NPC Complete Heals

stope21

stope21

Dalayan Elder
I'm not sure if it was intended to be like this, as I was still some what new to the server when the changes were made. The changes im talking about were the changes to CH's where they went from about a 6 second cast time to a 2.0 and 2.5 second cast time. This was a fine change, and i kind of like it.

The only issue with it, is it seems NPC's that cast CH's also now have a 2.0 or 2.5 second cast time on they're CH's. This makes them VERY hard to interrupt before complete heal lands. Basically you have to either cast stun or interrupt them b4 they cast they're CH which is next to impossible, or keep the mob perma stunned.

My suggestions for possible solutions in order of what I would like the most:
A) Increase there cast time on they're CH to make it possible to interrupt them.
B) A cool down on mob CH's similiar to what PC's have.
C) Cange they're CH spell to a regular type heal.

Ideally, give a bigger window to interrupt the mob. A cool down on a boss's CH still means the boss would have "1 free CH" which essentially just adds a variable amount of HP to the mob (depending on how low HP the mob is when the CH lands), and thus a gear fight. The final suggestion would make it so you have the opportunity to interrupt some heals, the more you interrupt the less dmg you need to do to the mob throughout the fight.

I've always been a big fan of skill versus gear, and mobs being pretty close to impossible to prevent from CHing makes the fight more of a gear fight b/c there is little if any opportunity to prevent the mob from CHing in they're current 2.0/2.5 second cast time state.
 
stope21 said:
I'm not sure if it was intended to be like this, as I was still some what new to the server when the changes were made. The changes im talking about were the changes to CH's where they went from about a 6 second cast time to a 2.0 and 2.5 second cast time. This was a fine change, and i kind of like it.

The only issue with it, is it seems NPC's that cast CH's also now have a 2.0 or 2.5 second cast time on they're CH's. This makes them VERY hard to interrupt before complete heal lands. Basically you have to either cast stun or interrupt them b4 they cast they're CH which is next to impossible, or keep the mob perma stunned.

My suggestions for possible solutions in order of what I would like the most:
A) Increase there cast time on they're CH to make it possible to interrupt them.
B) A cool down on mob CH's similiar to what PC's have.
C) Cange they're CH spell to a regular type heal.

Ideally, give a bigger window to interrupt the mob. A cool down on a boss's CH still means the boss would have "1 free CH" which essentially just adds a variable amount of HP to the mob (depending on how low HP the mob is when the CH lands), and thus a gear fight. The final suggestion would make it so you have the opportunity to interrupt some heals, the more you interrupt the less dmg you need to do to the mob throughout the fight.

I've always been a big fan of skill versus gear, and mobs being pretty close to impossible to prevent from CHing makes the fight more of a gear fight b/c there is little if any opportunity to prevent the mob from CHing in they're current 2.0/2.5 second cast time state.
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I think, since Fusion raided Storm's Eye last night, that this post is an indirect referance to Faralak. In which case, the faralak encounter as a whole should be reevaluated and not NPC Complete Healing.
 
Cinn said:
I think, since Fusion raided Storm's Eye last night, that this post is an indirect referance to Faralak. In which case, the faralak encounter as a whole should be reevaluated and not NPC Complete Healing.
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We actually did not even attempt Faralak last night, but having mobs able to CH themselves, and each other (offhand the nobles in SK are fond of CH chaining each other) 3-5 times per fight seems unfair, since PC CH cooldowns make them a once-per-fight spell, or even less often when clearing trash/xping.
 
robopirateninja said:
We actually did not even attempt Faralak last night, but having mobs able to CH themselves, and each other (offhand the nobles in SK are fond of CH chaining each other) 3-5 times per fight seems unfair, since PC CH cooldowns make them a once-per-fight spell, or even less often when clearing trash/xping.
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Honestly if you cant position the nobles to be out of range for heals you pretty much are just failing. baddly.

There are mobs in the game currently that are designed specifically around their abilities to CH or be CHed. Namely Lazuli and Faralak. It seems slightly retarded to change these encounters completely because some people dont know how to position mobs. :dumb:

I will give you the benefit of the doubt though, and agree that yes, a mob CHing itself is very, very gay. And that if it does have to be changed I would go with...
C) Change they're CH spell to a regular type heal.
 
Cinn said:
Honestly if you cant position the nobles to be out of range for heals you pretty much are just failing. baddly.

There are mobs in the game currently that are designed specifically around their abilities to CH or be CHed. Namely Lazuli and Faralak. It seems slightly retarded to change these encounters completely because some people dont know how to position mobs. :dumb:

I will give you the benefit of the doubt though, and agree that yes, a mob CHing itself is very, very gay.
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It's not the CH that we have issue with, it's chaining 3+ CHs when PCs are limited to one per fight (10 min cooldown isn't it?). CH being available to mobs is fine, I think that the changes should be more along the lines of what elindal suggested, a cooldown or at least a long enough cast time to make them interruptible.

I don't think increading the cast time on CH would change the encounters completely.
 
I can give a lower level example of this issue.


Tidefang is a royal pain in the butt and will chain cast CH on himself. The only effective way to bring him down is to perma stun which isn't exzactly possible all the time depending on the group.

I agree and /sgin on this.. Need NPC cool down on CH.
 
The heals on the priests in plaguelands are pretty dumb..
i cant bow kite twice at same time.. =/ one heal each other to full
 
Mythryn said:
What about making NPC CH just a 7500 point heal.
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I don't think that's a very good solution, because, as cinn said, some fights are supposed to be based around your ability/skill in interrupting mobs, and fighting a cleric mob should be an exercise in preventing it from healing itself. It's simply too difficult to prevent a mob who CAN CH from doing it a ton of times in a row right now, which i don't think is the intended use of CH.
 
Cinn said:
I think, since Fusion raided Storm's Eye last night, that this post is an indirect referance to Faralak. In which case, the faralak encounter as a whole should be reevaluated and not NPC Complete Healing.
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Faralak is definatly a concern of mine, but I have very little knowledge of the encounter as we have only attempted him once or twice. My #1 concern was actually Tidefang, as Kirin said. He either has to be perma stunned, or fought by people w/ such gear that they can continually tank him CH after CH. furthermore, he can only be engaged by 12 people limiting class availability, and therefore less available, IE: bards/enchanters to stun and/or mana drain.

But this shouldnt be limited to an adept. W/ SoD 2.0 there is now less support classes at every raid regardless! So that means if there are still 2 healing elementals (in faralaks case), and u have 2 people on each to keep them consistently stunned, that leaves u with at most 14 raiders (or 22% of your raiders busy doing non-main mob related things). Versus, 1.0 where if u had 2 people consistently stunning per mob, that left you with 32 people to the main mob, or rather you lost 11% of your people to non-main mob related things. So you can see where you are hurt more by encounters of this nature. But that is beyond the point.

The point is, I think having a chance to interrupt a mob's CH adds to the skill factor in encounters. I will also go onto say, Game is much more fun when its not just about having the leetest gear, and i think everyone will agree with me here. I think CH's were inadvertently changed to 2.0/2.5 second cast time when PC clerics CH's got changed. I repeat myself, this was a positive change. But, i dont think it was a positive change for NPC's to be able to do this aswell because it takes some of the skill out of the game.

Tidefang is not my only example of mobs that annoyingly chain CH themselves regardless of what you do, mini coralsha in faentharc does the same thing. One of the WW dragons does it aswell, i believe it is lazuli.

Cinn said:
Honestly if you cant position the nobles to be out of range for heals you pretty much are just failing. baddly.

There are mobs in the game currently that are designed specifically around their abilities to CH or be CHed. Namely Lazuli and Faralak. It seems slightly retarded to change these encounters completely because some people dont know how to position mobs. :dumb:
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Stormkeep: Fusion has never had even the smallest issue w/ the coralsha's CHing eachother on multipulls. This has nothing to do with positionining whatsoever. The reason for this is b/c our enchanter always kept the mobs we wernt currently killing perma mezzed. Ohh, and we definatly understand positioning mobs so they cant heal eachother if they were to ever have the chance ;).

Lazuli: How is positioning going to help, its one mob???? :psyduck:

You assumed that I or Fusion is asking for these encounters to be changed, we never had a problem with them (atleast none of the raids i've been on, and i havnt missed a raid yet).

I think tyrone was saying that it would be quite annoying for them OR any multi cleric mob pull to constant CH themselves/eachother. Ever been xping or duoing in RSM and pulled 2 clerics that chain CH eachother until oom? Its quite annoying b/c no matter how good you are, chances are you're not going to stop them.

I definatly think faralak should be looked at, but like i said -- i have VERY little knowledge of the encounter. I think the bigger issue is NPC CH as a whole, and i have already stated possible fixes.
 
robopirateninja said:
I don't think that's a very good solution, because, as cinn said, some fights are supposed to be based around your ability/skill in interrupting mobs, and fighting a cleric mob should be an exercise in preventing it from healing itself. It's simply too difficult to prevent a mob who CAN CH from doing it a ton of times in a row right now, which i don't think is the intended use of CH.
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I agree. Limiting the CH amnt is a good suggestion, and could work if they chain it. But ideally i want the chance to interrupt the heal (whatever it is) b/c that take skill!
 
The two elementals around Faralak don't even CH to begin with(unless there's some cap on their CHeals which I suppose is possible when Faralak has a crap ton of HP himself) and as far as I can tell they don't heal any differently from before when Faralak was just a yellow con. It will always be a luck fight when you have enc's stunning it. There's a pretty big resist rate and sometimes you're pulling your hair out, other times everything works right and you get few resists and stuns hit their mark. It's a far easier fight with two bards. If they know what they are doing, it's cake.

As far as CH goes, yeah I've been pretty friggin annoyed with it as of late. I've stood there doing nothing but watching a noble for when he started to CH, hit mez the very friggin instant he started casting and his CH went off still. As far as I'm concerned the strat of mezzing a mob to prevent a CH is out the window and we're forced to drag out fights on cleric mobs. Again, and again, and again, and again. /yawn.
 
Simple solution, have NPC's cast the "old" CH, not the current one that players use. That is how the encounter was designed but due to a "nerf" to the players the mobs got a HUGE boost in ability.
 
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It's hard to envision any cheal fight with 2.5 sec cast cheals being a fun time for anyone. I'm not sure what solution would be best, but I can see where this would be an issue.
 
LoL... is simply absurd to try kite plague priest in eplaguelands.. they CH everytime.. and seems mana endless
 
brasileira said:
LoL... is simply absurd to try kite plague priest in eplaguelands.. they CH everytime.. and seems mana endless
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This is the same pre and post CH nerf. Find a new target or modify your strat. They are not impossible.
 
Sekrit plague priest stratz!

If you have good resists, or can heal yourself somehow, root him. He'll burn all his mana on nuking you. When he stops. Blow him up.
 
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