Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Oualawouzou said:
In other words, they were raid mobs in non-raid zones.
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Are you just not reading or something :psyduck:

The concept of a raid as something you would commonly organize around a lot of people to systematically acquire loot for all of them did not exist, they just threw Naggy and Vox in as supermobs without really giving much thought to it and from the tactics to defeat those supermobs, raids were created. You can't label them as being designed for something that never even entered the minds of their designers.
 
Wiz said:
Vox and Naggie were not supposed to be taken down by 6 people, they were supposed to be nearly unbeatable mobs that only people banding together could occasionally defeat. This is miles away from having an organized focus towards a "raid game".
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Heh, you missed the point.
I understand that they could not be done by a 6 man group, hence the "raid game" of origional game. I find it odd that you stated above that "raids" were not even a concept untill VP but then come back and say that naggie and vox are "nearly unbeatable mobs that only people banding together could occasionally defeat". If that isnt a raid, then i really dont know what is. The fact that it did require "people banding together" hints that some planning tward a "raid" event had taken place.


Wiz said:
Are you just not reading or something :psyduck:

The concept of a raid as something you would commonly organize around a lot of people to systematically acquire loot for all of them did not exist, they just threw Naggy and Vox in as supermobs without really giving much thought to it and from the tactics to defeat those supermobs, raids were created. You can't label them as being designed for something that never even entered the minds of their designers.
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Again we see what your ideals of a raid are, and also you state that no events like that existed in the game until VP. But apply your definition to what you said it would take to kill naggie and vox, or even phinnie back in the day.

To state that VP was the only place that required a "raid" is just silly. Show me a 6 man group to take down any origional, or pre VP kunark dragons during the era that the content was release and i will agree with you that they are not raid mobs.

Its true that VP was the first zone completly made of "raid" events, but that doesn't make raids not exist.

I assume you were there when the mobs were designed, as you seem to have a good idea what the designers were thinking when they created the mobs....

Kirin Folken said:
been there done that... Did a Vox raid back when people thought the Ghoulsbane was a top tier paladin weapons and the soul reaver for the Shadowknights weapon of choose.

Yeah those were the days.. No stats on basicly anything.. and a 20 dmg 42 delay weapon was GODLY!!!

Urrgg... I glad it changed :)
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Are you actualy trying to tell me that you took down both naggie and vox with 6 people during the origional game era?

Reguardless this doesnt have much of anything to do with Vanguard. Its true that Vanguard isnt complete, but they made it clear they were releaseing early. I just get annoyed with people saying "Vanguard is so crappy, it has so many bugs that make it impossable to play". But when asked what bugs stoped them from enjoying the game it usualy comes down to bitching about issues that dont really effect game play, or i found this quest that wasnt completed. Yeah there are some pathing bugs and yeah there are some quests that are broken, but you can go to one of the other 50 places for your lvl range to get exp or do one of the other 30 quests in that area that do work.

Its ok if you just dont enjoy Vanguard, not everyone will, but you dont have to spread silly rumors about the game without anything to back them up.
 
Read what I'm saying instead of making shit up. I'm not knocking your favorite fantasy MMO here, I'm just saying that any comparision to original Game is about as meaningful as asking how many raid zones ultima online launched with. Raids came about as a concept before VP, raid zones did not. "Raids" were invented by players who figured out the best way to kill supermobs, wanted more supermobs, and got their wish with kunark. Arguably the planes could be called raid zones, but they were actually thought out for the 6-person model (minus unbeatable god supermobs) and then cranked up to fit the raid model that players wanted more of. If you want to make the case that VG does not have too few raid zones, compare it to something meaningful, like Velious or Kunark or WoW or something.

No offense there buddy, but I'm pretty sure I know a lot more about this game than you do, seeing as how I've spent the last five years working on this server and EQemu and reading up on what the developers of the game had to say about raids and the early game. They actually used to stop by EQemu back in the day. So yes, I have a good idea of what went through the developer's minds when they created Vox and Naggy, and it was not "hey let's base our game around 30 person slugfests for loot"
 
Pretty sure you need to read the whole thread, not once did i say you were bashing Vanguard. Here, i will quote who i was replying to.

Rileigh_lanys said:
I followed this game for a good 2 years, was in beta for over a year. The game was no where near ready for realese. I did buy it and played for about a month when I got frustrated with the bugs and lack of high end content. That's when I came here... :)
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I think the comparison to origional Game is rather meaningful, as i have stated, Vanguard was ment to be a 6 person game as well. At one point a dev stated that there will be SOME raid events, but raiding will only be about 10-15% of the high end content that they are planning to create. That seems pretty similar to the concept of the origional game doesn't it? So the fact that there are 3 "raid zones" would suggest that they have actualy given more raid content than they had planned to. Velious and Kunark came out with the idea that there would be a good amount of raid content, Vanguard didnt realease with that intention. I dont see how that is a good comparison.

You act like the Devs had no idea that players would take large groups of people and try to kill these encounters. That it was just extreme creativity of the masses that created raids. There has to be a reason to create a raid or it wouldn't have happened. The Devs wanted the events to take more than one group and tuned them as such.

Please show me where i claimed to know more about the game than you do, or possably the place where i claim to know what people were thinking almost 10 years ago. Also, please point out where i said they were baseing the game on 30 person slugfests for loot.

Naggie, vox, and phinnie are the raid encounters of the origional game. They took a raid to kill during the era they where released in. The devs inteded it to take a raid to kill them, or they would not have created them as such. I understand that this is a very small part of the origional game, but its there. This isnt to say the whole game is based around raids, because it was not. But these three events were "raids".

Your first post seemed to imply that there is were no raids untill VP. If that wasnt your intention, then i have made a bad assumption.
 
I never said there was no raid, I said there was no dedicated raid zones. :psyduck:

"Lots of players to kill a monster" is not all there is to the concept of a raid. There were supermonsters, but they were intended to be these godlike things that players might once in a blue moon throw a mound of corpses at to beat. In fact, I recall a developer saying that they never expected anyone to really beat Vox and Naggy, and that they weren't even itemized on release. Please stop putting words into my mouth, it's quite annoying.
 
Heh, ok ok, all powerful WIZ. This is going no where. I wont argue with someone that picks and chooses parts out of text to reply to. Also the fact that you feel the need to throw little "smart" (if you wana call it that) ass remarks and insluts into the mix whenver you get a chance. You win, i had no valid points whatso ever. Man I am glad we could come to this point, it would suck for someone to provide a diffrent veiw of a subject than the all mighty OZZ err WWIIIZZZZZ!

I am done here. I can only hope this makes it into happyland.
 
morph said:
Heh, ok ok, all powerful WIZ. This is going no where. I wont argue with someone that picks and chooses parts out of text to reply to. Also the fact that you feel the need to throw little "smart" (if you wana call it that) ass remarks and insluts into the mix whenver you get a chance. You win, i had no valid points whatso ever. Man I am glad we could come to this point, it would suck for someone to provide a diffrent veiw of a subject than the all mighty OZZ err WWIIIZZZZZ!
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Dude. I can only guess that someone's ban stick is out getting cleaned or something. If you would just make some sort of effort to understand what he is trying to say, you'd realize that you've somewhat misunderstood his point and gone off on a tirade debating based on that misunderstanding, polishing it all off by being a bit of a tool about it.

Fight the power, last great act of defiance and all that crap, I guess. Whatever. Hope when all is said and done it was worth it to ya. /shrug
 
morph said:
Heh, ok ok, all powerful WIZ. This is going no where. I wont argue with someone that picks and chooses parts out of text to reply to. Also the fact that you feel the need to throw little "smart" (if you wana call it that) ass remarks and insluts into the mix whenver you get a chance. You win, i had no valid points whatso ever. Man I am glad we could come to this point, it would suck for someone to provide a diffrent veiw of a subject than the all mighty OZZ err WWIIIZZZZZ!

I am done here. I can only hope this makes it into happyland.
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You should go write a song about how the man has oppressed you by arguing with you on the internet so that you can express all that bottled up rage.

:toot:
 
Emaldon said:
Xardon said it was like Wow but with new skin. Woah, not quite. That game is nothing like Wow, only thing that they have in common is they are both MMORPGs.
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Actually, I would agree with Xargon on that. With the way that xp is awarded most significantly through quests and the way the player is just led around from one meaningless quest to the next, it feels a *lot* like WoW. I'm really trying to overlook this fact, but that was one of the biggest reasons I could just never really get into WoW, so I'm beginning to think it's a losing battle here. I'm playing through my teens now, and I've still yet to get any kind of feeling of purpose, *or* adventure, for that matter. It's just one mindless quest after another, and the best they've managed to make things interesting, is drop enough KoS mobs in just the right spots to make it a necessity to fight your way both in and out.
 
morph said:
Are you actualy trying to tell me that you took down both naggie and vox with 6 people during the origional game era?

Reguardless this doesnt have much of anything to do with Vanguard. Its true that Vanguard isnt complete, but they made it clear they were releaseing early. I just get annoyed with people saying "Vanguard is so crappy, it has so many bugs that make it impossable to play". But when asked what bugs stoped them from enjoying the game it usualy comes down to bitching about issues that dont really effect game play, or i found this quest that wasnt completed. Yeah there are some pathing bugs and yeah there are some quests that are broken, but you can go to one of the other 50 places for your lvl range to get exp or do one of the other 30 quests in that area that do work.

Its ok if you just dont enjoy Vanguard, not everyone will, but you dont have to spread silly rumors about the game without anything to back them up.
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No I am not subjesting anyone short of post Velious could 6 man Vox/Naggie. (without exploits or bugs)

I was just saying I was in the Game during the time the thread was talking about. When Vox/Naggie where basicly UNBEATABLE, short of MASSIVE Body Rush and alot of people.

You need to chill out, I choose not to play Vanguards and gave my reasons. They are not right or wrong, they are "my" reasons so dont take it personialy and attack people about them. I played some of the beta Vanguard and was VERY unimpressed, like I said the reviews I see now of Vanguard are unforgivening, and I dont need a 600 billion megapixel game (hense why I have never nor will ever own a Xbox/360). Ill take my guildwars and SoD over Vanguard any day of the week.
 
I was wondering with vanguard. Anyone still playing it? how much per month is it? and What about the game makes it worth paying.
 
Costorin said:
I was wondering with vanguard. Anyone still playing it? how much per month is it? and What about the game makes it worth paying.
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It costs 50$ for the game and 14$/mo to play. I have yet to try it out because I dont have a PC that can support it, so I can't answer what makes it worth paying. A bunch of people from SoD play on the Flamehammer server. I'm sure one of them could comment about game play.
 
I played it for a month as a bloodmage and various other characters. Here's what I thought about it.

I pre-ordered and hoped in a day before it was actually released (they had some download deal). I made a Goblin Bloodmage and was in awe at how awesome the game was. The begining was just intense.

Sadly, this slowed down to a near halt very quickly. Questing is a dull-boring state of affairs in the game, much of the content (even at low levels) wasn't even near being finished, and it just wasn't that fun. They took the BAD part of EQ and made it into an MMO. The combat was boring, the casting system was stale, and nothing screamed new.

No new concepts.

No sense of "I REALLY WANT THIS ITEM/LVL" because most spells past 20 are just an upgrade.

it just wasn't very fun.

It's what EQ2 was supposed to be, minus what made EQ fun in the first place. But the REAL bad part about the game is the community. I've never seen such a snobby, stuck up, elitest crowd in my life. The entire time I played, I didn't meet a single nice person. Everyone was a greedy loot whore (even with 'twinked' out low levels) that wanted nothing more than to finish what THEY wanted and to leave the group... if you could even find or make one.

The only fun were the dungeons that were partially finished... and you couldn't experience them to the fullest because of either a very poor design, terrible player base, or a combination of both. There was also no challenging content at all. You either couldn't kill a mob or you could wipe out an entire army of them.

The game failed to deliver that EQ Kunark-Velious feel which was promised and I'm pretty pissed that I didn't get my $50 worth.

Now, the game MIGHT be worth coming back to in, I dunno, a year or so... but in it's current state it's crap. IMHO, it's almost as big a flop as WW2 Online.
 
CrimsonEdge said:
No new concepts.
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That's pretty much the same feeling I got as well. There just wasn't that spark to make me enjoy playing it. It did get stale very quickly for me. Most times I kept saying to myself, been here done this in Game X or Game Y. The diplomacy aspect as new, but that alone couldn't save the game at all for me. Your other point about the community was on par too. Unless you go in with a core group of friends, it can be difficult.
 
Wiz said:
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561#more

:toot:
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Wow so the design company who made Vangaurd shut down? It was such a good concept that I was actually tempted while playing beta to buy it at the end.. but when the last few beta phases were done in a matter of days and it was released with no bugs fixed.. I was like NOPE. Glad I found Shards so I could enjoy playing an online game again. :)
 
Wiz said:
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561#more

:toot:
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Wow, I've been playing Vanguard for a while, but I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. Depressing.

I followed the early development (stopped paying attention when college started demanding much of my time) and was expecting some revolutionary ideas and such (like Druids controlling the weather and such). The product, which was clearly not ready at release (I had to download the game after purchasing a broken disc and then had to install outdated drivers for my graphics card), and it was just an EQ2/WoW clone. The game is much more playable now but, alas, just as simple as the aforementioned similar games. The funny thing is how many current players go on and on about how much more difficult this game is than WoW. I don't have much WoW experience (other than leveling a few characters to lvl 6 on my brother's account), but it doesn't get much easier than what I've seen in Vanguard.

It's okay, I continue to play it, but my recent experiences soloing with my rogue in Vanguard have led me back to SoD. A game/emulation where combat requires more thinking (and people) and less repetitive button pressing.
 
Its an unfinished game, too much $ for the current patch and material its at.... it eats your ram and memory too :( and anyone notice that SOE is its thingy.. people who give them money
 
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