Policy Questions Thread

Discussion in 'Policy Plaza' started by Allielyn, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. Allielyn

    Allielyn *Pony*

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    If you have a question about policy that is not covered in the threads already in this forum, or would like to point to a thread that should be here, this thread is here for your convenience.

    It will be periodically cleaned up and condensed so players don't have to sift through pages of information to see what policies have been clarified. :toot:


    Previously Clarified:


    Re: Raidstalking -
    Simply being in the same zone does not count as raid stalking. It's very much a question of intent. Following a raid to snipe their PVP flagged players is not raid stalking if you kill and then get out. Flagging and deflagging your toons as PvP enabled is a trivial process. If you don't want to be PvP'd while raiding, don't flag yourself PvP.

    Re: # Of accounts allowed -

    You may own as many accounts as you like, but you may never play two characters from the same account.

    Re: Account Sharing and loss of pp/items/accounts -
    The setup of this server, with free accounts for everyone, means that account sharing becomes incredibly easy. The mechanics of the raid game on a small server further serves to facilitate this sharing - but the discretion you use to share your info is still your own, as is the responsibility for that decision.

    When you choose to share your info, you are trusting your character, gear, reputation, account, etc. to a person you may never have met. If they use your account to do dubious things that get your character banned - that's still your responsibility.

    To Summarize: We will not reimburse anything that was stolen. Your accounts are your responsibility. We will still ban any thieves we catch.

    Re: General Reimbursement of Items:

    We generally reimburse players for non-trivial stuff they looted with the wrong character/destroyed/accidentally gave to their pet, but only after checking properly that they had it in the first place. This does not mean you can be totally careless, it is still up to staff's discretion to decide whether an item is worth reimbursing!
    There are exceptions, e.g. some quests that are supposed to be difficult and rely on certain items you can reobtain yourself if you've deleted them in the past.

    Re: Skipping Content
    ANY Mobs (raid or otherwise) which are static cannot be skipped (by training away, or CoTH summoning, corpse summoning and rezzing past, or any other means) without risking a fat ban. Content which is roaming and can be avoided by waiting may be skipped. Specific instances include collecting groundspawns for MoTG, which *must* be done by killing the mobs guarding the growndspawns and cannot be done by flopping a monk around, and also Inner Prison, where none of the mobs are designed to be 'skippable' with the exception of the Farg drop-down which may bypass some content from the long way around. Exception: you may invis and run past mobs which do not see invisibility.

    Re: Violating raid cap rules (18-man raids, 12-man adepts, 6-man raid rules)
    Using a camped out healer to ressurrect your 18-man raid is against the raid rules. Doing so will get your raid leader and guild officers/leaders jailed and/or banned. (The same of course applies to a camped healer to resurrect your 6-man group in a zone which follows 6-man raid rules.)

    Out-of-Raid looting

    Rewarding loot to players who were camped out or otherwise disengaged during a fight is against the raid rules. Doing so will get your raid leader and guild officers/leaders jailed and/or banned, as well as the character who got loot. This extends to giving level 65 players looting rights from adept mobs. Note that this policy applies even if the raid is the correct size, IE an 18 man raid with one character camped out cannot give loot to the camped (or otherwise disengaged) character. If you want loot, you must be actively assisting the raid during the kill of the mob you want loot from, on the character you want loot on.

    This rule applies to normal targets as well; camping your alt while you duo a named so your alt can get 'pristine' droppables or 'no drop' items will get your items revoked and your player may be banned.

    **Actively helping means your character is there, with the rest of the raid, doing the raid thing with the raid target. In general, being on the target's aggro list is a fair clarification and being within the level range that allows you to loot the mob's corpse may be considered among other factors. There are some raid encounters in-game wherein the loot rewards are dropped from a lower level NPC box rather than the named mob. This does NOT mean that your level 1 Rabb the Rat alt is allowed loot from the box. The level of the raid mob itself is what is to be taken into consideration. To clarify this, Treasure Map chest higher than Simple can be looted by characters no lower than level 55.

    Re: 6-man zones, 'Raid Type Rules' and claimable 'wings'
    Seethis thread for a list of which raid zones are split into what wings and/or areas, and which are 6-man only zones. Note that 6-man zones follow the same 'raid type rules' which means using a 7th man in the zone for ANYTHING is a punishable offense, same as a 19th man in a raid zone.

    Re: Account Usership for non-original owners
    We do not keep track of your accounts. If two players who do not own an account dispute an account, it will be locked and nobody will have access until the original owner reclaims it. The Power of Attorney system is in place to help ensure that if you no longer have access to your original account email, you can set up a second, and if you have one player you want to have access, they can have valid 'legal' access.

    Re: Questions about why your name was nerfed
    See the Naming Policy Clarifications thread

    Re: Named Mob rights for groups clearing an area
    We don't recognize any camps in SoD, however we do recognize douchebaggery and we punish it. This one is as open-ended as your imagination can suggest. Don't be jerks. This includes (but is not limited to) the following behavior:

    Triggering content scripts which you have no intention of attempting just to screw over other players, collecting event-necessary groundspawns which you have no intention of using (Hi MOTG), using higher level characters than the area is designed for to monopolize an unreasonable amount of mobs for the size of your group when there are others looking to hunt in the same area, excessive leapfrogging, pulling a named after another group kills its placeholder multiple times, etc

    Re: Asking for ETAs on server downtime

    Whenever I give an ETA (usually because it's a quick patch) something goes wrong and it always takes 10 times longer than I gave. As a result I only ever give bogus ETAs (usually on the order of days). If I don't feel like giving a bogus ETA, I'll jail you. Moral of the story: Don't ask for ETAs.

    Re: Hedging your bets on the 3-boxing rule by claiming an LD character doesn't count
    It does. 2 characters in the game at any time, whether LD or not. You risk banning on your two highest level characters and jailing on a third if you violate this rule. (Or, if you give out your character's info as a buffer to someone else who might violate this rule. See the rule on account sharing.)

    Re: Can surnames be changed by staff?
    If it is inappropriate it will be removed and replaced with an "_" meaning you can't pick another anytime ever. (List of inappropriate surname rules here. Otherwise, petition, and someone will likely remove it so you can pick a new one. If this service is abused by player it will be removed. Either that or you'll get an underscore anyways.

    Selling no drop items
    It is not allowed to 'sell' loot rights to any no drop item, be it a quest item, raid loot, or ancient/relic/archaic turn-in pieces. (Hint: these items are no-drop for a reason; if we wanted you to sell them they would be droppable.) This includes payment in platinum, cash, items, etc. Violators risk banning, items gained this way will be revoked.

    Selling services such as leveling exp for in-game pp or paying for somebody in game pp or items to increase your set traps skill is currently allowed. If it is abused we will revoke this privilege.

    Thread last updated: Aug 23, 2017
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2011
  2. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I have a question regarding raid zones that require a key.

    Places such as ValorB, Outer Prison, CoD, etc require 1 keyed character to allow a raid in. I've been told that guilds are not allowed to kill targets in these zones unless two-thirds of the raid members present have their key. However I've been unable to find any official post or wiki entry that backs this up. Considering there have been pickup raids in these zones, I'm wondering what the justification for this rule is (if it exists). Could a full list of zones (or parts of zones) be posted where this rule applies?

    Thank you.
     
  3. lynnettell

    lynnettell Dalayan Elder

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  4. HandsofChaos

    HandsofChaos Dalayan Beginner

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    I am pretty confused. I was wondering if something could be cleared up for me. The only reference I can find relating to the situation is this...

    Re: Named Mob rights for groups clearing an area
    We don't recognize any camps in SoD, however we do recognize douchebaggery and we punish it. This one is as open-ended as your imagination can suggest. Don't be jerks. This includes (but is not limited to) the following behavior:

    Triggering content scripts which you have no intention of attempting just to screw over other players, collecting event-necessary groundspawns which you have no intention of using (Hi MOTG), using higher level characters than the area is designed for to monopolize an unreasonable amount of mobs for the size of your group when there are others looking to hunt in the same area, excessive leapfrogging, pulling a named after another group kills its placeholder multiple times, etc.

    From this I assume that a full group of players would win claim to an experience area over one person. Am I correct? And also, I would assume that if a player were to come near a group without conversing with the group to make an agreement of some sorts that person would be putting themselves at risk. Correct? In risk of being trained with mobs that are being pulled or other ways. Maybe AOE spells etc? I would hope a full group wins out over 1 person right?

    What confuses me is that from the staff's actions relating to an event of this sort I can only assume that one player can go anywhere he/she want to regardless if a group is farming the area or not. Without assuming any risk to themselves. Where does the line fall with regard to who is disrespecting who? If that one player gets trained or something by pure mistake is the group being disrespectful or is the one player being disrespectful by trying to complete for the same monsters in a area?

    Also, one more question please. It is stated here - http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=17780 - that petitioning someone for breaking these rules will normally be brought up with all staff online and decided upon a case by case basis. Has this rule been changed of late? I have tried to petition about someone breaking these rules only to have the petitioned dismissed over and over again. I tried to follow the instructions and make the petition "readable or more useful" to the staff and was issued a warning? The staff has reserved the right to selectively choose which issues to rule on and dismiss the others? It is possible for a player with a grievance to have no way to have that grievance heard? What I am saying is that it appears when a player really feels he/she has a valid point wouldn't that player be entitled a reply? Or is it intended that some grievances can be ignored? If so then so be it. However. from the wording it would appear that players are entitled to a reply? This is confusing. It is the only way listed to deal with any grievance with other players.
     
  5. Nwaij

    Nwaij Developer Staff Member

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    No. If a player solos/2boxes mobs that actually give him XP, there is no way a group has any more claims on these mobs then the one player. It's also not acceptable to pull mobs THROUGH another group/player, this is almost the definition of training. If you want mobs from past that player, have your group move up past him.

    Unless you are in a 6-man-raidzone, it's pretty much this. Allthough it's frowned upon to jump in and snipe a named ion an area where a group has been clearing for hours.

    If your petition gets deleted, it most of the time means that staff came to the conclussion that whatever you petitioned for is not petitionworthy. If you keep petitioning the same not petitionworthy thing time and again, staff might get upset with you and hand out a warning to stop doing it - nothing wrong with that. It's also not unusual that staff handles petitions w/o any form of reply.
     
  6. Blubuds

    Blubuds Dalayan Beginner

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    Re: Skipping Content
    ANY Mobs (raid or otherwise) which are static cannot be skipped (by training away, or CoTH summoning, corpse summoning and rezzing past, or any other means) without risking a fat ban. Content which is roaming and can be avoided by waiting may be skipped. Specific instances include collecting groundspawns for MoTG, which *must* be done by killing the mobs guarding the growndspawns and cannot be done by flopping a monk around, and also Inner Prison, where none of the mobs are designed to be 'skippable' with the exception of the Farg drop-down which may bypass some content from the long way around. Exception: you may invis and run past mobs which do not see invisibility.



    This is a question about Emberflow Recently I was there clearing our way in while another group had wiped Recently and was Flopping there way back to rez. As was a full wipe. They way I see this is content skipping if it was intended to be all skipped on way back it would have longer respawns so you could just run. Now they said it was wipe recovery, i can see a point of not wanted to clear it all again. But I in no way would think this was alright. So i'm posting here for a Ruling on this.
     
  7. Vartenaal

    Vartenaal Dalayan Beginner

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    this is something ive been hearing for quite a while and have seen irc quotes that say that thaz essences can be TRADED for other essences or GIVEN AWAY FREE of charge.

    couldn’t find an official post on forums, would just like an official statement from staff plz
     
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  8. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Ok, I would like some clarification regarding "selling no drop loot" and "selling exp"

    So, I often see groups where people say "come get exp with us, but we keep all the cash" First off, is this considered selling exp?

    Say this group is in kedge, the leader keeps all cash/droppable loot. If armor molds drop, are the other players allowed to loot them? Its obviously not the intention of the group to sell no drop gear, but in a somewhat indirect way this is being done.

    I would like to be able to invite others along to make exp/cash farming go more quickly, but if them ninjaing a no drop item puts me at risk, I wont do it any more.

    Now... if the above group is okay, what about when people actually request pay for an exp grind group? Ex: Highend monk/cleric go to EC and grind exp hard, with some low gear/AA 65s actually paying for the exp. Are these toons not allowed to loot any of the ears/quest items that drop due to the fact that they payed for the group?

    I'm wondering if a GM can clarify where exactly the line would be drawn in these types of situations.
     
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  9. Nwaij

    Nwaij Developer Staff Member

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    Selling NoDrop loot is never acceptable, selling XP for ingame money is.

    How loot/cash is distributed within a group is the business of the group and only of the group.

    See above.

    There is no such risk. In fact, back in the day when I was farming for my charm, I had 1-4 AFK toons sitting around with me leeching XP, and more then once it was a player toon of a GM.

    In my understanding this would be legal, althoug I'd consider it very rude from the high end not just to keep all the loot but also ask the others to pay for being grouped with him.
     
  10. Ikaa|LoveYums

    Ikaa|LoveYums Staff Emeritus

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    No, no transaction is taking place, so this can't even be called selling nothing. Just be sure to establish loot rules beforehand.

    Same as above.

    Whether or not it's your intention, it sounds like you are looking for loopholes in clarification which is why the lines are not drawn. Even if you aren't, someone will. What you are suggesting now is only a short step away from selling loot under the guise of selling xp, which, if the current staff determines that it has become a problem, will end in changing loot and xp codes to prevent both.
     
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  11. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I'm not looking for loopholes, I just want to make sure i dont break rules.

    I go to DN sometimes and let random people come and dps/loot armor (i keep coin, and endlessly search for a robe). I did my ooc one time and had about 10 people want to join, and when i said too many people, some said they'd donate to get in. I said cool, but then a friend told me that would be "selling no drop loot" and i could get banned. After reading this thread, i don't know if I'd be breaking rules or not. If a GM can clarify this issue that'd be great.

    Can someone donate/pay for an exp group, and then loot no drop stuff by chance (not as the intent of the group)? Should I just say no donations allowed? Should I just not let others join at all if I'm keeping coin?
     
  12. Nwaij

    Nwaij Developer Staff Member

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    Letting people in for XP is allways on the save side.
    Asking them for donations is legal, though some might consider it rude.
    Accepting money from them and letting em loot nodrop items might get you into trouble - better not to do this.

    I'd recommend to handle this on a strict 1st come 1st served basis, and no money involved at all.
     
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  13. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Yeah, thats what I'm gonna do unless a GM says something else here. Kind of lame when someone offers donation and I have to say 'sorry, but if you donate, you aren't allowed to loot any armor.'
     
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  14. ruach

    ruach Dalayan Beginner

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    regarding

    "Selling no drop items

    It is not allowed to 'sell' loot rights to any no drop item, be it a quest item, raid loot, or ancient/relic/archaic turn-in pieces. (Hint: these items are no-drop for a reason; if we wanted you to sell them they would be droppable.) This includes payment in platinum, cash, items, etc. Violators risk banning, items gained this way will be revoked.
    "


    Would it be against the rules for me to organize a pickup raid, achieve the objective of said raid(specifically defined by me as its organizer perhaps a quest drop or killing a quest mob), and then offer a "pp lotto" at the end of the raid for players who helped out to roll on?

    I would not be selling an item, since I would be giving money to the other players, the players receiving the money would in no way have control over the items, if for example loot rules ahead of time clearly stipulated all items of "x" type are distributed in "y" manner. additionally as it would be a pug raid there would not be a single guild or or group of players getting the money, furthermore the money would be distributed at randomly to, so no defined benefit could be assumed for any potential player.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
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  15. ruach

    ruach Dalayan Beginner

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    another thought,

    If 18 players choose to exp together, not targeting a specific raid target just killing trash for example, the leader of those players could clearly define the loot rules, and he could pay the other 17 members of the raid for helping him exp in the manner he sees fit?
     
  16. metvayne1

    metvayne1 Dalayan Beginner

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    that really sounds like circumventing the "no paying for loot rights" policy to me
     
  17. fuwok

    fuwok Dalayan Pious Diety

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    It presents an interesting situation.

    Is hiring people to participate in your raids tantamount to paying for loot rights? I thought that rule was to stop users from selling people raid slots.
     
  18. ruach

    ruach Dalayan Beginner

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    that was my understanding, too keep people from selling raid slots. I am just hiring someone to provide a service, such as a port, or buff, helping me level, or doing a craft combine
     
  19. ruach

    ruach Dalayan Beginner

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    right but it is my pug raid, i can assign the loot however i see fit, just like i can in an exp group, if i choose to be nice and give some pp to players whats the issue?

    the players are not selling me the loot rights, as it is my pug raid they have agreed ahead of time to let me manage loot as i see fit, and in the case i am curious about it would be useless for everyone else anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
  20. Syalara

    Syalara Dalayan Beginner

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    The original intent as has been said before was to prevent guilds from selling raid slots so people who were not able to obtain random_item_205 or spell_frag_02 could not effectively sidestep the no drop status on raid loots by paying for a slot in a raid.

    What you seem to be doing from what I see in ooc is buying a raidforce so you can obtain something you need. The payment is with either raid loot or plat, I believe you say so clearly when you /ooc this type of thing. Something along the lines of "those who do not need or get any loot will get plat" (paraphrasing obv).

    The difference is minor at best.

    I can not imagine a situation where it would be a big nono to sell a slot in a raid but a-ok to buy a raidforce.

    Sure, its your pug and you can determine how you distribute loot/cash BUT you are blatantly using the loot and cash as payment.

    Regardless of any wording of any current rule, I would find it difficult to believe what you are doing is within the spirit of how things are meant to be done. Possibly this type of behavior was unavoidable with the way some quests have been designed but it certainly leaves a sour taste in my mouth to see people buy raids and I do hope this type of issue is addressed either through better quest design or by some kind of ruling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010

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