mellee crits and nots.
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robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
Blubuds said:
when you say "those", ae stun is a spell and divine stun is an aa that should be in the first 50 you buy as a paladin. If you're having trouble keeping aggro that's definitely why
all righty, brace yourselves, pally haters.
lets start from the top, shall we?
FD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lull line, if a lull is resisted u can end up pulling the entire area with no way to get rid of the agro as paladins dont get FD. also about the lull line, i usually end up pulling for my grps and i can hardly remember the last time i actually USED lull.
/s 7 - lady blade or w/e its called - sucks for several reasons: it drains stamina like MAD, way faster than /s 5, second it procs VERY RARELY, just the other day i decided to try it out with acumen AND ancient regen on, it lasted like a minute and procced TWICE.
now more about AE agro. AE blind - MR based. (AE) stuns - MR based. if a mob has high mr - good luck tanking it. and fyi the AE blind gets resisted fairly often ae does the ae stun even when fighting mediocreish mobs. now a note to all my friends out there saying "just use AE stuns to get agro" ok. hows this, i have <<<<<17>>>>> FT on my pally, and if i will have to spam Ae blind AND stuns to keep and HOLD agro (hold means that the mobs dont start pounding on casters when they heal/nuke once) i will run out of mana pretty damn fast, 3 fights tops.
a lil info for the staff, ive gotten about 40AAs since the nerf went in xping in places like cata,fg,fr,rsm and other areas, and i have to say the effect is VERY noticeable, now instead of being able to safely keep my grp out of agro i have to keep chaining AE stuns which is very mana heavy and leads to a lot of downtime. once again im saying, take our hot agro, ok, but give us something to be able to maintain our AE Agro abilities, like lower mana on stuns and recast time on blinds or smthg cause right now the shaft we got is pretty...OUCH
now you say nerf hot agro, ok thats fine, but give us something to compensate for this loss, ie make blind less resistable or at least with a faster recast time,
oh and btw Touch of the Theron - blows - worst money i ever spent on a spell, in spell description i read it said: cures curses blind poison disease - but in fact it has a looooong recast time and does NOTHING even for simple diseases which are better left to be cured with normal disease cures.
and all this talk about "pretty much group CH AA" wth you get this? Hand of Piety - 1.25 k base heal GROUP, NOT RAID, GROUP wide. Usable ONCE every 36mins. Group Hots are NOT raid wide, but GROUP wide yet again. PS pallys do NOT got CHEAL
so please, next time, before you make a post about classes you have no idea how to play, think and stop yourself. youll look a lot smarter talking about things you DO know
and a reference to the point that started this thread. Pally role vs Sk role. Paladins BUFF/HEAL themselves and grp to better perform against foes. SKs debuff and leech the powers of their enemies. So, pallys BOOST their allies making giving them an upper hand over the mobs. SKs LOWER the mobs abilities to do the same thing. Same thing, different approach.
im sure theres stuff i forgot to say so ill be back later
lets start from the top, shall we?
FD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lull line, if a lull is resisted u can end up pulling the entire area with no way to get rid of the agro as paladins dont get FD. also about the lull line, i usually end up pulling for my grps and i can hardly remember the last time i actually USED lull.
/s 7 - lady blade or w/e its called - sucks for several reasons: it drains stamina like MAD, way faster than /s 5, second it procs VERY RARELY, just the other day i decided to try it out with acumen AND ancient regen on, it lasted like a minute and procced TWICE.
now more about AE agro. AE blind - MR based. (AE) stuns - MR based. if a mob has high mr - good luck tanking it. and fyi the AE blind gets resisted fairly often ae does the ae stun even when fighting mediocreish mobs. now a note to all my friends out there saying "just use AE stuns to get agro" ok. hows this, i have <<<<<17>>>>> FT on my pally, and if i will have to spam Ae blind AND stuns to keep and HOLD agro (hold means that the mobs dont start pounding on casters when they heal/nuke once) i will run out of mana pretty damn fast, 3 fights tops.
a lil info for the staff, ive gotten about 40AAs since the nerf went in xping in places like cata,fg,fr,rsm and other areas, and i have to say the effect is VERY noticeable, now instead of being able to safely keep my grp out of agro i have to keep chaining AE stuns which is very mana heavy and leads to a lot of downtime. once again im saying, take our hot agro, ok, but give us something to be able to maintain our AE Agro abilities, like lower mana on stuns and recast time on blinds or smthg cause right now the shaft we got is pretty...OUCH
now you say nerf hot agro, ok thats fine, but give us something to compensate for this loss, ie make blind less resistable or at least with a faster recast time,
oh and btw Touch of the Theron - blows - worst money i ever spent on a spell, in spell description i read it said: cures curses blind poison disease - but in fact it has a looooong recast time and does NOTHING even for simple diseases which are better left to be cured with normal disease cures.
and all this talk about "pretty much group CH AA" wth you get this? Hand of Piety - 1.25 k base heal GROUP, NOT RAID, GROUP wide. Usable ONCE every 36mins. Group Hots are NOT raid wide, but GROUP wide yet again. PS pallys do NOT got CHEAL
so please, next time, before you make a post about classes you have no idea how to play, think and stop yourself. youll look a lot smarter talking about things you DO know
and a reference to the point that started this thread. Pally role vs Sk role. Paladins BUFF/HEAL themselves and grp to better perform against foes. SKs debuff and leech the powers of their enemies. So, pallys BOOST their allies making giving them an upper hand over the mobs. SKs LOWER the mobs abilities to do the same thing. Same thing, different approach.
im sure theres stuff i forgot to say so ill be back later
Manluas
Dalayan Elder
Vartenaal said:
I have to correct you here, Touch of the Theron is in fact the best curespell ingame. It removes A TON of Counters of all the above mentioned. I agree, it is VERY situational but so is lvl 65 Necro undead nuke? Does that make it bad? Hell no. Take Rust factory or Clockwork clear for example. You will LOVE having that spell there.
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
Vartenaal said:
go to HHK and run up the wrong stairwell
Tempus
Staff Emeritus
Manluas said:
I am pretty sure a pally being able to grab aggro on an infinite number of mobs without a resist check of anykind using grp HoTs wasover powering and not a "niche".
Whether he is joking or not, if you feel that Pallys are on the ass end of AoE aggro then make some specific requests for spell changes by posting the current spell and what you think it should be chagned to and WHY you think it should be changed. If you think a style is messed up then post some rationale thoughts about how it could be improved without becoming overpowered. Lets say for example that we want to avoid statements like "lower the mana cost on stuns", and move forward with that line of reasoning.
At this point the post are just coming off as QQ muh hawts got changed.
when i said "pally hate" i didnt mean developers, i meant all those people in the previous 5 pages that kept on bashing paladins without having much idea about their own class and especially paladins (ie ppl who think getting to level 15 is hard) and i just didnt feel like /quoting every single one of them, i just read it all and made my post a summary of what i think on those points they bring up.
as for ToT - still i have to say very very MEH. the IP encounter youre referring to, totally dont need it there, can be done way easier without it. as for running up the wrong stair in hhk....well i used to have a self-destuctive fetish on live by jumping off of high places to see how much i hit for, but poisoning myself....well thats a different league of suicide
the style, well like i said, from my experience the stamina drain/# procs ratio is waaaaay too low. to compare: if you have acumen and ancient regen on your normal /s 5 time doubles or thereabouts and lasts about 2mins or so, dont remember exact time, but i did time it at one point and its in that ballpark. but with /s 7, it lasted max 1 min with BOTH those sta regen spells on me.
but ya, ae tankage has always been the pally thing which is why i think something needs to be done to at least partially counterbalance the hot nerf. sure in some ways its good, for instance when im auxing the MT on a raid mob i end up stealing agro towards end of fight, but in grp situation...if were unable to grab ae agro, well hell might as well play sk then or a monk.
just my 2cps and ill think about specific suggestions, thanks for replying though tempus
as for ToT - still i have to say very very MEH. the IP encounter youre referring to, totally dont need it there, can be done way easier without it. as for running up the wrong stair in hhk....well i used to have a self-destuctive fetish on live by jumping off of high places to see how much i hit for, but poisoning myself....well thats a different league of suicide
the style, well like i said, from my experience the stamina drain/# procs ratio is waaaaay too low. to compare: if you have acumen and ancient regen on your normal /s 5 time doubles or thereabouts and lasts about 2mins or so, dont remember exact time, but i did time it at one point and its in that ballpark. but with /s 7, it lasted max 1 min with BOTH those sta regen spells on me.
but ya, ae tankage has always been the pally thing which is why i think something needs to be done to at least partially counterbalance the hot nerf. sure in some ways its good, for instance when im auxing the MT on a raid mob i end up stealing agro towards end of fight, but in grp situation...if were unable to grab ae agro, well hell might as well play sk then or a monk.
just my 2cps and ill think about specific suggestions, thanks for replying though tempus
Mythryn
Dalayan Master
Vartenaal said:when i said "pally hate" i didnt mean developers, i meant all those people in the previous 5 pages that kept on bashing paladins without having much idea about their own class and especially paladins (ie ppl who think getting to level 15 is hard) and i just didnt feel like /quoting every single one of them, i just read it all and made my post a summary of what i think on those points they bring up.
as for ToT - still i have to say very very MEH. the IP encounter youre referring to, totally dont need it there, can be done way easier without it. as for running up the wrong stair in hhk....well i used to have a self-destuctive fetish on live by jumping off of high places to see how much i hit for, but poisoning myself....well thats a different league of suicide
the style, well like i said, from my experience the stamina drain/# procs ratio is waaaaay too low. to compare: if you have acumen and ancient regen on your normal /s 5 time doubles or thereabouts and lasts about 2mins or so, dont remember exact time, but i did time it at one point and its in that ballpark. but with /s 7, it lasted max 1 min with BOTH those sta regen spells on me.
but ya, ae tankage has always been the pally thing which is why i think something needs to be done to at least partially counterbalance the hot nerf. sure in some ways its good, for instance when im auxing the MT on a raid mob i end up stealing agro towards end of fight, but in grp situation...if were unable to grab ae agro, well hell might as well play sk then or a monk.
just my 2cps and ill think about specific suggestions, thanks for replying though tempus
If you think you need a counterbalance, make a post (don't piggyback on this one) about how either your AE agro style needs a boost, or you need a spell at XX level that does YY for ZZ mana, and your reasoning. It's the only real way to get things changed.
Naethyn
Dalayan Adventurer
I've always understood that a resisted spell in no way reduces the amount of aggro generated by a spell, unless that spell specifically has a aggro modifier.
In which case you still generate aggro for the spell, but the aggro modifier gets resisted. Which means stuns produce just as much aggro resisted as unresisted.
Is this the case for SoD?
In which case you still generate aggro for the spell, but the aggro modifier gets resisted. Which means stuns produce just as much aggro resisted as unresisted.
Is this the case for SoD?
Dzillon
Dalayan Master
To me resisted = no aggro or like minimal aggro.
I have something rather unrelated to the core problem of Paladin HoT aggro. Why would Pally hot aggro be reduced to almost nothing while other hots from cleric wouldn't (or if it has been ignore this) ? This sounds rather snide.
Otherwise seeing how Vart now has trouble with aggro, I think it might need a little aggro boost ; but tbh I don't know hate numbers like staffers / ex-staffers know. So this will take time for being tuned which is ok really, nothing should be rushed.
I have something rather unrelated to the core problem of Paladin HoT aggro. Why would Pally hot aggro be reduced to almost nothing while other hots from cleric wouldn't (or if it has been ignore this) ? This sounds rather snide.
Otherwise seeing how Vart now has trouble with aggro, I think it might need a little aggro boost ; but tbh I don't know hate numbers like staffers / ex-staffers know. So this will take time for being tuned which is ok really, nothing should be rushed.
Naethyn
Dalayan Adventurer
One of the biggest advantages for a cleric to cast a cele heal instead of a direct heal is the lower aggro generated.
I could be wrong, but a cele heal generates aggro as a single cast buff. The healing done from the buff does not generate aggro to the original caster.
If that is true a paladin HoT would only generate aggro on the initial cast of the buff and not from the effect of the buff.
I could be wrong, but a cele heal generates aggro as a single cast buff. The healing done from the buff does not generate aggro to the original caster.
If that is true a paladin HoT would only generate aggro on the initial cast of the buff and not from the effect of the buff.