the state of things

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Cinn

Banned Jerk
I don't play this game much anymore. I log on to kill a few mobs with friends every once in a while. Chat in vent. Hang out in IRC. Help random people with random questions. I'm done playing seriously, but I'm still a casual member of the community.

When I started on this server back in Winter's Roar the game was a lot different. Everything was different really. From the zones, to the mechanics to the content to the staff. The game felt new, and was new to me. You had a small group of people, who cared, passionately, about a little emulator project they were working on. As a player back then you could tell.

The community was smaller. There were lots of bugs, but there was also lots of fun. I enjoyed the time I've spent here. I particularly enjoy the time I spent just starting out. Things were different back then, but they were fun.

There's been lots of changes since there. Lots of class tweaks. Lots of content additions. Complete overhauls to the game. Most of these are wonderful. In-fact almost all of these are wonderful additions to the game. Sure, some of them might not have turned out how we initially intended. There were unforseen balance issues with the additions of tomes. The drastic spike in character strength. The way keyed zones operated and were enforced. Lots of little things had to be altered to accommodate for growth and change.

Nothing inherently wrong with that. Just what had to happen for the server to progress.

Like I said, I don't play much anymore, and I don't intend to ever fully come back, but I'm still an active member of the community. And for the most part it's a good community. The staff has done a decent job of preserving this. That atmosphere of a small group of friends that stretched the entire server across zones and guilds.

There's been a lot of talk about the current staff recently. About the way things are ran now. The way problems are handled. The way that issues and disputes are dealt with and the severity of punishments.

People go overboard with their hate and frustration, claiming blatant staff incompetence. A lack of understanding of "their" game. That the current staff is completely and totally out of tune with the needs of the server.

It's silly really. Sure, there are always issues that some players will be more familiar with than certain staff members, but people act as if some of these current changes are malicious or something. I assure you, having seen and been present for almost all of these changes, and having played and experienced content and revisions done by every dev to have worked on this server, it just isn't the case.

What I would ask is that if the dev team makes changes. At the very least publicly announce things. It's just common courtesy to the playerbase.

There has however also been a drastic change in the way GM's handle situations. As the server has grown and as more problems have arisen the GM staff over the years has felt the need to hard code a variety of rules into their books. Where once situations were dealt with on a case by case basis, with flexibility given to the GM and a fair amount of room for common sense and decency to be given to a situation or petition there is now an iron fist of nerdlaw.

These changes to policy are not unfounded. There is certainly benefits to having clear cut rules with no room for personal feeling, input, reasoning or intent. Petitions can now be handled with the all the swiftness and care of a robotic arm capping bottles. Accounts can be guest locked with iron bars. This certainly makes things easier. Leaves little room for blame or dispute. The rules are written on the wall, plainly visible to all. Stray from the lettering and be stricken down.

The problem with this is that it removes that feeling of care and compassion that players used to feel for the staff and the GM's who helped them enjoy this server. There used to be a feeling of well, everyone was in it together. If there was something that bugged in the client. If the server, that was and is constantly under repair and construction, misbehaved or glitched, items or progression would be restored. Handled on a case by case basis.

When someone loses an item, loses a mob, loses progress in a zone because of server malfunction or circumstances out of their control such as account theft or any number of reasons, the player feels slighted. Anyone would. When a GM can swoop in and save the day, and in turn make the server a more welcoming and inviting place, a more enjoyable place, why shoudln't they?

Well, because if they do chances are they are breaking one of the thousand rules written on the wall or in their handbook. Which in turn calls for more punishments dictated by more rules and more grief and misery for both players and staff.

What I'm trying to say here is things used to be different. Situations, all situations, were handled or tried to be handled on a case by case basis, with thought given to all circumstances and common decency was applied. Things were better then.

If we could take a step back I think the entire server could benefit from more leniency. Rules are great, they keep and maintain order and preserve the server that we've all contributed to building and maintaining over the years. When these rules start disregarding common sense or when situations could be resolved with smiling faces on both sides of the fence, why are we taking the easy way out and letting a million rules dictate rulings when simple common sense and politeness could be substituted. When players could come away with happy faces and the confidence that the staff truly cares about their enjoyment of the game, why let iron clad policy dictate staff decisions.

The staff aren't stupid. They care about the game. Give them the freedoms they once had to handle situations on a case by case basis. Give them some breathing room for their decisions, and trust. trust. that they will do the right thing. Because I'm sure that's their intentions.

I don't know. Just something to think about from a player who's been around a while.
 
I agree with most of what you say but "an iron fist of nerdlaw" just sounds too cool to give up man.
 
q.f.t.

rules>reason/compassion is basically what ruined my guild, fun, etc and why I don't log on anymore.
 
Well said.

Case-in-point: just because the rulebook says that some indiscretion is a "bannable offense" doesn't mean you have to ban people for the offense. 30 days in PoJ would give people plenty of time to think about their shameful misdeeds, while allowing active players to eventually return to the game.
 
This post represents a real sore spot for members of Chaotic Winds. We were forced to rebuild our entire raid force as a result of our players being banned and/or quitting the game as a result of SoD policies and GM interventions. We're finally returning to form as a guild, but we continue to see ridiculous bannings involving CW and non-CW toons, and it really crushes our morale to continue activity on this server.
 
So, you're saying the problem is that the GM Team doesn't broadcast every time they're lenient, forgiving, or understanding?

I mean, I get that there was a situation where we said "no, you deleted that thing and are lying about how you lost it, and you're not getting it back" and that 4 boxer running macroquest and that 3 boxer with the nasty e-mails to staff. I get that those rulings are viewed as "iron fist" and "mean and unforgiving" and "robotic and cold", but you're bitching about the less-common situations we don't give in.

I get it, you genuinely believe a mod rod ate that item because the person claimed it did. You didn't know the 4boxer was running macroquest and grouped with my cleric and was bragging about it in group chat. You don't see the e-mails I got from that 3-boxer. You're just trying to discourage other people from playing. Please stop that.
 
So, you're saying the problem is that the GM Team doesn't broadcast every time they're lenient, forgiving, or understanding?

I mean, I get that there was a situation where we said "no, you deleted that thing and are lying about how you lost it, and you're not getting it back" and that 4 boxer running macroquest and that 3 boxer with the nasty e-mails to staff. I get that those rulings are viewed as "iron fist" and "mean and unforgiving" and "robotic and cold", but you're bitching about the less-common situations we don't give in.

I get it, you genuinely believe a mod rod ate that item because the person claimed it did. You didn't know the 4boxer was running macroquest and grouped with my cleric and was bragging about it in group chat. You don't see the e-mails I got from that 3-boxer. You're just trying to discourage other people from playing. Please stop that.

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You're just trying to discourage other people from playing. Please stop that.

Maybe we're trying to have a conversation with the GM staff since the GM staff don't respond to PMs on the subject.

Maybe we're trying to have a conversation in hopes that staff would even have a clue what we're talking about, without getting into specific accusations which puts them into a corner where they feel attacked personally.

No one here has accused the staff of trying to discourage players from playing - I think that was the point of the OP. Would appreciate it if you would stop accusing us of it since you're obviously already in defensive mode.
 
About 3 months ago after taking a 8 month or so break from SoD, I came back and rolled an alt. Once I got him to 55 I decided I was going to put a ToLL on him and grind out some AA's since for some reason I really enjoy doing that! I went to the unbinder, and having forgot how it worked handed the NPC the 4.7k it took to unbind the ToLL, and then did the /cm d prompt which took another 4.7k from my char!

I messed up.

Not wanting to loose the 4.7k I sent in a petition hoping that I could be reimbursed for my money despite that the rule of thumb is that if you mess up resulting in item loss and it is your own fault, you don't get it back. (I lost 6/8 quest pieces for the elds mantle back in the day upgrading the bag for the side quest in undercaverns and was told this, I did not get the pieces back.)

A gm responded to me shortly, told me to be more careful, and gave me my money back.

It was a great day. Forgot why I posted this but hell, why not.
 
You're just trying to discourage other people from playing. Please stop that.

I don't think he is discouraging anyone at all. He is just pointing out realistic things, and saying what most people feel. It sucks to see this server take a turn for the worse, and we as a community want to point out the bad things. I agree with Cinn. And believe me people are already discouraged to play, and continue playing...
 
I feel that the problem in most player/volunteer modded communities is that the mods end up erecting this little clique of secrecy and elitism that is very hard to penetrate. Therefore the rest of the player base ends up banding together in this us vs them mentality. I know this is the case for a lot of the more contradictory bannings where you have these people like Arcibu and Draeos who do tons of terrible things (truthfully or allegedly) but because they formed these close bonds with players against the unknown and seemingly unfriendly mods players take their side rather than looking at things objectively.

Personally when I read that 3boxers posts I was like "wow did he really get banned for that what a load of bullshit". But now that you are saying, "He sent us a bunch of shitty emails and was a jerk." I am not so surprised. But what you need to do is come right out and communicate that. I honestly have good faith in the GM team and the Dev team, most of the time, and don't think you guys are the type of people to make up a reason to ban some lowly noob out of malice.
 
I feel that the problem in most player/volunteer modded communities is that the mods end up erecting this little clique of secrecy and elitism that is very hard to penetrate. Therefore the rest of the player base ends up banding together in this us vs them mentality. I know this is the case for a lot of the more contradictory bannings where you have these people like Arcibu and Draeos who do tons of terrible things (truthfully or allegedly) but because they formed these close bonds with players against the unknown and seemingly unfriendly mods players take their side rather than looking at things objectively.

I think that's a big part of it. In Arci's case (and the case of other CW toons recently), a toon was banned for reasons which had nothing to do with hacking or blatant cheating, which IMO are just about the only time that banning is the most appropriate action to take. Tao also left no option regarding an appeals process in Arci's case, which leaves all of us frustrated and with a sense that the rules and enforcers of said rules are unfair.

I know that Tao and other staff members are sensitive to criticism, and I probably would be too if I was in that position. But players have no power, and we're sensitive to being jailed/banned without receiving a PM or warning ahead of time, which happens a lot. It happened to me once upon a time when a GM became convinced that the warping from my Rustplanter was actually caused by a hacking program. It happened to a whole group of CW members a few months back when they were racing a Goon Squad group to an elab chest. It happens a lot, and a lot of bad feelings could be avoided entirely if GMs would simply communicate with players before proceeding with banning or jailing.

You don't see the e-mails I got from that 3-boxer.

Real question, Tao: did you communicate with this dude before banning him? Or did you ban him, expect him to figure out what happened on his own, and then email you without being the slightest bit perturbed by what he probably felt was a completely unnecessary action against him? Because when I got banned without having a clue why, it was real tough to keep my cool and nicely ask for a GM to look into and correct another GM's completely avoidable cockup.

Whatever Eisley was actually guilty of, do you really think he would have continued doing it if someone would have said, "if you do that again, you're getting banned?" I doubt it, and neither would a lot of these other people who get banned and jailed without notice, because they'd rather play the game than break whatever rule they were breaking. And everyone would be a whole lot happier: the player who didn't get banned, that player's guild because they would still have their friend, and the GMs who wouldn't have to deal with all of us whining about it and growing ever-more paranoid about the direction of the server.
 
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