Smoothing Caster DPS

Discussion in 'Balancing Discussion' started by Zaela, Mar 11, 2012.

?

Should we abandon the new resist system?

  1. Yes, bring back the old all-or-nothing resists.

    24 vote(s)
    28.2%
  2. No, keep the damage scaling.

    61 vote(s)
    71.8%
  1. moona2

    moona2 Dalayan Beginner

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    Can forum moderators track who's voting? Because it appears you can vote multiple times using different accounts.
    (I voted for the new damage scaling system by the way)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  2. Animand

    Animand Dalayan Elder

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    Yes, they can.
     
  3. Zaela

    Zaela _

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    More opposition than I expected.

    All things being equal I kinda wanna try going back to the old system but also bumping up the minimum resist chance from ~0.3% to 10% and increasing spell damage by 10% at the same time. Preserves that sweet sweet unpredictability better without any of the problems of the new system.
     
  4. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Please no
     
  5. jakewiz

    jakewiz Dalayan Beginner

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    Oh yes please go back to the old system. I've gotten on my other casters and their damage is decreased considerably as well
     
  6. Cambrai

    Cambrai Dalayan Adventurer

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    I voted to go back to the old system for a few reasons. The main one is a number of encounters (especially some 6 man stuff my group has been doing lately) have certainly gotten tougher. Stuff like lifetaps always going through causing bad things to happen and being blind now half the fight because an aoe gets through. Plus after wiping a number of times to the named tree in Shadowdale, getting a hint from a much higher tier person saying "Oh that guy probably won't be killable with the new spell resists" does give me much confidence. Now on that one, we are still working on the strat so it could of been bogus info, but I have no reason not to trust the source. I'm worried another Thaz will happen where I am still waiting for SK gems and essences to be put back in the game so I can get my Vah sword. I'm sorry to say I don't have a lot of faith that things will be tuned to bring some encounters back to the difficultly for on tier folk.

    The change just seemed very patchwork too. This is a dd/dot, use the new code... oh the person if FD, use the old code... umm he's not FD but the dd has an effect like stun so back to the old code. It seems like a change that was meant to affect all spells but then as things got looked into it kept on getting trimmed down and down. I still don't really see the point. To me the old way worked fine. Switching to a new system that pretty much doesn't change the dps output of the toon/mob but does affect a number of encounters doesn't seem productive.

    One positive thing I think it did was bring up druids in the healing arena. Groups getting constant damage from aoes now is the perfect situation for druids and their hots. At least for one mob in Shadowdale that rains down aoes like no tomorrow, we have had a lot more success with a druid healing than a cleric since a lot of cleric mana is lost ghealing only moderate group damage to get them back up to strength for the next aoe while the druid just ghots and then able to stay on the tank.

    I could live with the NPCs using the old system and PCs using the new so they don't have to see resist messages.
     
  7. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    It seems like (almost) all the problems are associated with AEs mobs do towards players with components of stun/blind/fear/etc that hit now when they used to not.

    What if the change only effects PC spells against NPCs, and we retain the old system for NPC spells used on PCs?
     
  8. Zaela

    Zaela _

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    Anything with a duration or a stun is already excluded against players, including DoTs. Pure DDs are the only thing that should be getting through every time now.

    But seeing as having NPCs do one thing and players do another would be exactly the same inconsistency which is being complained about, I vote we revert and make resists more common all around like I said.
     
  9. cian2

    cian2 Dalayan Master

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    I like the current system, but I'm not opposed to going back. I'm actually kind of surprised that people in the t7-9 range are complaining. In the old system, some classes just flat out cannot do some things (wizards in emberflow, for example) and this change makes them usable again. This benefits that range of player the most, yet they seem to be the ones against it. Odd.
     
  10. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Im a big fan of the change, but it really doesnt fix the problems tot/ef give wizards and mages.

    Doing 50% damage constantly or getting 50% of your spells resisted both majorly suck.

    At least the change makes the dps reduction more predictable and an unlucky string of resists wont wipe you.
     
  11. robots

    robots Dalayan Beginner

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    Holy crap I brainwashed Zaela :O
     
  12. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Post a parse that shows this? Because eye-balling it is shit and not an adequate method of determining whether or not your damage has actually gone up or down or changed at all.
     
  13. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I guess the current rule is that we are not adding any new class tomes to the game... but seeing as this one was in the game before and many people put many hours of exp into filling it not to mention time/money spent to attain it... any chance it can be changed to something useful? I suggested a few ideas in this thread, and the other wizard tome thread, here is another:

    Touch of the Void:
    Each rank of this tome gives the wizard a chance to proc Relic: Lure of the Void when casting damaging spells.(.5/1/1.5/2%/100mana)
     
  14. Zaela

    Zaela _

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    It will be useful again when we switch back to the old system, no?
     
  15. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    72% of the server like the new system

    I'm sure that number would go a lot higher if it only affected PC spells (or just once all the stun/blind/etc issues get ironed out)

    I hope you're just trolling.
     
  16. robots

    robots Dalayan Beginner

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    Meh that poll is more about who can be bothered logging in all their accounts. What's the plan now Zaela? Are you really going to increase the base resist and damage? That could be interesting.
     
  17. Zaela

    Zaela _

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    Again, they have been ironed out for a week now. I don't think that is the meat of the complaint.

    At least part of the idea was to make resists more valuable against encounters with AEs and spells with extremely low resist rates. I'm not sure that there's anything about the rest of it that would make me happy to just abandon that so easily.

    And again, the bigger complaint from higher-up players seems to be about the inconsistency. I did not like the inconsistency myself when it was just about FD. It could not get more inconsistent then having one system for players against NPCs and a different system for NPCs against players. It's all or nothing, and since we can't acceptably do all we'll just have to go with nothing.

    Plus the players vs NPCs use of the system is no more acceptable than the reverse anyway. Lower-end players, fighting things that by and large have extremely standard, low resist values, don't like having their damage scaled. And there isn't any reason why they should: their fights are quick, they have no interest in their average DPS. They aren't going to run parsers and carefully tabulate all their numbers waiting for any opportunity to complain about their class compared to other classes; they just want to kill things. Nothing more. And wasting mana on resists occasionally is preferable to wasting mana every time, the scaling of their damage basically assuming that they would have been resisted at least once no matter what when in fact that is not necessarily the case.

    Not trolling.
     
  18. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    It still seems that a majority of players like the new system. Looking back through the thread, many of the complaints were about AEs with weird components, and even if that was fixed by the time the poll was made, the fix is not obvious until people go back and try encounters again, so I'd bet a lot of people voted still assuming that stuff wasn't fixed.
     
  19. Silosobi

    Silosobi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    How did you come to this conclusion? If anything, I think the new system would provide even more benefit for low tier players where each and every spell makes a difference.

    When I was a nub, and a mob was at 1% while i was at 10% and I turned to cast one last nuke with my last bit of mana and... it resists... that is the most infuriating thing ever. You then either die or run around for 5 minutes with no JB, no sow, no FT, until you finally have mana for another nuke.
     
  20. Zaela

    Zaela _

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    That is the impression I got from that one person in this thread and also people in ooc and also reasoning. Sure, sometimes they'll lose the random numbers game, but they don't seem to mind as long as they win more often than they lose. With the scaling, they lose every time.
     

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