Armor Drops - Recommendation

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Requests' started by Nebi, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Good morning travelers,

    In order to get the illusive combine clicky we need to go through the DHK / storms eye route first. Even before that we need to farm for the respected piece of armor.

    As far as my mind remembers these are the zones where those are available:
    • sirens
    • necrop
    • mielech
    • fist ruins ( our boiis the elementals )

    I am recommending adding a few more zones to make them easier to attain while still having the same level of difficulty in place.

    Please consider adding armor drops to the following zones
    • Everchill
    • Fire Grotto
    • high keep
    • Velketor's Labyrinth

    thank you for consideration
     
  2. Kedrin

    Kedrin Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Or possibly add the BP and Legs to harder mobs since those are the only two worth getting.
     
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  3. Dev-Cole

    Dev-Cole Developer Staff Member

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    How hard would the monster need to be to fairly guarantee legs/bp?
     
  4. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    Well, you need prison gems to complete the armor combines and you can get those gems from inner prison. Ulazzaria is the final boss of IP and she is slated as a T8 in difficulty. Ideally I think the design in SoD is that after T10 you should be doing Ikisith content primarily, and that you should be done with most of the old world content. So a T8-T10 boss would fit with the overall game design the best in my opinion.
     
  5. Valv

    Valv Dalayan Elder

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    Mielc golems have an ok drop rate. I recently farmed a plate bp/legs in a few hours there and had a few of the wrong types drop along the way.

    Those golems are kinda mean. If you're going to have something with a higher/guarantee drop rate than them it would need to be off some pretty hard mobs. Mobs that only exist in places that probably don't need any bonus incentives on them or don't work lore wise(deep fr, deep OG, Cmal, iksith zones etc)

    This is the basic, statless quest pieces we are talking about here, the piece you combine with gems that drop in the same zones as the armor. It goes on to be upgraded twice with gems from t3-4 raid zones, (dragons/giants) and then again with the combine gems from IP. Getting the most basic quest drops from raid mobs that come after IP makes no sense. You should have already finished the quest at t8-10, or at least snagged all the gems you'll need for it when you stop being lazy and farm it. Farming farhags to get tier 0 quest armor drops sounds dumb and doesn't really make this any easier to farm for most people.

    It's basically farm mielc or sit in DN for days if you cant duo golems. Having a few more options would be nice. If you took golem difficulty vs drop % and scaled it up to 100% drop rate, you'd probably end up with a t16 raid mob lol.
     
  6. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    There are already options to get the item, what cole asked was what was good for a *guaranteed* drop. I don't think a guaranteed option is meant for below the maximum needed to get items already. Guaranteed to me implies that it's for people who got through or past the content and were unlucky and can now arrive at a final option to get it easier, but from tougher content than the less consistent option.
     
  7. Valv

    Valv Dalayan Elder

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    This isn't raid content. The raid content is the gems, and no one is talking about gems. It's low tier exp zones. The armor drops and faction is just a grind that everyone with combine has had to do. If you don't have a quest drop from a zone you aren't really past the content, are you? The higher tier your toon the easier it is to go destroy the entire zone and farm the piece you need so you can move on... so there is already a mechanic in place for "unlucky" people to catch up.

    "Guaranteed" quest drops doesn't make sense, it's counter to the fundamental design of this game. If you make a mob with a 100% drop rate then that's all anyone will do and the quest becomes pointless, so the balance to that is...this mob has to be really hard? Equal in difficulty as the other farming methods, but that breaks down pretty quick:
    DN: 1000s of rats
    Mielc: 100s of golems
    ???: 1 mystery mob

    There is no way to make killing 1 mob equal to hours of farming without making it very difficult to kill, as in hours of wiping, as in as difficult to kill as 1000s of dn rats or 100s of golems at the same time... and who's going to do an insanely hard 18 man raid for some dumb quest junk you can get while duoing exp on your own? So would your idea actually help anyone looking to farm this qp right now?
    I think people are just looking for some other options on where to farm this or some harder spots for a slightly better chance, while your argument boils down to "I have a high tier toon and should be able to catapult my alts through all content even faster than is already possible." Because lets be honest, making this a 100% drop off a t10+ mob is just a lazy way for T10+ people to gear an alt, no one who actually progresses to t10 won't have taken a few hours to farm the drops by then, especially if they have a bank full of gems waiting to be used.

    It's a real bummer a quest for one of the strongest clicks in game takes you few hours to farm, really holding up progression.
    If killing golems that drop decent money, exp, opus, and quest pieces you need is too much to bear I'd hate to hear what you have to say about the vah quest lol. If wasting time farming things isn't for you, maybe this game isn't for you, cause thats all this game is...

    If every quest had a "or go kill some hard mob instead" caveat this game would be really boring, idk why this quest is any different.
     
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  8. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    I think you are extrapolating alot more than what I'm saying here. Cole asked a question that's a little different than the original posts request. I'm only answering that question and not commenting on the rest of the threads discussion. If there is a mob added that would guarantee or give a very high chance to drop this quest item, it should be in the 8 to 10 tier range, that's all. Maybe it shouldn't get put in, maybe that's a good solution to reduce the tedium of getting it, but I'm not commenting on any of that, just giving a tier estimate that would fit design wise.
     
  9. Otcho

    Otcho Dalayan Pious Diety

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    This part of the questline used to be a lot more tolerable when you could just drop down the hole and knock it out in an hour or two of casually logging in for elemental princes. Bumping the rest up to higher drop rates and or populating other zones would be nice.
     
  10. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

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    I think you're missing his point in thinking the armor is directly for combine. its first for ornate ( not counting the shittier ones) then its for combine. The items themselves arent really well and there is no reason to put them on a t8 - 10 mob unless its in combine state.

    I think what we need is just a database push to allow these mobs in other zones to drop. i'm not looking for an easier to farm one and done mob. I just want mobs that people kill to drop them.
     
  11. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    I'm very much aware of what the item is and how it is used. Is it being on a t8 to t10 mob really that shockingly high to people? So yes, to clarify, I think that the statless base quest item that is used before you put any set of gems into it, should drop at a guaranteed chance off a mob that is past the level of raid content to get the actual combine armor, if that's what cole is looking for.
     
  12. Gargate

    Gargate Dalayan Elder

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    Good luck getting a raid to take the time clearing to and killing t8-t10 monsters that everything but the qp will rot when the individual can farm them on their own. Sounds like a giant waste of raid time when you can be killing real targets.

    More zones wouldn't hurt, but if they add them to harder monsters for better drop rates I wouldn't mind knowing what the actual percentage drop rates are and scale a bit from there. Anything past what t10+ tank can duo for near guaranteed drops would be silly though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  13. Valv

    Valv Dalayan Elder

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    It isn't shockingly high tier, but it is a shockingly bad idea.

    No one wants to go raid undercity for a t0 quest drop. It doesn't even makes sense to do so. If you could clear that raid zone in 2 hours(big IF here) that would be 36 hours of player time to farm 1 quest piece that a player could duo themselves in ~4 hours while exping. No one is going to do that. No one wants that. It's a bad idea and will do nothing to help anyone actually looking to get this drop.

    Even with a 100% drop rate you still only have a 1/8th chance of getting the piece you need. So you could clear farhags or undercity and rot all the quest pieces and waste even more time than just going to mielc and exping. Or will random t8-10 mobs just drop all 8 types at once? Better make that mob 8x harder... Tier 64 mobs! I've run out of ways to say this is a dumb idea.

    This quest is hardly the most egregious waste of time in the game, CoI quest takes longer, gives less of a reward, makes you run all over the world and is mostly killing gray mobs so you're not even exping... Vah is still riddled with bottlenecks and there's like 40 people playing this game, swords don't drop off of maps harder than ED... etc etc... Theres plenty of examples where quest drops could be made convenient but are not, so again, why is this quest special? Raiding and questing are two largely unrelated progression tracks, they interact from time to time but there is a good reason for them being separate.

    How many people would do murk faction to ally if you could go kill a mob in abyss that drops a 1 use clicky that gives max faction with murk?
    "But the murk quest can be done by t3 toons easy so why can't this be a t10 raid drop?"
    How many people would do the vah quest if t12+ mobs dropped banners 100% of the time? Fucken nobody. Nothing in Vah is harder than ~t8-9 so that's fine... right?
    Sounds dumb, because quest progression isn't about killing 1 hard mob, raid progression is. And if raid progression = all progression then why not make supreme charms drop off t12+ mobs? I could go kill thousands of mobs and farm cash but I can kill t10+ stuff so I should just be able to kill 1 mob and get it 100% of the time, right?
    I could go kill mobs to exp this tome in a few hours but why not just add a raid mob that drops a 100% tome exp filler clicky? I'm t12, I don't have time for this grinding farming bullshit. /s
     
  14. AngryCow

    AngryCow Dalayan Elder

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    I dont think your comparisons are fair. But I'm not here to argue about what your going on about. A dev asked a question and may be seeking to help the issue, so hopefully this thread can tone down the rhetoric and get other specific mob difficulty suggestions out there.
     
  15. Latten

    Latten Dalayan Elder

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    Add the armors to thurgadin bounty rewards. They are the third faction in that war so they should have some insight about the armor molds.
     
  16. Gargate

    Gargate Dalayan Elder

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    Makes sense, and most of the current zones align with the lower ranked bounties in difficulty. It would just be a matter of how many tokens.
     
  17. Masuriya

    Masuriya Dalayan Elder

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    Or let me kill thurgadin dwarves for combine armor
     
  18. donfolstar3

    donfolstar3 Dalayan Master

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    I think this is a great solution. It encourages using something that is "bring a newb to work" friendly and is lore friendly. Maybe jazz it up by adding an NPC in the fairly under utilized Icewell Keep castle who is something like:

    "Hail, Smarty McFrostbottom"
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "Howdy Ho Adventurer, have you come to see my research on the [insert some explanation of the Scale/Storm armor]"
    "Yes, tell me about the armor."
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "Well, I have learned what I can from field reports but what I really need is to be able to study the pieces. Our scouts have acquired some of the damaged pieces the Dragons and Giants use to create their armors. I need someone who can be trusted to take these pieces and acquire the specialized armor to further our research."
    ------
    [Sub Ally/Warmly Faction]
    "I can be trusted."
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "No, you can't."
    [Ally/Warmly faction]
    "I can be trusted."
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "You are a friend to our people, but I do not personally know you. Perhaps if you could do me a favor! In my youth I hired our local Bounty Hunters and paid with family heirlooms I long to have returned. If you could convince the Bounty Hunters to return any of the heirlooms I think we can work together."
    -----
    Add an item, McFrostbottom Heirloom to the bounty hunters that costs ?XX? First Rank bounty tokens.
    -Maybe 50? that's doing an awful lot of bounties and a fairly high opportunity cost compared to what you could buy.
    -----
    "Hail, Smarty McFrostbottom" [trade heirloom]
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "A thousand blessings to you for returning my heirloom, Adventurer! Please, take a piece of armor and report to me what you can learn from the Dragons or Giants. Which piece would you like? [list of armors]."
    [this stage is repeatable]
    -----
    "Hail, Smarty McFrostbottom"
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "Have you managed to get any armor Scale or Storm samples?....
    -I don't really know what do with this part, maybe nothing. BUT, I would like to segue into another idea separate from this one:


    Totally separate idea from the one above that should be looked at separately and not meant to derail, so sorry if it does
    "Hail, Smarty McFrostbottom" [after completing Gemstone of Scale/Storm]
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "What is that gemstone you are wearing adventurer?! It is amazing! May I study it?"
    "Certainly, anything for science."
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "This confirms several theories I have about [Scale/Giant] magic! If you would be willing to part with this gemstone I believe I can fabricate a similar gem if you would be willing to pay for some of my materials. XXXXpp should be enough"
    [Hand Smarty XXXX plat and Gemstone of Scale / Storm]
    Smarty McFrostbottom says "Success! Here is the gemstone. I cannot thank you enough for your contributions. I shall be sure to include your name when I am published."
    [Smarty Hands you "Dwarven Gemstone of the Scale/Storm", which is identical to the gemstone you turn in but isn't faction bound]

    Why have this? A few reasons:
    -It is the proactive alternative to Reforging the mark, which is great that it exists instead of nothing, but permanently nerfing your character isn't.
    -It could segue into some other helpful quests like trading Smarty McFrostbottom ornate, combine stones X:1 for the ones you want to simplify gem farming. Up there where my the original idea trailed off you could talk to Smarty about the gems they need and he could say "we have collected these but do not know their purpose" and he'll trade you X:1. Then when you do the Gemstone of Scale/Storm he could say "there is a greater magic at work here! [blah blah combine blah blah]" then exchange combine stones X:1.
    -Having an aug that is faction bound to 10 tiers ago isn't helpful or even engaging, it is just a nuisance that makes helping newbs more restrictive. Do it for the newbs.

    edit: grammar, expanded on second to last point
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  19. Valv

    Valv Dalayan Elder

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    This is such a great idea. More reasons:

    You're not handicapping yourself by choosing a different faction for an alt.
    People that join a guild that kills a different faction won't be excluded from helping their guild raid.
    No longer having to choose between killing giants or dragons when they are both so fun to kill.
     
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  20. Ezie3205

    Ezie3205 Dalayan Elder

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    I love the Dwarven Gem idea. As a tailor who joined a Dragon loving guild I hada hell of a time farming Wurm hide to skill up. Had to make a character specifically for farming those hides.
     

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