20. Nwaij

    Nwaij Developer Staff Member

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    The change Festering curse -> Dread lich was to adress the issue of a huge part of NEC dps coming from festering curse, wich wasn't available for consecutive boss attempts. In the process of that change, NEC dots were increased in damage across the board.
    As for the wasted mana on BSTs: there is paragon. I'd think that that helps atleast somewhat?
     

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