Have a suggestion for a new BD thread?

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Wiz, May 28, 2006.

  1. Wiz

    Wiz NOT DONATING *EVER*

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,116
    READ THIS POST BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THIS TOPIC, OR YOU WILL END UP WITH A SUSPENDED ACCOUNT.

    I just cleared out all the old/finished BD threads, so this thread is for taking suggestions on BD topics that should be created to replace them - for example "Wizard vs Magician balance" or "Items that should have/lose their NO DROP tag". HOWEVER, I don't want this post cluttered with a whole lot of dumb, so if you are going to make a suggestion it has to follow the following rules:

    Specific
    Specific topics only. You can not suggest a thread be made on "weapon balance" or "caster balance", because it's way too broad. Narrow it down to something more specific, like "1hs vs 1hb weapons in the high end game" or "caster mana regen on raids".

    But not TOO specific
    "Discuss if bards should be added as classes that can use Stormhat Shortsword" is not an appropriate BD topic because there's so little to discuss.

    Why?
    Include a short paragraph on why you think this topic is important enough to be discussed here. It doesn't have to be a reason I agree with, but it has to be a real reason, not just "cuz i play a wizard and i thinks they suck".

    Wasn't already suggested
    Read this entire thread to make sure noone already suggested what you are going to.

    First post
    Optionally, feel free to include (within quote tags) what you think the opening post of the thread should be.
     
  2. Maimai

    Maimai Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    465
    I'd like to suggest Crowd control at the end-game.

    My reasoning is I had read in an old old thread which I can't find anymore where there was a discussion on how mez couldn't be used at all on prison trash etc. and one of the staff said they were "still thinking of a solution". Also i've noticed Control has recently recieved a very stealth upgrade with no discussion which has had a great (positive) change on the way we've started to do things, being able to CC a level 65 mob with Control is very nice and also risky for the enchanter and puts a fixed timer on the raid which is challenging, fun and reduces everyone's reliance on monk splitting (which can get very very dull), but this is only on limited plane of air mobs and such. Then there's our Archaic spell, an upgrade of Complacency which is still resistable and in my eyes has 0 value at the raid game as our relic mez blows it out of the water with its unresistability, and also the fact that I can already cast Complacency around 70 times before oom (not including Gather Mana) and relic mez enough times for any CC encounter (eg. Xavara and Farguziar or whatever).

    So a point of discussion i'd like to bring to the table would be replacing Vapour Trance with a 'Control' upgrade that worked on level 67 mobs for 90 seconds or so, this would be the jist of the first post in the thread, a discussion on the Control changes and their impact, and the impact of replacing V-trance with a high end CC spell on that line (since we already get a relic mez and mezzing 65 mobs just isn't viable).
     
  3. Wiz

    Wiz NOT DONATING *EVER*

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,116
    If your why is long, try to break it up into several paragraphs, please.

    This is really TOO specific for a BD thread, but it'd make a good thread in S&R.
     
  4. Garluk

    Garluk Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    384
    Shortage of 1h weapons in the end game

    Hopefully this post will pass muster.

    There seems to be a real lack of DPS weapons of the 1h variety in the end game. When I dual wield (my preferred method), I use Shorblade of Chaos which is 16/20 with a decent DD proc with rather poor stats aside from HP and Stormrazor which is also 16/20 with a decent DD proc but zero HP. This combo parses 10-15% below what I can do with either Sidrav, Maul of Slaughter or Jagged Emerald Staff of Evisceration. The only options I currently have for upgrading are Splitblade of Darkness which is a 16 +1 fire / 21 with a decent DD (and marginal upgrade at best) and Funeral Guardian's Tonfa which is 20/23 with no DD but a short duration AE stun proc. Even Klazka, the Mirror Blade which is 46/30 will perform on par with my dual wield combo though it seems to be more of a defensive type weapon given that the proc reduces incoming magic dmg to the user.

    I've always been of the opinion that 1h weapons should perform better than 2h due to the higher inherent risks, ie. mob turns and you get eaten alive by ripostes especially during enrage. 1h weapons are also 2x as much trouble to keep current as a single 2h weapon. Given that rangers have 2 styles devoted exclusively to 1h weapons and none that are exclusive to 2h weapons, I would really like to have some weapon options that would not reduce my melee DPS when I opted to go 1h. I've heard rumors that there is a 1HB somewhere in IP but we've yet to see it drop :(


    edit: added reference to updating 2x 1h vs 1x 2h
     
  5. Allielyn

    Allielyn *Pony*

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Well, any post I put here must start out as a Suggestion & Request, because first you would have to accept the Request as something you're interested in doing. Then we can discuss balancing :/. Having said that . . . .

    I would really like to see the issue of instrument modification on songs looked at. While SoD has a great and interesting variety of instruments available for use, the fact that many many songs do not use any modification from said instruments really decreases their utility. In an ideal world, all songs would derive some sort of modification when performed with the most fitting instrument. Although I can't see that happening to every song, I would really like to see it happen to a lot more songs. To give a few examples:

    Wind songs fall under one of three categories: Mesmerize songs, Charm songs, and Utility songs. As far as I know, Mesmerize and Charm songs take no benefit from using a wind instrument. The utility songs seem to need no modification, or there doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to how it would be modified (examples are Waterbreathing, Invisibility, Shadowstep, Levitate, and Divine Aura)

    Singing modified songs as a general rule are not modified by "singing" instruments, some because they are utility songs (Locate Corpse, Identify, Cancel Magic), and some because they would be deemed "overpowered" (Mana regen, Haste). To give a specific example, of the 4 beneficial songs that Ginam and I typically sing on raids (Protection of the Four, Relic: Warcry, Warchant of the Tribes, and Relic: Melody of the Shield), all of them fall under the "singing" modified category, and only one of them actually takes modification from a "singing" instrument.

    Why should this go in Balancing Discussion? This is a issue is too broad for S&R, as of course every song in a Bard's book is classified as depending on some sort of instrument. While some songs might need to be looked at on a case by case basis (Divine Aura), and others can be looked at as an entire line of songs (Mana regen), I would rather have one thread in which to do so here, than one thread/song in the S&R forums. In addition, there are balancing issues here that would probably do better in a forum where a lot of suggestions can help find a fitting solution: for instance, finding a way to give Haste and overhaste classified songs modification without making them overpowered.

    Opening post:

    "To make instruments more useful and desirable, and to increase utility over the range of bard songs, we would like to look at the issue of instrument modification. While this thread is open to suggestion on any specific song or line of songs, be sure to consider balancing issues. Ideally, the song would be useful and not underpowered without modification, and useful and not overpowered with modification.

    As always, folllow the rules of Balancing Discussion before pushing the Reply button."
     
  6. Wiz

    Wiz NOT DONATING *EVER*

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,116
    I know, but there has to be something to discuss, not just a very specific idea that concerns one single-facetted topic.

    What I mean is that what you just posted is a good example of how to write a suggestion for a BD thread, but if you'd written it like "I think that the Bard song Chords of Dissonance should be wind instruments" would not be.
     
  7. AcyD

    AcyD Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9
    I would like to see some sort of Spell Casting in PvP balance thread.

    Don't think I can really narrow it down any more than that...

    I think pvp right now needs a bit of looking at. There are a few issuses I have as far as there being no skill involved in PvP on the shard... There are a few classes that can prettymuch win any battle so long as they cast one spell... (fear, relic dot ect.) I think a few of these things should be open for discussion. Being able to cast one spell and win any duel takes the fun out of it.

    I think the first thing that should be discussed (if a thread is made) would be fear in duels. If players were to run as originally intended it would be a lot harder for any melees to damage that person (im talking about shadowknights here). On SoD however, a shadowknight can fear you and not have to do anything except turn on autoattack and you are a sitting duck for them to hit over and over again. Personally, I would rather see fear removed in pvp then have it work this way. Not to mention a necromancer could fear you and easily unleash all his dots without having you run out of casting range like fear should make you... No skill involved.
     
  8. soba

    soba Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    232
    Re: Shortage of 1h weapons in the end game

    I would really like to see a thread on this as well,this is a big problem for Beastlords as well with their only dps style (flurry) not being usable with 2hb, low double attack (with AA's) and when using a 2hb their 9 AA Ambidexterity is useless.

    There is a severe lack of viable 1 handers from a dps perspective with a lot of the 1 handers being the same dps as fists or marginal upgrades.From PoAir to Outer Prison/Sepulcher I haven't even seen any 1 handers approach 16/20 for mnk/bsts which is peculiar because at least of those two classes the monk is decidedly a dps class.This problem is further aggravated for a bst by the lower skill caps for 1hb/piercing/2hb,a lack of mod items for those skills to compensate and one of the top 3 2hb's (motg staff) being a very poor choice since they cannot dump aggro when it procs leaving them with the choice of either the xavara staff or the maul of slaughter.

    This may seem like a post that should have been made in the S&R forum since it is heavily slanted toward the bst perspective but it just goes to show that the lack of 1handers in the end game not only affects one class but 3 and possibly more.
     
  9. Garluk

    Garluk Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    384
    Soba, good news once you make it into IP. The 1hb there is usable by war/mnk/rog/bst so you at least have an upgrade path. Rangers can't use it so we are limited to 16/20s (of which I now have 4 to choose from) and the even more difficult to get Tonfa from Cmal4.
     
  10. soba

    soba Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    232
    I was talking with Otus earlier yesterday about this problem and he has parsed Screamstrike and Wardfist and found them to be lower dps than Xavara's so no there is no 1 hander upgrade path for me or any other BST once they get Xavara,there is still a need for better 1handers.

    There is also a serious lack of 2hb mods in the game whereas I can go buy the incredibly cheap +15 H2H mod charm and finish the MQ for 20 total H2H skill, iirc this is only 5 from the max of 25 for skill mods.
     
  11. junius

    junius Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    warrior agro, as of now all major warriors get initial agro with cmal 3 gloves. They are a hotfix for warrior agro trouble that plagues the toon until they get this item. It is mainly due to the lack of dps from 1hders and the only agro proc coming from your offhand randomly. In relation to 2hders you have a much better shot to keep agro by dps, but the swings to hit ratio is less than 1hders.
     
  12. zodium

    zodium Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,099
    supportin dis :psyduck:
     
  13. Wiz

    Wiz NOT DONATING *EVER*

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,116
    Lufia, this is wrong thread to post a lot of numbers, please make a S&R thread.
     
  14. darkbandit

    darkbandit Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3
    i know this might be to vague but it is an idea that i think you should consider

    bring all spell compents back that is including pets.


    i know that i am still new to dalaya, and i have alot to learn. i am not sure if only the pet spells don't need componets, i.e. necros need bone chips... but i think that if you brought them back and lowered the recast time to say, maybe 1 min i think that it might add a bit of intrest to this game. i say this becasue one lately being a necro myslef, i have seen a big flux in necros, and well a big flux in bone chips in the /cm listview, /cm listsold menus, and auc channels. and well i think that it would well might help the the money system a Wii(nintendo plug , just cause i can't spell) bit, if pet and other spell componets can be found on mobs and be sold in auc, /cm listview, atc... the one down fall i see is that a player charging 100pp for them... my other suggestion is change pet/spell componets at certain lvls, I.E. bone chips @lvl 1 thru 24 and something like specture blood @ 39.... well you get what i am saying. thanks for you time
    darkbandit
    aka:
    Hecent 36 necro
     
  15. darkbandit

    darkbandit Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3
    addition for my reply/post

    may make a higher end type of AA i.e. arcane world componet
    if same class is in you party you will need less spell regeants,
    or maybe something like
    higher you go these things you need for spell something like that
     
  16. malcolmlo

    malcolmlo Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Despite being brand new I think I may have a good idea for a thread here if it doesnt already exist somewhere else on the forums or wiki.

    I havent played regular EQ for years really but am interested in messing around with SOD.

    Trying to pick a class to play based on new SOD abilities and things seems very difficult unless im missing something.

    What would be incredibly helpful, if not in the forums maybe in the wiki would be a "Class Change Matrix".

    A two column grid with 1 column for EQ and 1 column for SOD.

    Row headings could include Spells, AAs, Skills etc.

    I realize this could be a very difficult to manage and update, thus maybe a wiki would be best.

    I just want to pick a class that has some really fun sounding abilities compared to the old EQ. But I have no idea what the new SOD abilities and spells are.
     
  17. Minerios

    Minerios Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    699
    This is a forum about balance, not for general suggestions.

    If you want something in the wiki, start working on it yourself. It is much easier to get people to supplement work you've done than to get someone else to start something from scratch.
     
  18. Poplypop

    Poplypop Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    My balance thread suggestion is fast heals.

    Fast heals are an important part of the hign end game and druids seem to be a better fast healer till relics. (see data below) yet clerics are the primary healing class.

    Clerics don't get a single pre-relic "fast heal" - Ethereal Remedy at level 59. (325 mana, 1.25 sec cast, 975 hp of heal)

    Druids get a fast heal as an ancient - Nathure's Soothing (285 mana, 1.25 sec cast, 1090 hp of heal)

    Now clerics do get a relic fast heal - Althuna's Remedy (330 mana, 1.1 sec cast, 1350 hp of heal)

    I feel like fast heals need rebalanced so clerics can be better fast healers even without relics.
     
  19. Wiz

    Wiz NOT DONATING *EVER*

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,116
    This is pretty much an exact example of what you should NOT suggest for a BD thread. It's a valid point, but post it in S&R.
     
  20. Thinkmeats

    Thinkmeats War Is Good For Business

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,039
    The S&R thread about the SoD economy is hopelessly cluttered and confusing. I'd be all for a BD thread trying to determine whether or not the droprate of raw plat / gems in camps should be looked at, and if so, what level camps to change (40s-60s, 60-65s, or all levels). This is a mite broad for a BD topic, but I tend to think the air of legitimacy/gravitas BD threads have would keep the thread focused and more useful. I'm not myself wholly convinced that the gem/plat droprate needs uppage, but I *have* noticed a big change in prices over the last few months, so clearly something's changing. A thread full of cogent points and well-researched numbers would be just the thing for this subject.
     

Share This Page