Proposed Monk Changes

I maybe wrong duncan, but I think the shared CD on them is hard-coded to the client.

Really? I forgot. I guess they could get around this with the same method they did for Warriors.

The worst thing about monks (coming from someone relatively new to the game, at the time) was the long CD between special attacks. That and the fact that they were generally very un-special feeling. When I finally got Flying kick on my monk, I was joyous thinking it would be inspirational and awesome. What I got was a kick that missed alot and had a 20 second CD or whatever and didn't do as much damage as a single hit from my weapon.
 
Really? I forgot. I guess they could get around this with the same method they did for Warriors.

The worst thing about monks (coming from someone relatively new to the game, at the time) was the long CD between special attacks. That and the fact that they were generally very un-special feeling. When I finally got Flying kick on my monk, I was joyous thinking it would be inspirational and awesome. What I got was a kick that missed alot and had a 20 second CD or whatever and didn't do as much damage as a single hit from my weapon.

Yeah the special attacks can't really be altered that much unfortunately. It does get a little better at the higher end when you have a good haste item and empower/GoE but even with all that plus the class tomes to boost Flying Kick damage it still is only a fraction of the damage you're doing with autoattack.

Which makes me want to repeat how this is the perfect time to change the Force of Body tomes into something different.
 
Just to be absolutely 100% positive: The weight limit has been removed. No more "You are over your limit and will suffer reduced avoidance" or whatever message. However, going from 17 weight to 300 weight still drops my displayed AC by over 200. I want to be sure that this does not actually mean anything, is hardcoded into the client, and is not actually reducing my armor class. Thanks.

Edit- Slaar confirmed this ingame, AC reduction isn't real.
 
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Sorry for chainposting but here's some feedback after testing. Most importantly, I'm having a lot of fun with this change so far and it added some actual decision making and "skill" to the class, so thank you!

I did a pair of ~15 minute parses against a blue con non-humanoid that I can critical and cripple using the Round-Tiger-Flying DPS combo. In /s 2 with shaman buffs, empower, SV, werefrog, combine BP, I averaged 500-550 DPS spamming Flying Kick against this mob prior to today. The two parses today using the combo resulted in 655 and 684 DPS, so that's a decent increase. Considering how much more damage I take while using it, I would like to see a bit more of an increase, but we'll see how it goes I guess.

In both parses, I average a combo every ~15 seconds due to missing round kicks. Overall that's not too bad, but there are times where I miss several times in a row which can be a big deal if you're tanking or soloing. Out of 60 combos in the first parse, 11 took 2 round kicks to initiate and 5 took 3 round kicks. Out of 57 combos in the second parse, 9 took 2 round kicks, 5 took 3 round kicks, and 1 took 4 round kicks. It would be nice if you could change it so that combos don't require the first kick to land, or never took more than 2 attempts or something.

Other miscellaneous thoughts:

Slow Time is supposed to be a group buff I believe, but only lands on me.

Eagle Strike Combo (DD+stun) and Flying Eagle Strike Combo (Lifetap) both have 0 resist adjust and consequently get resisted a lot even against low blue cons.

The 3x Round Kick combo could possibly offer a bit more avoidance/mitigation or something. No lengthy parses on this one yet but I didn't take noticeably less damage with it running while tanking Kaesora.

Lengthening the window for each attack in a combo would be nice. In a group where mobs get pushed and moved around a bit, it's pretty common to hit an attack button right as a mob is moving which means your attack does nothing and often breaks your combo.

Also, Force of Body should really be changed to improve combos or something. It's worth less than 5 DPS per tome for me using the DPS rotation.
 
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I must have missed it in this thread, but are any changes being made to the special ability attached to attacks/Skill of Hand AA? Tail rake roots, so I could see that being annoying.
 
Was the innate 10% avoidance bonus removed? And was the 20% "in combat but not attacking" bonus added?
 
You only have to land the first round kick to start the combo, you can miss the other two specials and have it triggered.

if the first round kick hits the following 2 are automatic hits.

Also Slaariel mentioned, in passing, about changing Force of Body to maybe increasing accuracy of the abilities. Here's to hoping.
 
It's a problem at all levels though so only helping out the upper end monks might be an issue.
 
I doubt a level 40 monk with level-capped round kick has better accuracy than a 65 monk with capped round kick though, so why would they fare any better?
 
They shouldn't necessarily, but they also shouldn't go 30 seconds in combat without being able to initiate a combo.
 
this is a parse from earlier tonight in Kaesora. Everyone has the same buffs in this. DS is NOT included.

it is a combination of 150 mobs with, at least, me trying to keep my dps combo up at all times.

this is with horok and nz staff. with +20 1hb

Combined: A turned construct on 10/5/2012 in 2956sec

Total
--- DMG: 4061493 (100%) @ 1374 dps (1374 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 911259 @308dps

Fuwok
--- DMG: 1568671 (38.62%) @ 531 dps (531 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 650653 @220dps

Kiseble
--- DMG: 1355841 (33.38%) @ 459 dps (459 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 138433 @47dps

Senkou
--- DMG: 831756 (20.48%) @ 282 dps (281 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 49064 @17dps

Diashan + pets
--- DMG: 224013 (5.52%) @ 84 dps (76 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 15642 @6dps

Pokemon
--- DMG: 52778 (1.3%) @ 18 dps (18 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 37373 @13dps

Pacho
--- DMG: 28434 (0.7%) @ 12 dps (10 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20094 @9dps


Round Kick:
270 Attempts
45 Missed
16 Dodged
7 Parried
1 Riposted

% Hit total: 74.4%


now this is just one parse so far, but expect more from other exp zones and raids. so far though I feel as though I am putting a lot of work into trying to dps hard and getting little returns.
 
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That parse showing me at 282dps was also when I was merely autoattacking and mostly not using my combos. When I was paying attention and tryharding I would float around 350ish dps (parsed myself using Gamparse over 30-40 mobs, ignoring finishing blow)
 
now this is just one parse so far, but expect more from other exp zones and raids. so far though I feel as though I am putting a lot of work into trying to dps hard and getting little returns.

Same here. I averaged 630 DPS in a couple hours of BQ grinding today, Skos averaged 100 higher than me while not using a bird and while also boxing the tank. He and I are pretty similarly geared/tomed/etc and I know that other DPS classes parse where he was or higher. If Skos was focusing 100% on DPSing like I was, I'm sure his DPS would have been significantly higher.

I was also pulling aggro like mad. Skos was tanking with Zorr, and was casting two terrors on engage to establish aggro. I was feigning before completing my first and second combos (generally at ~80% and ~60% of the mob's hp) and pulled aggro before the mob died nearly every time. Feigning any more resulted in assistance penalties. Part of this is probably due to Tiger Claw having an innate chance to add extra aggro. Considering that my DPS combo causes me to take increased damage as well, pulling aggro like this is not acceptable. Over the course of the group, I took 148k damage and Zorr took 650k damage (Skos took 3845 damage).

Hopefully I can get some groups with other high tier DPS to compare further. It would also be nice to see how low and mid tier monks are faring compared to other classes at their gear level now so we can tell if it's still all monks that are lagging behind or just at the high end.
 
so my initial impressions are that the defensive one needs to last longer and have some sort of innate agro bonus built in, maybe like procs bonus or something i dunno.

the offensive one doesn't address issues very well and also should last longer.

both of the lifetap ones are great and my favorites so far.

I feel like the duration needs to be improved on the defensive offensive and group hastes for them to be desirable. The defensive one especially needs to be able to stay up all the time for it to be useful.
 
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