New Area Bonus Proposal

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Waldoff, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Waldoff

    Waldoff Administrator Staff Member

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    Balancing zone exp has always been a tough job. Exp has to be balanced against money, useful items, difficulty and a whole slew of things. To make things even worse - balancing a zones difficulty and exp has to take into consideration gear changes over time. Often, as players get more powerful difficulty goes down much faster than new exp ones difficulty goes up. This means that even a zone that was perfectly balanced with a group of people with IP gear may be too good to a group with Sanctum gear - if new abilities and general power makes time to kill and difficulty go down drastically exp may be best in older zones. Of course, changing the zone linearly may hurt the risk versus reward for everyone else.

    This problem was partially supposed to be solved with the new area bonus wiz put in way back when. With a exp bonus that increasivngly goes down, you gain incentive to explore new zones slowly and more naturally as your bonus fades in each zone. It is my belief that this is not doing enough to incentivize such things.

    *To preface: The numbers will be done in a way that will end up with a general increase (albeit moderate) in exp gain. This is not an exp nerf.*

    The new proposal is to widen new area bonuses and prolong the time it takes to reset them after 65. The numbers we are currently kicking around are 75%, 50%, 25%, 10%, 0, -10%, -25%, -50% (right now we are 25%, 10%, 0, -10%, -25%).

    75% would go fairly quickly - with the road from 50 to 0 being similiar to todays current 25 to -10%. The change from -10% to -50% would go similiarly to todays -10% to -25%.

    Finally would be the change in resetting your bonuses. Resets from levels 0-65 would be the exact same. After 65 we would double the amount of Exp for a "natural" reset to occur. Alterntatively, we will allow you to pay platinum (the number in our head is 10k to 1k depending on how close to a "natural " reset you are) to reset your bonuses on demand

    I think these changes will do three main things. One - there will be much greater incentive to explore new zones. This would also help prevent tons of people all going to the same zone. Second - this makes it realistic to "visit" old zones you loved but are past progression wise when your bonus has been recently cleared for fair reward. On the same token, this will prevent people from squatting in the same zone. Finally - this will increase general EXP for those who use the system to their advantage while providing enough flexibility to make those who want to squat to do wso (albeit with either an exp or platinum penalty).

    Again - the numbers will be done in a way that this will result in an increase to total exp gained per unit of time. I do not want it to be a large increase, but this idea is not meant to be a nerf to exp and we will balance with that in mind.

    Constructive thoughts are more than welcome.
     
  2. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Will these exp modifiers apply to tome exp?
     
  3. Waldoff

    Waldoff Administrator Staff Member

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    Everything except quests.
     
  4. Ulandx

    Ulandx Dalayan Elder

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    Maybe have a closer look on existing modifiers,they seem very unbalanced to me.
    Some examples:
    Went from 25% bonus to 10% malus leveling in Lesser Fay lately from 10 to 18 with my Wizard alt.
    Lasanth:going from 25% bonus to a 10% malus (or worse) is a matter of hours only.
    Also "camping" Sorc's and Crystal Caverns with my 55 Box for dozens of hours I notice I still
    have only 10% malus in Sorc's but 25% malus in CC.

    In general I think other factors are much more important as to where players go to xp:
    Kedge Keep - noone goes there despise the 30% xp bonus.
    Plaguelands are deserted because they literally have *zero* loot.
    Darkwoods,Shadowdale,Faentharc - no loot and additionally awful visibility.
    FEARstone - enough said :)
    Freeport:no cash,sometimes group mass pull there for xp.
    Prophet's,Dreadlands,Murk: too much see invis roamers,mobs spread out too far in super huge zones,players only go there for quest stuff.
    Undercaverns : going through a bunch of lightblues to reach the interesting mobs (in the very east) isnt fun.
    Whisperling forest: Is this zone even finished ?
    Lake Starfall : now that is a strange one,superior to most other zones cash loot but noone ever there,again bad visibility,this time paired with underwater fighting and mobs that knockback all the time.

    Now lets have a look at some popular zones:
    Dragon Necropolis: Nice cash,good visibility,interesting mix of melee and caster mobs.
    Lasanth : Nice cash,good visibility
    Sorc's: Nice cash,good visibility,interesting layout
    Great Divide (Harthuks): Nice cash,good visibility
    Eldenal's : still super popular,I let you guess why. :)
    Overgrowth: Oh my god the drops (and the quested ring) :),good visibility
    Kaesora,BQ : cash,drops,good visibilty,how can one not like it ?
    Remnants: endless supply of non social non aggro mobs which even have cash loot.
     
  5. Moraelintz

    Moraelintz Dalayan Elder

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    I am in kedge right now and hate every minute of it
     
  6. Radaere

    Radaere Dalayan Elder

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    Kedge Keep is my favorite zone but I have never seen any reason to go there besides quests
     
  7. Radaere

    Radaere Dalayan Elder

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    I don't see this change making any difference in this regard
     
  8. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I think that improving new zone bonus exp is the best way to try to get players into abandoned zones short of actually improving those zones themselves via respawn rates, higher base exp, more cash, etc. Ideally every zone would have things that make people want to exp there but that would be a monumental undertaking that is probably not realistic for the server. This change would still have people grinding Kaesora and the other usual zones most of the time but at least it might make people more likely to join groups headed to under-utilized zones.

    There are some zones I think that could be changed to be more popular relatively easily too. Deepshade for example- for some reason there are lots of bad nodrop items and almost every droppable item vendors for almost nothing. And Citadel of course.
     
  9. Waldoff

    Waldoff Administrator Staff Member

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    Need more opinions
     
  10. saintonan

    saintonan Dalayan Adventurer

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    I honestly feel like this is a solution in search of a problem. If it has to be implemented, though, it doesn't seem overly onerous provided the xp penalty resets much more quickly than is currently the case when you xp elsewhere.
     
  11. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I have not been in game but how can you change the way exp works (with tomes) and not reset exp bonuses?
     
  12. Eihesk

    Eihesk Dalayan Beginner

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    I like the idea of more new xp bonuses. I think there should be other considerations for repopulating old zones as well. The Deepshade was brought up as an example. There's little point going there for anything but quests. The mobs drop almost nothing in terms of plat or decent vendor items, and the xp isn't really worth it for the pita the zone is. A lot of the older zones have similar problems in terms of xp vs cashflow.
     
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  13. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    So let me go ahead and write some things without actually thinking it through.

    I do not quite understand why you want to give us negative exp ever. Basically you're telling me that you want to penalize me for playing this game.For the most part you can travel to any zone and not have to worry about another group being in there. If there so happens to be another group you can just share the zone w/ another individual.

    As it stands I have a negative adjust in Kaesora. Before this patch I was not penalized for exping there. Now when I get home from work I'm going to get penalized for going to an exp zone that I find fun.

    So bascially at the end of the day you want to hurt anyone who is huting for tomes (the majority of your server). If you want to start adding negative adjusts to tomes you need to make that penalty fade a lot quicker. I dont want to leave a zone for a week and come back to still have ANY negative penalty.


    TL:DR
    - Make all negative penalties fade to 0 a lot quicker than what it currently is.
    - Stop trying to lure me into shittier zones by adjusting my exp to negative in zones that matter. Want people in your shitbag zones? Make them start droping tomes / not sucking so much.
    - Manguadi Quote "make better content. Dev Better"
     
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  14. Bridger

    Bridger Dalayan Beginner

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    You are misunderstanding what is being proposed.

    If the base xp for killing a mob is say 10000 xp then you will receive between 17500 xp (for +75%) and 5000 xp (for -50%)

    Currently you receive between 12500 xp (for +25%) and 7500 xp (for -25%).

    You NEVER receive negative xp.
     
  15. booster

    booster Dalayan Master

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    why have negative exp modifiers at all. why not just make 0 be the penalty.
     
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  16. serinar16

    serinar16 Dalayan Beginner

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    As a relative newcomer, I thought I'd share my take over the past two months since I've started playing.

    The XP bonus absolutely is a motivator in me going out and checking out other zones. That said, it's not a *huge* motivator. Of far more importance are:

    - How difficult is it to get to?
    - What kind of base XP is there?
    - How tough are the MOBs?
    - Is there decent cash? (I'm a true newb, and as such, still dirt poor ;))
    - Are there some good drops?

    I'd rather go have a good time and not worry about +25% XP. It's *nice*, but not my sole reason for exploring. That said, penalties suck TBH. Everyone has their own play style. At most, I think an XP penalty should cap at -10%. -50% is way too punitive, and punishes those who are trying to look for money, loot, or just enjoy a dungeon.

    If we're looking at better use of underutilized zones, the ways to do this, I think, are based on the motivators I mentioned above:

    - Better accessibility
    - Better loot/cash
    - Fun challenges
    - Better base XP

    I think it's also important to consider that there will always be "solo-friendly" zones, and group-friendly ones. Additionally, there will be ones where gearing will make all the difference, and some where it's less of a factor. I also think we need to be careful of allowing plat to buy progress (in this case by resetting bonuses). If anything, this simply allows those with tons of expendible cash to level that much faster in a sort of positive feedback loop. That said, there's the desire for plat sinks, too...

    In short, I don't support heavy penalties (-10% is as punitive as it should be IMO). If the desire is balance versus gear, it's going to somewhat be a losing battle, though tweaking some areas to take advantage of better geared players (with better reward to match) may still provide sufficient solo/lesser-geared areas to still function in a balanced fashion. I definitely don't support using money to reset XP bonuses - I think it only exacerbates the problem.

    If the goal is better zone utilization, consider much more than simple zone bonuses/penalties. I don't think that's the main motivator here.

    Ramble off.
     
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  17. Radaere

    Radaere Dalayan Elder

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    I like this
     
  18. Bridger

    Bridger Dalayan Beginner

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    Well if you want to have xp's of 17500 15000 12500 10000 7500 and 5000 you can express this as a base of 10000 with adjustments of +75% +50% +25% 0% -25% and -50%

    OR

    a base of 5000 with adjustments of +250% +200% +150% +100% +50% and 0%

    They are identical.
     
  19. Titanas

    Titanas Dalayan Elder

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    Something like this is a bandaid for bigger issues as mentioned like some zones just being note beneficial enough compared to other zones.

    Deepshade is brought up a few times. I personaly Like deepshade I've actualy geared up 2 guilds from being 60+ to being ready for Tier 3 zones with deepshade. The zone is extremely fun if you go in there with several groups of people.

    ULANDX hit the nail on the head with some of his zone break downs.

    serinar16 Also brought up a really good point about solo and group friendly zones. There really are not many solo friendly zones at 65. I would think outdoor zones would be aimed for solo but the amount of roaming see invisible and aggressive mobs make them more threatening then dungeons where mobs stand still all day. Rements is the only zone I could see some one being successful as a solo player due to the areas of non aggressive mobs.

    As odd as this sounds I really miss outdoor camps like ones from live as well as kite groups and such.

    Kedge is a UBER zone to exp in if you have good damage shields. Mobs in that zone hit fast and soft. With Druid Paladin combo I could kill mobs really fast here.

    One thing that will upset me is camping my spell in Redsun mines (Healing flames) I spend entirely to much time there as is for that spell in a extremely boring camp with mobs that only have the most annoying of abilities (Damage shield) to spend many hours a day there and after a while getting less exp is harsh.

    Long story short the exp adjust will move people around for better exp which is a good thing but it is only a minor fix to a larger problem.
     
  20. Ulandx

    Ulandx Dalayan Elder

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    This proposed new xp modifier system also sounds to me like a "monumental undertaking".
    Better invest that time and work in revamping under used zones,it cant be that hard to
    add a few plat to mobs in Freeport for example.
    Generally I dislike the xp modifiers,as others have mentioned they are mostly perceived as a
    penalty and not something which encourages players to go somewhere else.


    I dont care for the actual numbers,but dropping from 3k xp to 1.2k xp per mob like my 55 Pally
    in CC sure feels like negative xp.


    Yup,remove zone xp modifiers which are based on how long a player spent in a certain zone completly.
     

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