Long time ago that song had shorter recast time or it was pulsed dont remember witch it was but it was abused by a bard (nifera) and it got nerfed. Make it a longer duration +2 tics and less resistable and its a more fun song without being a total op shit for bards. I still use it as a "oh look a citadel patroller ITS MY PET NOW" thing.
Bard Runic1
- Thread starter Xorz
- Start date
Anti Eh
Dalayan Elder
runic 1 was never pulsed. it might have had a shorter recast but that wasnt why it was nerfed
It used to be able to charm lvl 64 mobs , ie the 3 pull in emberflow before Melok taus.
and because of this we stopped taking temellian on his necro to the fight.
and he complained and it was nerfed to where it is now.
It used to be able to charm lvl 64 mobs , ie the 3 pull in emberflow before Melok taus.
and because of this we stopped taking temellian on his necro to the fight.
and he complained and it was nerfed to where it is now.
Let's try to be optimistic. There clearly ain't enough chanters on the server. I cannot think of a more proactive thing than keep this song as it is, to help.
daenar_sod
Dalayan Elder
Anvyl you are one of my favorite people on this server and this thread only makes me like you more.
windows777
Dalayan Elder
R1 is good all the people complaining are bad like... R1 is situational just like wiz r1 just like druids r2 just like conduit just like a million other things in this game... If u use the r1 right its amazing -crownk
Xorz
Dalayan Elder
lol what are we talking about. bard R1 is not situationally good. a 42 sec charm with a 3 minute cooldown.. even the level 39 charm has a 2 minute duration with only a 20 second cooldown on mobs upto level 54. AND it comes with a resist adjust. Its like someone said Here - lets take this level 39 song.. up the max level, but make everything else 100% worse and call it a rare mystical runic spell. its straight up shit lol. Say stuff like cataclysm or conduit is situational.. cmon now - all spells are "situational." the only reason a bard puts R1 in spellslot is to get into Abyss.. there is literally no other reason to charm something for 42 seconds. Any bard remember when charm kiting was a thing?
Vartax
Vartax
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Xorz
Dalayan Elder
like - what else could you possibly want to have this in your spellset for? ever? Im just requesting making it a mana over time song instead of the shit-duration/cooldown that it has. Make the song more practical.
Im trying not to just bitch about it. I mained a bard on live for MANY years. and Charm was actually practical there - as a mana over time thing. I think it would translate well in this situation
1) does anyone think this would break the game? or make the song too OP?
2) anyone got a better idea?
3) is the song practical and im just missing it?
Vartax
Im trying not to just bitch about it. I mained a bard on live for MANY years. and Charm was actually practical there - as a mana over time thing. I think it would translate well in this situation
1) does anyone think this would break the game? or make the song too OP?
2) anyone got a better idea?
3) is the song practical and im just missing it?
Vartax
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Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
So you are suggesting a charm that works on level 63 mobs that you can channel for longer than 7 tics? That seems very strong to me. The only other idea I have heard from other bards is a jolt that isnt a detrimental song but functions like a bellow. What can you add to bards that they dont already have and doesnt make them stronger than they actually are?
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
bump
As Nwaij so graciously pointed out bard r1 is similar in concept to an enchanter spell. Someone is going to say something like "you can't compare spells rabble rabble" but that isn't how the human brain functions so you leave us alone you non-human. These two spells are similar and provide a reference for what a good spell and a bad song look like. The big difference is that the enchanter spell you vendor dive in Athica while the Bard song requires questing and drop farming and, not to put too fine a point on it, is worse in almost every way.
Lets break it down for anyone too lazy to click the links. Control v. Anthem and winner
Mana cost: 875 v 1200 = Control, exacerbated by differing mana pools
Cast time: 4.5 v 3 = Anthem, though CSI makes it a tad closer
Recast: 300 v 110 = Anthem, how often are you using this emergency spell?
Duration: 12tics v 7 tics = Control, in a big way
Range: 200 v 100 = Control, which affects utility quite a bit
Resist: -1000 v 0 = Control, this is huge
Max lvl: 65 v. 63 = Control, this is huge and despite some people believing you could/should Jayla's Insight everything to know your 63s from your 64s being able to instantly tell if something is mezzable/charmable from con color is convenient beyond convenience
That seems terribly lopsided and is probably why many people think the bard r1 isn't very great. Here is my suggestion for how to get bard r1 from "situationally maybe useful but probably not even worth bothering with unless we're getting into abyss" all the way up to "situationally useful".
Mana cost: 1200 = no change. this is a reasonable downside and limitation
Cast time: 3 = no change. bard songs have a cast time of 3 seconds.
Recast: 110 = no change. this would remain the one significant benefit an endgame spell has over a lvl 64 spell
Duration: 7 tics = no change. this is a pretty serious limitation and more than justifies improving the spell
Range: 100 = no change. this is a pretty serious limitation and more than justifies improving the spell
Resist: -1000 = that this song can be resisted completely conflicts with the other design elements (cost/duration) - otherwise increasing duration and lowering recast to be in line with earlier bard charms
Max lvl: 64 = according to Nifera this was changed from 64 to 63 for a pretty stupid reason. this is a big QOL change for the simple fact "works on blue cons" is conceptually so much easier for all parties involved.
Two changes. The song would still be overall inferior to the lower level enchanter spell.
As Nwaij so graciously pointed out bard r1 is similar in concept to an enchanter spell. Someone is going to say something like "you can't compare spells rabble rabble" but that isn't how the human brain functions so you leave us alone you non-human. These two spells are similar and provide a reference for what a good spell and a bad song look like. The big difference is that the enchanter spell you vendor dive in Athica while the Bard song requires questing and drop farming and, not to put too fine a point on it, is worse in almost every way.
Lets break it down for anyone too lazy to click the links. Control v. Anthem and winner
Mana cost: 875 v 1200 = Control, exacerbated by differing mana pools
Cast time: 4.5 v 3 = Anthem, though CSI makes it a tad closer
Recast: 300 v 110 = Anthem, how often are you using this emergency spell?
Duration: 12tics v 7 tics = Control, in a big way
Range: 200 v 100 = Control, which affects utility quite a bit
Resist: -1000 v 0 = Control, this is huge
Max lvl: 65 v. 63 = Control, this is huge and despite some people believing you could/should Jayla's Insight everything to know your 63s from your 64s being able to instantly tell if something is mezzable/charmable from con color is convenient beyond convenience
That seems terribly lopsided and is probably why many people think the bard r1 isn't very great. Here is my suggestion for how to get bard r1 from "situationally maybe useful but probably not even worth bothering with unless we're getting into abyss" all the way up to "situationally useful".
Mana cost: 1200 = no change. this is a reasonable downside and limitation
Cast time: 3 = no change. bard songs have a cast time of 3 seconds.
Recast: 110 = no change. this would remain the one significant benefit an endgame spell has over a lvl 64 spell
Duration: 7 tics = no change. this is a pretty serious limitation and more than justifies improving the spell
Range: 100 = no change. this is a pretty serious limitation and more than justifies improving the spell
Resist: -1000 = that this song can be resisted completely conflicts with the other design elements (cost/duration) - otherwise increasing duration and lowering recast to be in line with earlier bard charms
Max lvl: 64 = according to Nifera this was changed from 64 to 63 for a pretty stupid reason. this is a big QOL change for the simple fact "works on blue cons" is conceptually so much easier for all parties involved.
Two changes. The song would still be overall inferior to the lower level enchanter spell.
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lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
He actually has a really good point about the resist adjust on this. The stupid reason is not so stupid when you actually do MT & a good bard can make or break the 6 man. Make those mobs immune to mez to keep the cheaters from using that spell, and bump the level back up.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
Bard doesn't break the 6 man. I've done it with & without a bard. Just bard makes it easier.
sure if your on tier with MT the bard is a huge help cause he can charm every 3rd add so the dps doesnt need to kill the add and focus on mt. Sure hes song can sure the dot that is annoying cause you dont want ppl to be to low on hps for that random 6k growl. But nowdays when everyone has tier 10+ loots or acsess to powerful toons you can just take good tank x , healer and 4 dps back in tier 9 you kinda had to roll with 2 healers.
ynnear
Dalayan Elder
of course any fight is easy when you don't do it the way its intended ^.^