Question

[Rorne]

Wouldn't that lead to secondary healers and tanks having sub-standard gear? I guess it depends on how "needed upgrade" is defined.

Another issue is that not all players have a knack for being a main tank or main healer, I can see a little drama being stirred up by wipes because Petey the rogue can't seem to get a handle on playing a cleric. If you were to handle this by having someone skilled at it repeatedly playing the character they basically stop being bots.

 

[JarL]

Oh don't misinterpret me, the last thing we need is a 'uniform' SoDkP system. I'm just pointing out that unlike in WoW, there is a solid progression curve in SoD, that can't be skipped, and one could likely build a custom DKP system around it.

It really is old bashing WoW on any and every EQ forum, not to mention in game. You don't skip content in WoW. I enjoy both games, but holy shit is it tiresome coming on the EQ forums or logging in the game itself and not being able to go 5 minutes without someone bashing WoW. The game is much more difficult and progression oriented than any of you give it credit for.

EQ players need to grow the fuck up and get over the fact that games have progressed beyond Classic EQ.

 

[Noktar]

In my experience the reason a dkp system works better then a merrit system, is that a dkp system encourages people to play more. Thus creating a more hardcore guild that will raid more and although loot might not always go the the best suitable player more loot is distributed to counter this. So if you want to be a hardcore guild (read raid alot and have super active players) a DKP system works great. And if you want your guild to be less hardcore merrit will work great.

I was in GotW that used DKP and at some point it started to feel like work and decided never to do that again. Although we progressed pretty fast because of it.

 

[robopirateninja]

Yes, greed is allways there. But the problem isn't the greed per se. The problem arises when the loot council gets corrupted by greed (or whatever else reason). Thats is one of the major benefits of DKP: there is no room for corruption to occure.

You missed the point of what I said. If the goal of every individual raider is to get loot for themselves and this is backed up by a DKP system then the guild will be crippled compared to a guild who cares more about progression. In an ideal world they would be exactly the same. Let me know when we live in one.

 

[BeittilBonker]

It really is old bashing WoW on any and every EQ forum, not to mention in game. You don't skip content in WoW. I enjoy both games, but holy shit is it tiresome coming on the EQ forums or logging in the game itself and not being able to go 5 minutes without someone bashing WoW. The game is much more difficult and progression oriented than any of you give it credit for.

EQ players need to grow the fuck up and get over the fact that games have progressed beyond Classic EQ.

No offence buddy, but if you like to play WoW so much and are tired of us bashing it... (ps, i dont bash wow... i like wow, just never played it ) then what the hell are you doing here?

I think everything you wrote shows another issue I dislike with DKP: Over time it becomes riddled with exceptions and special cases. For example 2 boxing is very much a common reality on SoD. Are they separate characters? What if someone wants to bring an alt? What if someone has to drop to bring, say, another chanter for a particular fight, do they not get DKP now. Is there standby DKP? What about standby abuse? What about these new tomes the dev's are harping on about, how are we going to treat them? If we invite a guest do they get DKP? Will they be less likely to help if they have no chance at loot?

Its still really simple imho:
- a duo box gets its own DKP normally, but of course the ideal world would be just to have each person on the list with just one toon.

- bringing alts is something that can be done when you are after certain items where you know the rest would rot. it is up to the individual members really to decide amongst themselves which alt gets to be in. alts can take rots for free ofc. a really good example here is the farhag elders. if you are after a certain item for them, then you could allow people to bring pally/sk alts to pick up shields and axes getting an alt to the needed location is resposibility for the owner of said alt to. you either get him/her there in beforehand or you dont get in at all. not letting stuff rot is one thing, but were also not going to sit around on our asses staring at the walls.

- when you require somebody to drop for a certain fight because other classes are key then the dropped person would still get his DKP for the fight. pretty obvious really.

- guests & dkp? no, ofc not. imho you look at them like alts that can get rots for free

You missed the point of what I said. If the goal of every individual raider is to get loot for themselves and this is backed up by a DKP system then the guild will be crippled compared to a guild who cares more about progression. In an ideal world they would be exactly the same. Let me know when we live in one.

Well, apperently DKP can work for progression Maybe its just because in Exodus we have no need for stuff like relics, archiacs & thaz gems anymore. Because now it just about doesnt matter anymore who an item ends up with, we all get better out of it anyway.

 

[Cyzaine]

It really is old bashing WoW on any and every EQ forum, not to mention in game. You don't skip content in WoW. I enjoy both games, but holy shit is it tiresome coming on the EQ forums or logging in the game itself and not being able to go 5 minutes without someone bashing WoW. The game is much more difficult and progression oriented than any of you give it credit for.

EQ players need to grow the fuck up and get over the fact that games have progressed beyond Classic EQ.

I'd suggest you calm down. I'd argue that you DO skip content in WoW, because if your goal is progression, there is exactly ZERO reason to do ANY raid zone from vanilla or burning crusade. All that old content is essentially meaningless. The latest expansion was beat in 3 days, and back when BC was king a guild of players beat Illidan without doing any instance more than once. They simply needed the key and to move forward. So yeah, I think I have a bit of a point when I say SoD has a progression curve, and a game like WoW does not. Every expansion for that game is clearing the slate for everyone and resetting the line, so none of the previous work you did matters.

Did I like WoW? Ya, I already admitted it kept me entertained for about 2 years. Anyone whose played both games and looks at my raid encounters can probably find bits and pieces of influence if they try. But more important to me are the lessons the game taught me about the overwhelming feeling of entitlement that players in that game had in excess, the kind of thing that made the game into work, and guilds (particularly in the 40 man era) into ever burning balls of drama.

If you don't like people making comparisons to WoW, tell blizzard to make it less popular. But we are at a point in SoD where many many people have only that game to compare this one too; WoW was their first, not EQ.