Warrior Agro, Info Request

It's hard to take anything you say seriously given your post history and your insistence that warriors are somehow broken. Regardless, many guilds have made it through the low tiers without the issues you are imagining. Gearing your tanks has always been one of the big bottlenecks of progressing through the tiers and thanks to all of the new zones, quests, and fantastic droppables it is easier now than it has ever been.

There have been myriad recommendations in this thread and you have unsurprisingly ignored all of them and turned it into another warriors are broken bitchfest.

I would argue that you have many more weapon choices than knights, monks, beastlords, or even rogues at your tier.

You'd be better served by logging in and getting AA/gear than continually asking that the raid game be made easier.
 
terr281 said:
The Sword of the White Dragon cannot be used by a warrior due to the proc being a dot. (Which, of course, removes the possibility of the warrior getting agro on multiple mobs and allowing the "extras" to be mezed.)
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That is a silly argument, especially when taken in the context that your entire request is centered around raiding.

As I posted minutes ago, I understand that. But, CSI or "more mana" isn't required for a caster to do their job. It only helps them slightly.

A warrior is required to keep agro to do his job at all. (Short of /shielding the MT.)
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Casting is required for casters to do their job, just like aggro is required for warriors to do their job. You can generate aggro without procs, just like they can cast spells without that extra mana. There is very little difference. If you have lower aggro generation, your raid can do less DPS to let you keep it. More aggro lets you do your job better, just like being able to cast more spells lets a caster do their job better.

As for the rest of the Spear mobs, (if lucky and they are up) 6 different zones of "raiding to get to the mob," for drops that might not drop on them.
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IIRC the eyes drop every time off every one of those mobs. Compare the difficulty here to that of obtaining Lifeward (which someone mentioned here), a cleric required artifict whose clicky you will NEVER replace at any tier, or the shaman mask which won't be replaced for a very long time. Neither of these drop off a mob you can kill on your guild raid night. If you want to play the class well, be ready to put in the effort to get what you need to be effective.

I have to stick by my scenario here. For a warrior to do their single job, they have to keep agro. Yet, to do so, raid tiers 1/2 are skipped of any ability for them to be able to.
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You've been given several alternatives. Lots of warriors have come through that tier just fine (including at least a couple in this thread) with things the way they are using the alternatives that you do have available to you.
 
Low tiered gear is simply more about trade-offs. Haste/focus items have otherwise crappy stats and weapons with procs have junky ratios and stats.

This doesn't effect knights because they can ignore haste completely and equip themselves with the best defensive gear and still hold aggro with spells with out any problem. It's not really fair, but I'd say that knights are a bit out of whack in this respect and all the other classes have to face these types of trade-offs early on.
 
Wesell said:
Also the Prismatic Crystal Katana is not really any good. I was expecting more from this piece, but trust me it's not worth using.
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I must disagree. This has always been great aggro for me. Stun is huge aggro (just ask any good enchanter, or even a paladin). In fact, I still keep this bagged on me for when I have to tank more than one mob.
 
I misread the spell text on Winter's Fury, my apologies on that one.

As for the mobs on the spear quest always dropping the eyes, I can say they don't. I've killed two of the mobs before, no eye dropped either time.

As for skipping, I'm not skipping them. But, every tier 1/2 faction aligned item mentioned so far has required working for the Dragons by killing Giants. If you are Giant aligned, there are no equivalents.
 
Prim said:
It's hard to take anything you say seriously given your post history and your insistence that warriors are somehow broken. Regardless, many guilds have made it through the low tiers without the issues you are imagining. Gearing your tanks has always been one of the big bottlenecks of progressing through the tiers and thanks to all of the new zones, quests, and fantastic droppables it is easier now than it has ever been.

There have been myriad recommendations in this thread and you have unsurprisingly ignored all of them and turned it into another warriors are broken bitchfest.

I would argue that you have many more weapon choices than knights, monks, beastlords, or even rogues at your tier.

You'd be better served by logging in and getting AA/gear than continually asking that the raid game be made easier.
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I will simply answer that I do beleive warriors are not balanced with the other tank classes. Yet, as it has become clear complete class balance threads are not wanted, I focus on specific issues.

In this thread, I am focusing on a specific issue.
 
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terr281 said:
As for skipping, I'm not skipping them. But, every tier 1/2 faction aligned item mentioned so far has required working for the Dragons by killing Giants. If you are Giant aligned, there are no equivalents.
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Sword of the White Dragon comes from... *drumroll* killing dragons.
 
Wesell said:
Low tiered gear is simply more about trade-offs. Haste/focus items have otherwise crappy stats and weapons with procs have junky ratios and stats.

This doesn't effect knights because they can ignore haste completely and equip themselves with the best defensive gear and still hold aggro with spells with out any problem. It's not really fair, but I'd say that knights are a bit out of whack in this respect and all the other classes have to face these types of trade-offs early on.
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Thank you, Wesell.
 
Rorne said:
Sword of the White Dragon comes from... *drumroll* killing dragons.
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Indeed it does, from a dragon that has not been up through approximately 1.5 months of raiding DHK. But, as said, when someone finds a weapon that I miss as "able to be gotten," I thank you for the suggestion.
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Reply to Guiardo reference of casting vs. agro:

I would argue that the difference in casting 1 more spell with equipment that gives you a total of 200 more mana via +mana and +casting stat is not equal to the ability to fulfill your only role in a raid.

As for the silly comment about raiding, mezing can be done on raids at this tier...and it regularly is.

And, I thank everyone for the appropriate suggestions mentioned. (Which, thus far, are 3 that are actually gotten from raiding...thus not farmed.)
 
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terr281 said:
Thank you, Wesell.
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My point was that knights have a goofy non-gear based form of aggro generation which exempts them from some of the gearing choices that every other class has to make. It's not really evidence that there is a problem with other classes who do have to make trade-offs in gear selection. It also leads to silly things like SKs falling behind on aggro generation later and Paladins having aggro that simply scales with the HP of thier foe rather than somehow being related to the power of the Paladin.
 
terr281 said:
In this thread, I am focusing on a specific issue.
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You've yet to prove that it is an issue. The burden of proof is on you, not on the everyone else, to prove that warriors are overly limited in weapon selection at low tiers. The very fact that you made this thread asking for help shows that you are not equipped to make this argument.

You are getting hostile responses in this thread, as in every other thread you've made, because you accept neither suggestions nor that you might be (gasp!) wrong.
 
terr281 said:
I would argue that the difference in casting 1 more spell with equipment that gives you a total of 200 more mana via +mana and +casting stat is not equal to the ability to fulfill your only role in a raid.
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And that might be a valid argument, IF you were unable to fulfill your only role on a raid without a new weapon. However, countless warriors have successfully fulfilled that same role with the same, or fewer weapons available to them.

You can fulfill your role in the raid with pretty crappy weapons. However, everyone else generating aggro has to adjust their aggro generation to allow you to keep at the top of the list. Rogues evading more frequently, monks FDing, Wizards using concussion....

Just because others have to manage their aggro generation does not mean you cannot fulfill your role. Get used to this; it's not just at tiers 1 and 2.
 
If you want to further discuss my post history and my view on the warrior class of SoD, please pm me Prim.
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Again, I thank those that have shown the options that I have missed to alleviate the first-hand situation that I am experiencing.
 
Just be thankful you don't need CMal 3 gloves any more. I'm not sure who your char is so i can't give specific recommendations, but an old trick we used to use a few years ago was have an SK build agro for 30 secs while you /shield, then AE taunt off him and go about tanking.

Its a bit unorthodox, but it works.
 
terr281 said:
Bawww.

Rorne mentioned killing Parc, the mob which dies without hours of him spawning (in droppable loot form anyway.)

I have to stick by my scenario here. For a warrior to do their single job, they have to keep agro. Yet, to do so, raid tiers 1/2 are skipped of any ability for them to be able to.

Bawww.
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terr281 said:
Indeed it does, from a dragon that has not been up through approximately 1.5 months of raiding DHK. But, as said, when someone finds a weapon that I miss as "able to be gotten," I thank you for the suggestion.

Blah.
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Wow. Are you fucking retarded? Your entire mentality cheapens the hard work and time that countless warriors invested into their toons before you.

Aggro.

Is.

Not.

Cheap.

It's a common misconception that aggro is easy to hold at any tier while maximizing your mitigation/avoidance as a warrior -- it isn't. You are not entitled to infinite aggro by virtue of being a warrior alone. You have to earn the gear and AAs that allow you to hold aggro, whether it's earned by farming money, quest drops, or rare raid spawns/drops is irrelevant. Stop bitching about mobs that are permafarmed -- it's called competition, and it's a big fucking part of the raid game. There's a reason almost every higher end guild has track bots. Also, the wiki raid tier breakdown is not the most accurate measurement of difficulty. Stop citing it as such.

This is not Staples; warriors do not get an easy button. Sometimes you're required to sacrifice in the vein of progression (read: faction), especially at lower tiers. No one gives a fuck that you don't want to, or that it's not easy. It's a simple choice: do it or don't.

People in this thread have actually offered you some prime suggestions, despite you being a disagreeable dipfuck. They aren't going to do the work for you. I'm sure some of them would actually help you for the asking, but you still have to dedicate yourself to your toon.

Warriors are easily the hardest class to build from scratch without any friendly affiliations. That fact contributes to the satisfaction you receive from doing the work involved with gearing and AAing your toon, should you have the perseverance to do so. Embrace it.

tl;dr: doworkson.
 
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Lol we've rotted like 2 ragebearers from ndhk and we don't even regularly scout it since it's way below our tier, so uh.
 
I think we've all been through this around tier 1/2 except for those that had a sugar daddy guild behind the shoulder.

I've kept my RHLS until I got my prismatic katana, and trashed my dragon factions to do the quest. And I don't regret the extra spent time it, as it's only been replaced by my axe of brawn (something like 1 year of use)...

It's been said already, but keep in mind aggro will never be easy. Because when you upgrade to your new weapons, your DPS will as well upgrade to new weapons/focii and you'll end up at the same point.

Aggro isn't easy, and isn't a given, at any point. You'll have to struggle your whole warrior's life, and your raid/guild will have to learn to control their aggro. It's a collective thing, and it doesn't rely solely on the warrior's shoulders. However good a warrior does, a wizard or a rogue, a monk , bard and almost anyone else can steal aggro off them anyday if they suck. Get used to it...
 
One more thing... don't forget clickies. I carry around almost a full bag of them to build aggro. Although the cmal gloves aren't a must-have anymore, they're still well worth the time spent collecting both the 1/2 and 3 versions.
 
Response to Buddy:

The quote function on forums was made so that the text within it would be a quote, hence the function.
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Response to metvayne1:

NDHK currently requires a full guild raid for us atm, especially for the names. And, during our usual raid days/times, NDHK has always been previously wiped. Bad luck, yes. But, that is the truth, is understood, and is part of competition... as was dictated earlier.
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And, I understand that agro can be pulled from a warrior anyday that most classes want to, and that it will be constant challenge to keep it.

However, my initial concern was with "how do warriors keep agro in this game." Then, it transitioned, after proper discussion, to "why are there no tier 1/2 no drop weapons that drop that aren't faction aligned to Dragons." The second second point has now, also, been answered. For both of the answers, I thank those that helped.
 
Why are you totally throwing the idea of using dropable loot out the window? (RHLS, Hammer). Tier 1/2 are so fucking broken that 90% of the loot is worse than tradeskill armor. You can take 18 lvl 65s, equip them in deepmetal, shadowsilk, etc and go straight to tier3. Buy the hammer, or the torment forged thing until you get a ragebearer and quit bitching OMG WTF is wrong with you.

EDIT

Also, where is your fomelo link?? Do you have advanced anatomy?? Haste %???
 
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