Oh no, it's the Monk Item thread!!!

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Slaariel, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. Slaariel

    Slaariel *The Only Real Life Girl Dev* Staff Member

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    With the new STR/DEX mechanic, I had to hammer down the edges of stat progression and that involved changing about 100 items. Did I miss some? Clearly. ARE ALL ITEMS SUPPOSED TO BE GREAT? NO, HOWEVER PLEASE tell me if there are GLARING item issues w/r/t this change. A monk-usable item with no STR/DEX is not an issue.

    ALSO Monk fists and weapons have been historically contentious. I am pretty sure Horok is fixed now but take this opportunity and this thread to bring up these rotten old issues and see if we can't put them to bed.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Monk spires bracer, seeing as how it is monk-only, should maybe have some str added since that's our thing now.

    I lost a combined 62 str and dex with this change which is irritating.
     
  3. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    now you have to take 2 trips to get the groceries out of the car.
     
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  4. Kedrin

    Kedrin Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I lost str due to this patch, thanks a lot monks! This stat was already very scarce at the top end. Now it seem to be even worse.

    Lleoc seem to have 441 Str where as a monk like Tahn has 528. Seems a bit off to me, but what do I know.

    Perhaps items like: Fel'talla, Path of the Stars, Cycyl, Girdle of Perpetual Motion, Strands of the Severed Fate, Darkened Galaxy-etched Bone, Undying Loyalty could have some Str love. Between all five items listed they have a total of 6 STR on them.

    Oh yeah, Scorched-wind Band also only has 5 STR. Another item that could use some love.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  5. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Yeah if str/dex matter beyond the Hidden Strength cap for us, it would be nice if the stats on t13 items were an improvement over previous tiers. It didn't matter much before since they were meaningless but now it kinda does.
     
  6. Tevinter

    Tevinter Dalayan Master

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    oh boy here we go

    SORROW LOOT:
    Boots have higher STR/DEX than 4.3 boots AND taeshlin boots(these have no str or dex, as reference by post above).
    Sorrow Back has higher STR/dex than NZ cloak, Thaz air cloak, shadowstaff, thaz water mini cloak, as well as being the 2nd highest haste item in the game available to monks.

    Golem battle bands (sanctum trash drop) provide more str than spires bracer AND rujik bracer combined. Eyes bracer seems pretty in line, but Rujik and Ree wrist are pretty undertuned. Ree bracer is arguable because it provides the highest haste, but rujik bracer doesnt have anything very redeeming about it.


    Taesh ring has bad str/dex from a hard mob.

    Another cool thing would be making essence of Tarhansar STR/DEX and EoTW AGI/STA, making one stat give offensive stats and the other one defensive stats. For barefist monks to get 160!! dex/str total from buffs is kind of absurd, plus blademaster makes buffs way strong and makes melee even more reliant on them which is kind of lame.

    Horok also has 50 STR/DEX total, i havent parsed yet but it could still be the best main hand option for monks.

    Curator hat has -50 dex and is generally a not great item.

    blademaster gives STR and dex making bards even stronger if a monk is around.

    BW gloves still have the same amount of elemental damage as UC gloves. Their procs are also VERY close in DPS. BW gloves will do 18560 base proc dmg over 1000 combat rounds, per hand, while UC gloves clock in at 18.000 per hand, per 1k combat rounds. BW glove proc has the advantage of a -resist adjust, but the difference is still very small considering most mobs also have low disease resist. My suggestion would be to buff BW glove proc rate. the difference between UC glove proc and silence is 10,500 base dmg of proc, and those mobs are relatively close to each other in difficulty, while the gap between UC and BW is very large. To keep this difference between proc matching based on previous progression, this would put BW gloves at 4.5% proc rate to be close to a 10k base proc difference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  7. Tevinter

    Tevinter Dalayan Master

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    oh before i forget BW gloves should also be 8 Fire dmg instead of 6 and they would maybe outparse weapons at the tier
     
  8. Tevinter

    Tevinter Dalayan Master

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    also nerfing STR and dex on a bunch of items hurt a lot of classes other than monk and that isnt cool to do
     
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  9. Tevinter

    Tevinter Dalayan Master

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    horok still eating regen
     
  10. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    ya pls make curator hat not shit lol. as is its like, worse than duo hat and comes off the hardest (killable/killed) 6 man in the game. i mean the difficulty difference in the fights is absolutely ridiculous and with this new change to all strength dex items i have like 389 dex with this item. either fix the dex or just make the mod / focus or both so good that it doesnt matter (ie dual wield, evo, way more double attack, etc)

    possibly out of place rant /over
     
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  11. Soric

    Soric Dalayan Beginner

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    I try not to complain about changes until I have had a chance to look at them, but to me this just seems like a poor job by the development team. To have to nerf or weaken about 100 items just to justify a single class change is stupid. While I agree monks needed looking at and help I don't believe this is the way to do it. This makes all other melee classes suffer and while I can't speak to the finished result to me it seems like this was rushed and poorly executed.

    After seeing this I have 1 simple request, please leave druids and bards alone. While yes there are a few things I would like changed after seeing what happened to monks all I can say is I am good with what I have.
     
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  12. daenar_sod

    daenar_sod Dalayan Elder

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    Same, I change my mind of the bst thread. Bsts are good where they are at
     
  13. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Slaariel, I know this goes against typical mass item patches, but considering the amount of items patched and the effect it may have on classes other than monks, it may be prudent to provide a list of items changed (Item_Name Old_Str/Old_Dex/Old_Proc_Rate/New_Str/New_Dex/New_Proc_Rate/Race_List/Class_List). Any issues will be found much more quickly due to crowd sourcing the review in a very quick and manageable manner. Additionally, it will be much easier for players to comment on items missing from the list too. My last rational for sort of bucking the norm and releasing a list is because this is not a new content patch where half the fun is letting the players figure it out. It is a large scale balancing changes on existing items, some of which have been in game for years. The players/devs will most likely earn no utility (mental happiness) by right clicking on ever item in the bank/inventory. This list will make it much easier to lay this beast to bed quickly.

    I don't have enough game knowledge to be too helpful with specific changes to hundreds of items, but some other people who post here clearly do.
     
  14. Obscenitor

    Obscenitor Dalayan Elder

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    lol
     
  15. Stonewalljack

    Stonewalljack Dalayan Adventurer

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    Why was the str/dex on horok brought up? Isn't the str/dex mechanic for bare fists only?

    Edit: I guess you could off hand with a bare fist, nevermind.
     
  16. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    T13 items are lower fist dps than t 10/11 items. This is bane damage 2.0
     
  17. sabuti

    sabuti Dalayan Elder

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    ? not sure if you're loling at the worse than duo hat part or hardest 6 man. but as is with slaar removing TONS of dex from items, this item having a shit mod and -50 dex its garbage.

    i don't know the last time you killed curator but the tank damage, ae damage and dps check on that fight is INSANE, and the fact that the bane got changed to undead makes you have to stack casters to even think about bringing a non pally tank with melees. i'm pretty confident in saying this fight will never be killed again by any other guild aside from polluted fwf variants. on 4.3 we've killed it boxing scrubs for weapons, brought beastlords, all sorts of dumpsters and i know you have done that many times as well. curator has a simple strat but the reasons i listed it makes it way harder which is why i believe the item shouldn't be on par / worse than a "tier 11" encounter in spires
     
  18. Grinkles

    Grinkles Developer

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    I don't have a horse in this race, but I want to say I'm disappointed to have lost 55 DEX on Grinkles overnight with the item changes. :( ENC is about the furthest class from MNK as possible, but that certainly didn't make me immune. 55 DEX on an Enchanter is probably negligible, given that Cascading Bond gives us a fixed 80% melee accuracy against all mobs, whether they be level 1 snakes or level 70 planar bosses, but nobody likes to see that magnitude of stat changes in the negative direction. I'm not sure why 14 classes had to take hits to STR/DEX so 1 class could ostensibly be buffed, but given that this is all still in flux, I'll just hold my breath and hope for a net positive outcome...
     
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  19. Sinnni

    Sinnni Dalayan Adventurer

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    nurfing str /dex over all items w/mnk on it sux for all hybridclass in game thed will drop under the hidencap max now
    we have hard time to find room for buffs alrdy now we need to go back to using stats all time to have use for the tome lines for the stats we did get nuked from this

    im happy im atm at a point im still maxed but looking at next gear lvl in tur ruj ect i will not win str/dex i will lous them
    and buffing 1 class by making 2 tome lins do nothing due to non can get at the number for the stt need to have the tomes work is not rly a fix for this game
     
  20. Tevinter

    Tevinter Dalayan Master

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