School District Today, Violent Kids

X

Xardon

Dalayan Beginner
I know this can be a touchy subject, and I hope when people read this they have an open mind and understand everyone has their own opinions. Stating this from the start as I don't know what direction this thread could go....

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=167684

This is an article in my local area news site. The district I consult for has major problems with violence in their schools, and oddly enough it's mostly their middle schools. There have been many stabbings, knife fights, kids coming to school with guns/weapons. We've all seen this in the past, but I've seen it brewing to almost a critical mass lately. The district wanted to put in metal detectors ... public threw a fit. The district wanted to have two city officers in each school ... public threw a fit. The public just complains, and demands something be done, but they don't want to be a part of it. Now I'm not a parent, but I cannot understand for the life of me, why parents today don't seem to want to get involved with their kids education. Maybe it's time, maybe it's money. We're pretty much forced in to having a two income family today if we have/want kids. Is the lack of family support the issue? Is it the teachers? Is it the administration? Any school I walk through, elementary -> high school there are kids everywhere swearing left and right in the halls. If a teacher looks their direction, "What the f*** are you looking at?" I remember when I was in school, you even thought about swearing and you got detention. Well today detention doesn't exist, and as a matter of fact, most teachers in the district I am in don't even really teach anymore, they just try to babysit the kids and keep them quiet for the entire period. Two classrooms I was in fixing computer problems, the whole time the teacher was just telling them to be quiet. Another classroom she was reading Romeo and Juliet to herself because the rest of the class was just talking to each other. There is no more learning, no control. Another teacher was cornered in her classroom, spit on, put in a headlock, and threatened with a knife. She quit the next day, with nothing done but the kids who had the knife arrested and released since they were still minors.

My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?
 
Xardon said:
My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a lost cause, but I think the first step is holding the parents accountable. The educational institutions cannot operate with their hands tied, as you have witnessed.

Where my kids attend school, the discipline escalates according to the frequency and degree of the offense as follows:

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion

We also have a zero tolerance policy against weapons, alcohol and drugs. Any incidence of possession of either results in an immediate arrest.

A child who refuses to conduct themself in a civil manner should be the parents' problem or that of local law enforcement, not the school's.
 
Aneas said:
Xardon said:
My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a lost cause, but I think the first step is holding the parents accountable. The educational institutions cannot operate with their hands tied, as you have witnessed.

Where my kids attend school, the discipline escalates according to the frequency and degree of the offense as follows:

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion

We also have a zero tolerance policy against weapons, alcohol and drugs. Any incidence of possession of either results in an immediate arrest.

A child who refuses to conduct themself in a civil manner should be the parents' problem or that of local law enforcement, not the school's.
Click to expand...

Corporal Punishment WRU?
 
Low amperage, high voltage.

If thier eyes roll to the back of their skull, you may want to lower the amperage a tad.
 
JayelleNephilim said:
Tempus said:
Corporal Punishment WRU?
Click to expand...

Come to my house! We believe in it here (although my 2yo son still decides to paint my house with chocolate syrup).
Click to expand...
Same here. Trouble is that society has been Dr. Spockified. It only makes sense that if the schools aren't going to be allowed to dicipline the kids, then the parents should pick up that slack. Too many are against either happening, though.
 
Aneas said:
1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion
Click to expand...

Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc. Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with. Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.

It's getting pretty bad, the kids control the schools now, not the teachers. The teacher's can't even defend themselves anymore without some parent threatening a lawsuit.
 
Currently (at least in many parts of the USA) teachers are looked upon as surrogate parents with all the responsibility and none of the control.

Parents need to take responsibility. It's hard, it takes time, but it needs to be done. And the government should hold them so.

If it means that parents as well as chilrdren get harsh punishments for things like threatening violence, then good.
 
Xardon said:
Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc. Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with. Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.
Click to expand...

This is only because of the bad parenting. When I was in school, it wasn't the detention itself that was the deterrent, it was what the parents would do to you if you got detention. In the end, the school and teachers can't do anything about bad behavior if the parents don't do their part. Parents today either don't care enough, are just too lazy, or have way too permissive attitudes about parenting. :(
 
But what can a Public School District do to *try* to help make things better? I agree with everyone who said the parents have to help, but in this case, the public is blaming the school district. The district is taking a TON of heat because they district cannot say "Parents if you only did your job we wouldn't be in this mess" Of course the district realizes most of the problems stem from the family life, but they cannot change that. Is there *anything* at all, anyone could think of that the district could *try* to do to help make things better? There must be some way to help encourage saftey in schools, get the kids motivated, and get the parents involved in the school "community" (Which right now is pretty non-existent)

I've gone in to classrooms before and they high school kids were crazy, they were swearing at the teacher. The teacher had NO control at all. I was there to fix one of the PC's. While I was fixing it, one of the kids asked me what I was doing, I told him that the machine's video card had just fallen out of the AGP slot, and that's why nothing was being displayed when it was turned on. They started asking a bunch of PC and computer game questions, they asked if I played GTA, and what my favorite FPS was. Now the class they were taking was a basic level Autocad course, most of the kids though did not seem to care. I explained a little about the history of games that I grew up with, and how graphic design is a very important and growing field. When I was explaining everything to them I was relating it to games they like to play, like Doom 3, GTA, etc. The kids responded and asked if their classes really even help towards that, and I told them yes because it gives them a baseline to start from. I told them it's a lot like a video game, take an FPS for example, you always only start out with a knife, lead pipe, or little hand gun. As you play the game you work your way up to the BFG's and Plasma Rifles. Because they were able to understand that analogy based on their gaming experience, they became a little more motivated to learn. The teacher a few days later e-mailed me to thank me and asked how I did it ... it was quite simple to me because I am a gamer, but I was able to relate to them on their level. Most younger teachers I have found can do this well, but not every teacher can relate to the majority of the kids today.
 
Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings. In Europe, nobody ever cares to write about teenagers unless they're immigrants or some other fringe group.
 
zodium said:
Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings. In Europe, nobody ever cares to write about teenagers unless they're immigrants or some other fringe group.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine married a girl from Sweden, and she told me that there they have to take a test around 8th grade or so in order to continue their education, if they fail it the get booted and have to either do nothing, acquire a tradeskill, or join the military. Again I don't know the details of it, but that is how it was explained to me, maybe someone from over there could explain it better for me? But from how it was explained to me it sounded like a good way to go.
 
JayelleNephilim said:
zodium said:
Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings.
Click to expand...

:brow:
Click to expand...

Well really. I hear tons of news stories about those horrible teenagers in the US that are apparently worthy of national mention, but never any about Europe and much less about Denmark, not even any local stories.
 
It makes me sad that this is the case. :( *moves with her kids to Denmark* :p
Sadly, the majority of the horror stories I hear are those of the inner cities, and of other poor neighborhoods.
 
How about installing a restrictive weapon law, finally? But that seems to be a holy cow.
Sure, that wouldn't help against agression and violence, but a agressive kid with fists or with a gun makes a difference, somehow :roll:
 
What if a computer video gaming after school program was created ... anyone think that might work? Let the kids take out their anger/aggression virtually? I doubt the school district would endorse something like that, but you, keep kids off the streets, they have fun, and let out anger/frustration through video games. Most of us do this now as it is, why wouldn't it work for them I say. And if it is a good idea, how to approach the subject to the district in a way they would look at it in a positive light, and prevent them from just going "video games are bad"
 
I think there are too many people out there (NOT including myself) who blame violent children on tv/video game violence for that to be well accepted. If you take your computer experience as an example, some kind of constructive program where they can do something that interests them might be better. For example, an after school program where they could experiment with computer graphics, and the fundamentals of creating a computer game would be better received (and more useful to the kids) than just playing games. (Just think, a whole team creating content for Wiz! =P) Of course, this is only going to be of interest to a subset of the kids, so you'd have to have other programs for other interests. Which leads to the problem of funding and volunteers if you're going to try to help all types of kids. :(

One of my neighbor's kids is involved with a robot building club through school. They got funding from several businesses (to encourage kids to explore engineering). They spend X months building a robot together, then take it to competitions. It has really helped him channel his energy constructively.
 
Where have some of the best games come from most times? Look at SoD? Haven't some of the best games we've played been mods of other games? If you expose kids to playing games, and they develop it from there in to concepts, designs, mods ... they could develop something on their own, with support from people who put it together for them. Maybe games can be the link to the kids, if they play games they enjoy, and use their imagination to mod them it could break the barrier. Again it's just a thought ... but with the explosion in the gaming industry, everyone plays games just about, even if it's the online Yahoo game during a lunch break.
 
Xardon said:
Aneas said:
1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion
Click to expand...

Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc.
Click to expand...
Next step: suspension, unless law enforcement needs to become involved, that is.

Xardon said:
Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with.
Click to expand...
Sadly, many view it that way, true. Don't lose sight of the fact that whether or not the student is happy with being suspended is irrelevant. The important thing is putting a stop to their disruptive behavior in school. However, in many cases, suspension is enough to get the parents to finally step up and deal with the kid, especially when they're forced to spring for the high tuition costs of a halfway school.

Xardon said:
Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.
Click to expand...
Sure you can. You can expel everyone who needs it. Honestly though, the actual number that would require expulsion would be fairly low once diciplinary procedures are enforced on a regular basis.

Xardon said:
It's getting pretty bad, the kids control the schools now, not the teachers. The teacher's can't even defend themselves anymore without some parent threatening a lawsuit.
Click to expand...
No doubt. That is perhaps the biggest part of the problem. We can't give that authority back to the teachers due to those few who would abuse it and those many parents who just can't stand the thought that their child might just need a method of dicipline that they are too weak to administer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom