Itimization and Instrument mods

Emerica

Emerica

Dalayan Elder
After reading Araels post I got curious.
Currently here are the items for tiers 7 through 12 and the ammount of items for each.

Wind: 11 Items
Brass: 9 Items
Singing: 11 Items
Percussion: 9 Items
**Strings: 6 Items
All Instrument mods: 4 Items

Currently there is a lack of string mods on gear for the tier range of 7 through 12. From the looks of items(not including all instrument mods OR instruments themselves) a dip of 3-5 items with potential string mods are not there. I dont have the answers for what items I think should get these mods, if any already in game, however; it is pretty strait forward that it would be nice to have a few more items with string mods on them available for higher tier bards.



**Sure this is long. Heres a compiled list of the items in the ranges of tier 7/8 through tier 12.
All Instrument mods:
Xenelaqui, Muse of the Fallen
2.3
+130%
Primary, Secondary
MNK, BRD, BST
Nylastra'Zara, The Firstborn (12) Prison of Admyrrza

Stoneculler
1.9
+90%
Secondary
BRD, ROG

Blackened Dragonspine Cutlass
1.7
+70%
Primary, Secondary
WAR, RNG, BRD, ROG
Versikol The Chained (7) Caverns of Darkness

Zorez'Ad, Puppet of the Father
1.7
+70%
Range
CLR, DRU, BRD, SHM
Yashira, Keeper of Secrets (7) Prison of Admyrrza

Brass: 9 Brass Mods Tier 7 through 12
Fel'talla, Path of the Stars
2.7
+170%
Feet
CLR, PAL, RNG, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, BST
Taeshlin, the Fallen Guardian (13) Prison of Admyrrza

Shackles of Purgatory
2.6
+160%
Feet
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD, ROG
Melek Taus (9) Emberflow Caverns

Bracer of Animism
2.6
+160%
Wrist
PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, BRD, SHM, BST
Tar`Loc Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj Ok`Tar Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj Ju`Bor Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj

Latent Wisp of Fury
2.6
+160%
Ear
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
The Forest Gloom (11) The Remnants of Old Ikild

Chaplet of Fiends
2.5
+150%
Head
CLR, DRU, BRD, SHM
The Generals (10) Tower of Tarhyl

Melodic Vambraces
2.4
+140%
Arms
BRD
Bard Thaz Armor

Charred Banded Belt
2.4
+140%
Waist
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD
High Warden Ansaag (8) Tower of Tarhyl A frozen burning spirit (8) Azmaen, Heart of Frost

Antimagic Longsword
2.4
+140%
Primary, Secondary
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD, ROG
Weaponmaster Palgola (7) Emberflow Caverns

Daerosh's Prowess
2.3
+130%
Arms
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
Dawnlord's Tomb Cauldron of Dawn


Percussion: 9 Percussion mods Tier 8 through 12
Jur, Seed of Bitter Vengeance
2.5
+150%
Ear, Range, Ammo
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
Nylastra'Zara, The Firstborn (12) Prison of Admyrrza

Earthstomping Clogs
2.4
+140%
Feet
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, BST
Tar`Loc Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj Ok`Tar Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj Ju`Bor Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj

Golden Crown of Empire
2.4
+140%
Head
CLR, RNG, DRU, BRD, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
The Shape of Loss (10) Shar Vahl

Desperation
2.4
+140%
Legs
WAR, CLR, BRD, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
Feni`a Sha (10) The Deepshade

Epaulets of the Inexorable Dream
2.4
+140%
Shoulders
RNG, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
The Mistborn (9) Emberflow Caverns

Collection of the Decapitated
2.3
+130%
Neck, Waist
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
Talin the Patriarch (8) The Remnants of Old Ikild

Choker of Enthralling Rhythms
2.3
+130%
Neck
BRD, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
Prime Enchanter Sil'rel'din (10) Yclist, The Veiled City

Pauldrons of the Four
2.3
+130%
Shoulders
WAR, PAL, SHD, BRD
Thazeran, The Great Guardian (10) Thazeran's Tower

Warchanting Veil
2.2
+120%
Face
BRD, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
The Orator of Frost (9) Azmaen, Heart of Frost

Wind: 11 Wind mods tier 7 through 12

Dhathrael, Guise of the Guardian
2.7
+170%
Face
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
The Custodian (Sanctum) (12) Prison of Admyrrza

Rise of the Fallen
2.7
+170%
Legs
WAR, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
Gan Tribe (12) Tur'Ruj

Galeforce, The Eye's Edge
2.6
+160%
Secondary
WAR, RNG, BRD, ROG
Animation of Sil`rel`din (10) Yclist, The Veiled City

Dirgesoul
2.5
+150%
Range, Primary, Secondary
BRD
The Tear of Elael

Bracelet of Shadowed Winds
2.5
+150%
Wrist
BRD
Iskkath's Experiment (11) The Spires of Saitha

Helmet of Stinging Strikes
2.4
+140%
Head
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD, ROG, BST
An overgrown szithri (The Abyss) (10) The Abyss

Phalanx, Barricade of the Many
2.4
+140%
Waist
RNG, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
Master of the Pack (NPC) Prison of Admyrrza

Veil of Concubinage
2.3
+130%
Face
WAR, RNG, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
Caliph Askaril (8) Tower of Tarhyl

Melodic Boots
2.3
+130%
Feet
BRD
Bard Thaz Armor

Amulet of Icewind
2.3
+130%
Neck
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
Gornisht the Numb (8) Azmaen, Heart of Frost A frozen burning spirit (8) Azmaen, Heart of Frost

Strings: 6 mods tier 7-12

Steely Bark Sleeves
2.5
+150%
Arms
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
Harn, Tree of Ages (9) Shadowdale

Ubax-Un, Legs of the Shackled
2.5
+150%
Legs
RNG, BRD, ROG, SHM
Essence of the Mother (11) Prison of Admyrrza

The Star of Dawn
2.5
+150%
Primary, Secondary
CLR, DRU, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
Dawnlord's Tomb Cauldron of Dawn

Anklet of Dancing Flames
2.4
+140%
Feet
WAR, CLR, PAL, SHD, BRD
Ashwind (8) Tower of Tarhyl

Echocrystal Band
2.4
+140%
Fingers
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
The Orator of Frost (9) Azmaen, Heart of Frost

Deathless Gauntlets
2.4
+140%
Hands
WAR, PAL, SHD, BRD
Primalist Zelia (9) Grobb Undercity

Singing: 11 singing mods tier 7 through 12

Rohk's Diamond
2.4
+140%
Ear, Fingers
WAR, CLR, PAL, RNG, SHD, DRU, MNK, BRD, ROG, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC, BST
Rohk, The Traitorous Hand (11) Ruins of First City

Deception's Laughter
2.4
+140%
Face
WAR, PAL, SHD, BRD, ROG
Xi Valla, The Eternal Empress (12) Cyrtho Malath 4

Vorrel, Pupil of Frozen Shadow
2.4
+140%
Secondary
CLR, DRU, BRD, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
Eyes of the Father (11) Prison of Admyrrza

Cloak of the Manipulator
2.3
+130%
Back
BRD, SHM, NEC, ENC
A reanimated priest (11) The Spires of Saitha

Veil of Graceful Discipline
2.2
+120%
Face
WAR, MNK, BRD, ROG, BST
High Enchanter Fer`din (10) Yclist, The Veiled City

Shackle of Shrieking Shadow
2.2
+120%
Wrist
WAR, SHD, BRD, ROG
The Eighth Arm of Terror (9) Haegra Malath

Shard of Wailing Voices
2.1
+110%
Ear
CLR, DRU, BRD, SHM, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
Baphomet (8) Emberflow Caverns

Resonant Icicle
2.1
+110%
Primary, Secondary
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD, ROG, BST
The Orator of Frost (9) Azmaen, Heart of Frost

Melodic Gauntlets
2.0
+100%
Hands
BRD
Bard Thaz Armor

Brand of the Merciful
2.0
+100%
Primary, Secondary
WAR, PAL, RNG, SHD, BRD, ROG
Duke Thanes the Righteous (6) City of Mercy

Silken Whisper of the Enthralling Voice
2.0
+100%
Wrist
BRD, NEC, WIZ, MAG, ENC
Sukaynah Ghazal (7) Azzerach, the Forsaken Realm
 
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Thanks Lumineve, I was about to post this exact thread..

I think tier 7-12 is a bit broad to look at mods though, in general up to tier 9 itemization is pretty good, and upgrades come at good intervals. Let's look at tier 10+

Wind: 8
Percussion: 4
Singing: 4
Brass: 4
String: 2


4-5 seems to be a good number. There are options, while still having to make some gear choices based on mods.

the string mod selection at this tier is pretty awful though. Ubax-Un are great legs, but they get repped in Turruj, and the other option, The Star of Dawn, procs a minor group heal and is very situational.

I'd recommend adding stringed to a few key items to fix this... perhaps:

2.4 on an item in yclist for t9-10 (Chipped Golem Shoulders?)
2.5 on an item in spires for t11 (Change the bard class bracer to string instead of wind?)
2.6 on an item in turruj for t12 (Chaotic Coil of Spikes?)

just a thought
 
Itemization isn't perfect for any class. There are drawbacks for all of them. Try finding magic or cold focus in that tier, and see how many options you have. You are not supposed to easily obtain every focus and I imagine instrument mods are the same. There are sacrifices one has to make to keep foci.
 
Moraelintz said:
Itemization isn't perfect for any class. There are drawbacks for all of them. Try finding magic or cold focus in that tier, and see how many options you have. You are not supposed to easily obtain every focus and I imagine instrument mods are the same. There are sacrifices one has to make to keep foci.
Click to expand...

But you get Focus Effects like Damage Inc AND Rending Anarchy to effect your spells, as an example.

I would agree that Wind is a very "easy" mod to come by (which is awesome don't get me wrong). The belt from drakes, the headpiece from abyss, Tears of Elael weapon, Animation weapon, etc etc etc.

I cannot comment on the bard bracer because I don't see myself getting one any time soon, but I would say that the chipped golem shoulders could use a little bit of flavor and a string mod might be just the spice.
 
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Some slots that might be cool to add a string mod to:
Face, Rings, Wrists, Feet, Waist.

I say those mainly because there are already many good mods available on most of the other slots. The problem with asking to get a string mod on a shoulder piece is that from tier 9 until 12 you have to wear a shoulder piece for percussion. Getting the golden crown is just too rare to bet on for an event mob. I dont see Eisleys mob being put back in soon, so that kinda scratches off that potential slot in legs.

I guess in the end im with Arael, anything but the star of dawn or the mother legs would be awesome. 2 string choices from tiers 9-12 is not fun.

@ That badass dude shimone, bard instrument mods have been in abundance in constrast to foci. Unless something changed in the years I was gone, it was much easier for a bard to get those 5 mods he needs and has to have, vs the like 20 or whatever foci other people can get.
 
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Most common string song I can think of is the regen line. So, a boost to mana/hp regen w/o having to swap in an instrument to gain it. (I am sure there is other good songs for it, but can't think of them atm.)
 
It looks like you excluded items that have mods for All Instruments. I am not sure how many of these items exist from tiers 7 - 12.. but I do know of Stoneculler (9) and Xenelaqui (12) with mods to all. You should probably add those to the list.
 
Best example is what sabbath said, everyone else will only remember the relic Lcea's.

Here's all the other ones it gives the mod to:
Spell: Alenia's Disenchanting Melody
Spell: Cantata of Replenishment
Spell: Cantata of Soothing
Spell: Cassindra's Insipid Ditty
Spell: Chords of Dissonance
Spell: Chorus of Althuna
Spell: Chorus of Replenishment
Spell: Denon's Bereavement
Spell: Hymn of Restoration
Spell: Kelin's Lucid Lullaby
Spell: Kelin's Lugubrious Lament
Spell: Niv's Melody of Preservation
Spell: Relic: Lcea's Lament
Spell: Runic2: Runic: Denon's Dissonant Duet
Spell: Selo's Assonant Strane
Spell: Selo's Chords of Cessation
Spell: Shield of Songs
Spell: Whispers of Harmony
Spell: Wind of Althuna
Spell: Hymn of Harmony (This one is a whole seperate thread though, since it is either so nerfed that I dont notice it uses one, or its just very small)
 
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Moraelintz said:
You are not supposed to easily obtain every focus and I imagine instrument mods are the same.
Click to expand...

very true, but instrument mods are a little different than foci. rather than just 2%,4%,6%,7%, there is a smooth gradient from 1.0 to 3.0+, and this for 5 different instruments. bards work best by having several options for each, and picking the best set of mods for the task.

Obscenitor said:
It looks like you excluded items that have mods for All Instruments.
Click to expand...

i didn't count these because the mods they give are generally underpowered for the tier at which you get them, theyre more of a filler for mods you dont have/arent wearing. I'm using Xenelaqui (2.3 from tier 12) in place of any worn string most of the time because I'd lose too much swapping in ubax or star of dawn.
 
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Sure thing Bango, I was keeping out all instrument mods and actual instruments. You are correct also, those are the only two within those tier ranges. If you look at 7-12 you get 2 more, puppet from that thing in IP, and then the weapon one from sepulcher or whatever, both at tier 7.
Its changed and added now.
 
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Emerica said:
Spell: Runic2: ?? Old one used this
Click to expand...

Denon's Dissonant Duet

It still uses string mod and is probably the only song that uses string where having some worn mod is required to make it worthwhile. It is real good and any bard with it will want to use it and have a worn string mod. I don't think its too much to ask to switch to Ubax and use .1 or .2 less wind mod.

meanwhile Wind/Percussion are easily the two most important mods for a bard, being the main source for damage and increasing jolt effectiveness. A larger pool of items with those mods is great and we should all be happy we have that flexibility. There really is not a situation where you are missing a mod entirely due to itemization conflicts unless you are just being stubborn.

so basically string mod is certainly few and far between but its there and there is really no desperate need for it until you have runic2. I wouldn't add string to something, if anything maybe change the mod on some current item to string, but i don't think that is really necessary.

the REAL question is why isnt the bard class bracer at least 2.6 wind since it is a tier above yclist and Galeforce has 2.6 wind. its procs shadow though and that is pretty cool.
 
sheer1 said:
There really is not a situation where you are missing a mod entirely due to itemization conflicts unless you are just being stubborn.

so basically string mod is certainly few and far between but its there...
Click to expand...

but it isn't there after early t11. there are 0 items with string after essence legs (and quite a gap before)
 
Awesome reehs, changed that. I know when i played last the runic 2 was changed like 100 times, then I quit and have been getting clerics my last piece I need. Good to know.

I also agree with you on the class bracer. It should be the best mod up to that tier hands down. It makes no sense galeforce beats it.

As far as the string mods go, its just out there while looking at other mods. I think another one pre tier 12 would be kinda nice. Theres a huge gap from 9-11 if you are looking at anklet+star of dawn, and then the mother legs.
 
Emerica said:
Best example is what sabbath said, everyone else will only remember the relic Lcea's.

Here's all the other ones it gives the mod to:
Spell: Alenia's Disenchanting Melody (group magic dispell)
Spell: Cantata of Replenishment (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Cantata of Soothing (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Cassindra's Insipid Ditty (int/wis debuff and mana drain)
Spell: Chords of Dissonance (pb ae dmg)
Spell: Chorus of Althuna (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Chorus of Replenishment (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Denon's Bereavement (pb ae dmg)
Spell: Hymn of Restoration (hp regen)
Spell: Kelin's Lucid Lullaby (pb ae mez son, max lvl 30)
Spell: Kelin's Lugubrious Lament (calm)
Spell: Niv's Melody of Preservation (regen, magic dmg rune)
Spell: Relic: Lcea's Lament (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Runic2: Runic: Denon's Dissonant Duet
Spell: Selo's Assonant Strane (pb ae snare + slow)
Spell: Selo's Chords of Cessation (pbae dmg+ slow)
Spell: Shield of Songs (rune for melee and magic)
Spell: Whispers of Harmony (calm)
Spell: Wind of Althuna (hp/mana regen)
Spell: Hymn of Harmony (This one is a whole seperate thread though, since it is either so nerfed that I dont notice it uses one, or its just very small)
Click to expand...

Thanks Lumi, I didn't have time to go wiki them all earlier. Since you did the list, I have added what the songs do (except the 2 I don't know/don't have). I thought that some of the ae dmg ones were strings, but I remembered the one I use being brass.
Now, according to the wiki, the mod doesn't affect slows, mez, or calms. Which I guess makes sense. But there is allot of useful stuff there that it does affect, pb ae dmg, regen, runes, mana drain and snare. So Shim, there is what the string mods affect.
 
Arael said:
but it isn't there after early t11. there are 0 items with string after essence legs (and quite a gap before)
Click to expand...

and there is one song that heavily relies on string, so available mods vs string based songs seem ok to me.

now that runic2 is good and uses string, i would hope more mods will be available on items in future content, this seems like the best solution to me. before runic2, it was one of the most useless mods, so it makes sense that it is fairly uncommon.

darksabbath said:
But there is allot of useful stuff there that it does affect, pb ae dmg, regen, runes, mana drain and snare. So Shim, there is what the string mods affect.
Click to expand...

things that are not as useful at the level of raiding this post is targeting, or with better versions that do not use string.



My question is, what specific reason is string important enough to require any changes to current items? Is this something else that people want just to want? sometimes gear focuses or mods or whatever are just harder to come by at times. Its not like there isnt any on tier gear with string mod available.
 
From a raiding standpoint it could be argued multiple ways about what mods are important and what mods are not.

Wind: Gets you a couple dd's, Hymn, charm(runic1)
Brass: not really used on raids, but there is a huge selection of items available, worse case aoe damage.
Percussion: Relic dot, other dots to twist, murk song.
Singing: Quite possibly the only mod that matters next to wind for a bard. Fiery, mots being the two most used bard spells for a raid, snares/slows, pot4/other resist songs.
String: Lcea's and runic 2, shield of songs

Just from counting what I use the most during a raid I see that every mod has equal grounds of what one could gain from each. I would say that string is important as some of the other mods listed based on what people gain from them. That being said, and obviously this is a personal standpoint, I believe that having less items with this instrument modifier on them does not make sense when comparsing and contrasting to the other items and modifiers available.
I'm not sure what some of the other bards have to say but that would be my stance towards answering that question of if its considered an important mod or not.
 
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sheer1 said:
the REAL question is why isnt the bard class bracer at least 2.6 wind since it is a tier above yclist and Galeforce has 2.6 wind. its procs shadow though and that is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Galeforce didn't exist when it was made. I'm not responsible if other devs don't pay attention to the progression.

Same deal with string mods. The runic2 song didn't exist in its current state until relatively recently; as far as I know no high high tier content has been made since the change, so it's no wonder there are no string mods as you all would have complained about the pointlessness of a lute from super high end content before, etc.
 
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Ok well, ignoring the gap between t9-11, let's switch spires bracer to 2.6 stringed (the same point at which r2 is introduced, and after Ubax).. And Add a 2.7 mod to something in turruj/deeper prison?
 
I would suggest something a little different but still asking for the same thing;
Switch the class bracer and galeforce modifiers, so the class bracer is the higher of the two.
I still strongly feel like we need more string mods, however; Wind mods still trumph strings in terms of what bards gain from them that as a class bracer that should be kept.

I would like to see a fix of the problem we are posting about and bring in a string mod item that is from spires and another one in TR. That would give one from sanctum, one from spires, and one from tur. Given the choices from the others that is asking for 2 potential string items to be added some where in those tiers.
 
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