The sub level 50(lv 60?) levels are desolate

Discussion in 'SoD Discussion' started by fuwok, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. fuwok

    fuwok Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I wanted to open up some discussion into a controversial concept: maybe starting new players at a higher level.
    A couple of days ago, I created an untwinked cleric to see what leveling up was like since the last time I leveled up was in 1945, shortly after the cessation of hostilities with Nwaij.

    So far, (lv 23), I have run into only one opportunity to group with anybody else and they didn't want to group with me. I have made my way mostly by clumsy soloing and through the charity of high end xp groups allowing me to leech off of their xp. It's nice to level up, but this experience is very little fun, and the only way I can keep going doing it is because I know that there is the 65 experience waiting at the end.

    If you are a new player, and faced with this mountain of leveling alone, I don't know how you're supposed to do it. Yes, the quests are better than ever and there are more newbie things to do, but you are doing them all alone, or with a box (which would have been a good idea in retrospect but alas). I don't like boxing anyway and trouble with zoning made me decide not to at the time.

    My proposal? An option to start newer players at a higher level. Level 50 maybe? lv 55?

    Would starting at a higher level trivialize a lot of lower level content? Sure. But effectively this content can't be done on tier anyway because there is nobody to do it with. :'(
     
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  2. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    The lack of / frequency of promotion on this server is down right terrible and makes it quite hard on anyone who starts a new and basically starts them off at a HUGE disadvantage. While i do not agree with your request at starting at 50 - 55 I do agree that something has to be done to entice players to stick around / group.

    please please please please the next time you do the account drive give some form of incentive to those who re-roll characters so the newbies stick around longer than a day after it ends.

    also - promote full group game play. give some form of a bonus for full groups vs non full groups. make it worth wild to bring someone to the party than roll out with 4
     
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  3. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I literally just saw a commercial for some new War Craft expansion, and it allows players to jump to level 90 (whatever that means.) I think on live you can start at x level too, or maybe it was a promo... I'm guessing they have the same problems we have...

    I think new people will miss a lot of the game and not develop skills as easily if they jump levels, but after watching fuwok and some of the other re-new goons leveling... I see a giant mountain of non-social no fun for new guys.

    The idea of shrouds (from live) could make it so dudes can shroud up in level to xp with 65s... Even mercs could help.

    edit - Live had this same type of problem. The attempts at solving the problem started with shrouds, then mercs, then xp mods... Maybe we should see what is working there, since they are still in business, and emulate that... Why totally reinvent the wheel, when someone was already paid to make the wheel in the first place...
     
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  4. Ludovician

    Ludovician Dalayan Elder

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    (sarcasm on)No way we can't let everyone make a free buff bot army of level 55s that would break the game.(sarcasm off)




    Seriously though, Fuwok is right the low levels are a lonely nightmare and nothing but a time sink to catch up to the community so people will play with you. Starting at level 55 wouldn't hurt anything. The player will still have to overcome a huge gear / skill disadvantage (unless skills are leveled up to?)

    I think it'd be worth a trial...
    -maybe a limited time only thing during the next account drive.
    -maybe just one character per person
    -maybe limited to new players only

    It could be controlled and it could be a beneficial for sure.

    Any established player can make a twink 55 in a week or less anyhow.
     
  5. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Most MMOs I've played have some sort of mechanic that makes new players not have such a struggle once the population gets so top-heavy. This server would definitely benefit from something to help with this, either through an optional higher starting level or something else.

    I think something like mercenaries plus an accelerated leveling curve would be better than just starting at a higher level. That would make gaining skills and spells a lot smoother as well as still letting people do adepts and quests at the appropriate level, plus not punish people so much for not boxing.
     
  6. fuwok

    fuwok Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Even if skills increased much faster (combat/casting skills). The only purpose they serve is to punish powerlevelers and powerleveling is all you can get done at these levels.

    Well, that, or duoing alone for 50 levels.
     
  7. Ulandx

    Ulandx Dalayan Elder

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    Lets start with Cleric mercenaries as on live ...
     
  8. fxattack

    fxattack Dalayan Elder

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    What if level 65+ players were able to earn large amounts of cash credit toward a charm for temporarily de-leveling and grouping with someone in a low level zone that they haven't visited for a few thousand hours? Extra credit for taking down an adept? If not, there should just be bots.
     
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  9. noteisley

    noteisley Dalayan Adventurer

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    Cesspits was kind of the starting point of this idea, but it was not a favorable choice amongst the powers that be. Obviously, it ends there. I wanted to funnel new players through hot spots and hopefully spit them out with a friend or 2 and some t2-3 gear. I dont really haave any comment other than I do not believe that this is the vision for the game. I soloed 1-65 in 2006 but that's because I dont like people
     
  10. donfolstar3

    donfolstar3 Dalayan Master

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    Instant 55, yes! Limited to one per account if possible. People can always go back and check out the earlier content later if they want to. If they do not want to maybe that content isn't very good and needs to be revisited. Shrouds would be a way better solution but I doubt that is currently possible and not even sure about 2.5 if/when that happens.

    CRAZY IDEA FEW WILL LIKE: Create the ability to Highlander other characters for some amount of xp scaled to level of the beheaded. Then leveling up characters and repopulating all of those empty zones sub 65 still comes with a tangible benefit so maybe people would do it to help newbs or for fun or whatever. Maybe you yearn to go back to Blackburrow and relive your glory days but it serves no purpose to do so without the ability to Highlander that xp back to your main when you are done. Bonus: the excess of old characters floating around would thin out. That of course might create controversy so some priest NPC who can reattach the sac'd characters head for like 100k would add a whole other level to this stuff.

    Full group xp bonus, why isn't this a thing? Give people incentive to play together. MMO.

    Higher xp rates in general would be a huge boon to this server. Making shit feel grindy is great when you're trying to collect all them subscription dollars but kind of stupid and pointless and dickish on a ftp game.
     
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  11. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I can't seem to think of a benefit to limiting 1 time per account since accounts are free and people can make as many as they want. Am I right, or am I missing something?
     
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  12. Vitali

    Vitali Dalayan Master

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    I only have 1 character per account anyway, I imagine most are that way too
     
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  13. Vitali

    Vitali Dalayan Master

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    I don't see why lvl 1-65 can't get like a 1000% boost. Going from 1 to 65 in a day or two of just grouping or duoing doesn't sound terrible tbh. Of course the boost shouldn't apply to AA pre 65 (or maybe it should, idk). Make spells from vendors 1-60 cost less (as opposed to making mobs drop more money, which could make things bad) and skills raise 100-500% faster up to 60 (combat and casting).

    Numbers may appear huge, and lets be real they are, but the experience from 1 to 65 isn't even something that is fun or reminisced about... It's always looked back on as awful and not fun because it was almost always alone.
     
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  14. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    On live it was really something to remember. Here, the top end is so heavy and deep with content that not enough dudes recycle to new characters.
     
  15. Haenir

    Haenir Developer

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    Here's my perspective as a non-boxed rogue:

    From 1 - 52 I grouped for exp twice, and for adepts 4 times. I remember hitting lvl 50 with something like 60 skill in backstab because of this. Of course, my defensive skills were all maxed. About 1/2 of my exp came from quests. I didn't really have much trouble finding places to solo as a rogue -- this is probably more because I went out and explored a lot with hide/sneak, I imagine any class with invisibility also will have an easy time. Some classes are plain harder to solo with (Cleric) and I'm not sure if that is a problem. *shrug*

    NPC spell augurs are awesome. I always went out with full shammy buffs. So are NPC healers -- the druid ring in Heartlands reduced my downtime to almost zero when I was fighting in that zone.

    When I was leveling, most of the time I actually felt like I was leveling too fast. For example, I out-leveled the mobs dropping stuff for my newbie armor quest well before I ever finished that armor. There were a number of adepts I chose not to xp lock and wait at, both because of the low population and because it felt like it I was missing so much exp from quests (which doesn't go toward gear xp).

    Pretty much all of the people I grouped with were twinks of higher level toons, and within a week they were usually well past my level -- so I never really got to repeat play with anyone. Having hit 55 now, things are a little bit better (I've actually had repeat play with some folk!), but overall I'm spending most of my time solo (and really there are a lot of things progression wise I can do solo - especially since I consider improving the wiki/my maps as a type of progression).

    On the gear side of things I felt like I ended up purchasing cheap BoE's that trivialized items from relatively harder to do quests/adepts. I've also had a number of situations where early gear ends up more effective than later gear --- e.g. the finished Underhill Lamp Gem I acquired at level 4 is better for my dps than the NP Ring IV which I just got at 52 (true the NP Ring is slightly better for hp/resists [how do you compare +regen and +hp?] - but it seems like that lamp gem is either OP or the NP rings I-IV should get a bump).

    Something I've noticed is that sometimes I'll be LFG and then another person asks for leech, and they get invited. What the hell is that? Is it a plat split thing?

    I think starting new players at 55 could be interesting, but I'm generally opposed. I think the content trivialization problems are insurmountable.

    Some suggestions:
    1. Maybe this is impossible in the client? But what if you allowed AA experience before level 51 - e.g. you could do rank 1 of the basic AA's at level 10, rank 2 at level 20, etc. The point would be to get people re-rolling characters to stay lower level for longer than a week. This might not work since they'd probably pump out the AA's just as fast. But I think some sort of encouragement for re-rolls to stay lower would be a good idea.
    2. Make cash loot tied to the number of people in group who are actively participating / deposit plat split directly into group members inventory. I may be imagining it, but I feel like I've experienced situations where I wasn't invited to group because I'd reduce plat/hour farming. Does anyone else feel like this?
     
  16. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Just to help you, but maybe not add to the discussion: usually when sub 65 people ooc to leech, they understand that they will be sitting afk (and no split) somewhere near zone in because the content they are leeching will insta kill them if they engage. When people ooc for a group, they actually want to play during groups. Typically, 65s don't group sub 65s because sub 65s add nearly no dps/healing/utility at the 65 game. (I also feel like at this point there will be very few, if any, sub 65 groups farming Plat and unwilling to split...)

    I don't think your issue is a Plat split thing (specifically) I think it is a level based thing. Most of the server is 65 and almost no one is going to let you 'actively' xp with them until you are 65.
     
  17. Haenir

    Haenir Developer

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    Ah, that does make some sense. Do you think it's better to get to 65 without AA's for the better chance at grouping? Or take some time at 55 to get AA's?
     
  18. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I haven't done it in several years, but I'm thinking after you get your adept quest ring at 52, level to 65.

    Edit - I would xp lock at 52 to get the quest ring and at 55 to get run 3.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
  19. RobbyBenson24

    RobbyBenson24 Dalayan Elder

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    Don't you have to kill Ragnarati in Mielech (who is lvl 52 max)?
     
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  20. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Yeah I always let people leech when I'm in OG but I don't typically like people fighting with me because they generally eat rampage, AOEs that I resist, complicate the mobs that charm or mez, etc.
     

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