Word of spirit (Hijacked: Veil of Marlow)

Paladins and SKs take aggro from me all the time by just meleeing so I think the solution to tanking the frost golem is to just melee and pretend you are a warrior that can heal himself :(
 
See I am weepy about that. With everyone doing 25% more, SK terrors should scale a little better.
 
Im going to go ahead and ignore miffy's posts because theyre simply so incorrect I dont even know where to start :(
 
do tomes have an effect upon SK terrors?

Don't affect blinds or stuns either.
Im going to go ahead and ignore miffy's posts because theyre simply so incorrect I dont even know where to start :(

Yeah I know its hard work to have an actual discussion, much eaiser to just ignore people who disagree with you.

As for the OP and forgetting about all this Knight bs that can go on forever, there is no real point in adding the other spell as it would not be very effective form of AE agro or damage, at least in the high end. The other reason to not add the spell is that it sets a precident for impinging on the paladins niche of AE tank. I gave you many examples of how the Dev's have already thoughtfully added measures to dicourage AE exping in Ikisith in many dungeons. If you refuse to see that there are places where paladin's AE agro does nothing and SK can tank just as well or better then perhaps you need to stop ignoring the other options besides just agroing 12 mobs in low tier dungeons for exp.
 
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Paladins and SKs take aggro from me all the time by just meleeing so I think the solution to tanking the frost golem is to just melee and pretend you are a warrior that can heal himself :(

Hey he defluxes too.
 
I really do love these posts. You have some longstanding, skilled players who also happen to play Shadowknights asking for something to be addressed, that is (and has been) a problem, and happens to affect their day to day play. Then, you have the White Knight riding in to stand up for the poor Paladin class, claiming injustice and offense at any and every suggestion imaginable, because well, Paladins really need more to be more amazing right now. Add to that the people who join the thread just to raise their post count, and by the time a Developer takes a look (if they haven't already) the thread is trash canned or ignored.


I get it Miffane. You either don't want to be the underdog, or you want to remain top dog. Who doesn't? But sit back and relax for a minute, put on your thinking cap, smoke a joint, whatever, and just listen to what the people in the thread are saying. They are, after all, the one's with experience playing SKs. While your experience as the Poor Little Paladin Who Couldn't may be helpful in some other thread, it's not wanted or warranted in this one. Everyone else knows how good Paladins really are. Most people also know how bad SKs have it as well. You don't seem to, so please, just stop.


The bottom line is, Shadowknights need some form of area effect based aggro mechanic to remain a viable tank class in group and raid content. This is even more apparent as more and more Tomes are added to the game, and Paladins are chosen over SKs more and more for Tome based experience groups, leaving them at a gigantic, monstrous disadvantage. Tomes are such a huge boon to characters that no class really should be better at earning tome exp than another.

And to the Devs, I know it's easy for you to come in a thread, read this garbage we like to call a discussion and go: "Welp, things seem just fine, everything is as we want it to be. Case closed!" but please, give the idea some honest thought. There is a reason Shadowknights have been repeatedly asking for some sort of boost in this area: Something needs done. The three tank classes are far from balanced-yet-different equals, and that fact is fairly obvious.
 
Even if shadowknights became the master of AE tanking overnight and every terror became the same as before but pbaoe, they would be just like paladins except without what actually makes paladins good.

Paladins can heal themselves, heal others, and stun. These three abilities scale on sod like you wouldn't believe. Even though paladins do all three worse than every other class that can do them, their strength is exaggerated immensely on a tank. Shadowknights need something else to excel at besides duoing and holding aggro on single targets.
 
Even if shadowknights became the master of AE tanking overnight and every terror became the same as before but pbaoe, they would be just like paladins except without what actually makes paladins good.

Paladins can heal themselves, heal others, and stun. These three abilities scale on sod like you wouldn't believe. Even though paladins do all three worse than every other class that can do them, their strength is exaggerated immensely on a tank. Shadowknights need something else to excel at besides duoing and holding aggro on single targets.

For once I want to thank you for posting. Giving shadowknights aoe aggro up the wazoo would change absolutely nothing about what makes paladins amazing, it would just make them easier exp machines and remove paladin requirements/alleviate the stress of doing things on a sk on certain fights.

This whole your class is going to make my class pointless thing is ridiculous and detracts from the real issue so please stop it.
 
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Runes of Eternity
10% Heal, 6% Spell Crit (lifetaps?)

Runes of Supremacy
13% Heal, 8% Spell Crit (lifetaps?)

the scaling difference becomes bigger and bigger later in the game, tomes is still the biggest part of that, but 13% vs 8% matters too. I dont really know how to parse and translate the heal/hot/less dmg due to stun difference to tanking so it is difficult to compare. But it is huge.

hatesfury (ill never do hf on a sk again, pally so much easier), Elael, BQ, Citadel, remnants and kaesora all have spots, encounters, parts where having good agro on more than 3 mobs is necessary or advantageous to exp or kill nameds. Some zones have it more frequent than others. Developers of the zones are aware of that so going into details on named fights and such shouldnt be necessary, but yes, some form of better ae agro, even on a few minutes timer, would help close the huge gap.
 
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I honestly can't think of any reason why Word of Souls isn't already an SK spell to begin with. Glamrin does have a point. Spell progression wise an SK should have this spell at level 59. I seriously doubt adding this spell to an SK's spell book will instantly and for ever more trample all over a Pally's toes. All it's really going to do is help very slightly in a grouping situation on initial agro of a pull. The hate generated if not resisted is uber small. One wrong target or rain by a caster will peel said mob off. Raid wise it's going to basically be a huge waste of a spell gem.

Glamrin IMO didn't ask for much in the OP. It would go a long way in making grouping a little more enjoyable having an SK MT. I know personally if I had a choice between getting 10 aa's in a night or maybe 6 I would choose 10 aa's with the pally tanking. There really is a huge difference in the exp you can get with a pally tanking opposed to an SK. If Word went in then maybe just maybe an SK will have a spot as the MT in an experience group in lower end exp zones.

To me this seems like a very simple yet tiny bandaid fix for grouping situations. Word will absolutly be a waste of time on raids where most mobs have high magic resists. On the other hand it will help uber and newbie geared SKS get a few more groups.
 
On to agro, try tanking one of those big white golems in frost on a paladin, you can't

...

And I would never run into deep BQ or Citadell and even try to agro 6 mobs. I think your problem is you guys are focused on the old world and aoe exping, there are already places in the game where you simply do not want to pull more than 1-3 mobs or you die, when mobs are WW / DB / Ramp / all that other crazy shit ikisith mobs do there is already a discouragement for pulling lots of mobs in most Ikisith dungeons.

I've been in multiple raids that had on-tier paladins tank the PoFrost constructs, as well as having a warrior tanking them die and then having the pally tank it.

I've also been in 2 groups the last few days doing deep Citadel with 2 different people boxing 2 different paladins and each of them had no issue with pulling 4-6 mobs, keeping aggro on all of them, and also effectively playing their second character at the same time. Myrmidons and the white con constructs are really the only shit to be careful with, but we did a Myrmidon, warchanter, and roamer without too much difficulty.

Citadel, aside from the pulls of ~7 weak mobs at a time, does seem to be fine for all 3 tanks unless you go there with a caster AE group. The shit deeper in has so much health that tanking a bunch at a time isn't really worth it since your damage shield is rather insignificant and it just strains healer mana more than necessary. Better to aggro 1-2 at a time, kill them, move on, etc. Pallies are still better here though since they can stun the mobs and help with healing, while still maintaining aggro easily.
 
Also you seem to constantly ignore the fact that magic is the easiest debuffed resist in game, Malo, Tash, occlusion of sound ,fatebind, bard dot etc. Even in 6 man content you have access to the majority of these. Eitherway this thread is about the tragedy that is shadowknights and not you and your low charisma/whatever you imagine your aggro being bad due to.
 
When you start getting melodramatic, I stop reading.

The last time you talked to shadowknights you told them they had utility with dot weakening and manaskin. :(


Speaking of this another big problem with shadowknights is comparatively we have a mountain of bad/unincorporated aa's see:
Spell casting subtlety
Spell casting deftness(the only beneficial spells we have being our proc/hpbuff/ bad rune)
Pet hold (no pet)

I know you cant out right change them but it would be nice to see something incorporated for them, I was pretty disappointed when I found out our runic is not an actual pet I could summon and finally make use of my pet aa. Also nothing ever came of that thread speaking about somehow modifying subtlety to work in favor of shadowknights and pure casters
 
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Didn't say it was GOOD utility.

Regardless you guys think to small. That's all I'll hint at for now.
 
I actually did make it increase instead of decrease spell aggro for SKs... but it turns out only particular types of spells are affected by subtlety, like root and stun and mez and those kinds of things, but not straight damage or pure hate spells, so it ended up kinda not worth announcing.

Someone willing to put more work into it than I did could make it affect pure hate spells for SKs only, maybe.

Gonna own some dudes with my parcelan rings now thanks zaela. Oh well any news is better than no news
 
thanks for looking at things cyzaine, zaela! I hope you have some awesome ideas up your sleeves :)
 
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