My Rogue Wish List/Suggestions

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Requests' started by Hargren, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Hargren

    Hargren Dalayan Beginner

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
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    Hello,

    My name is Hargren a level 65 rogue with most of my offensive AA's. I don't have tomes or my defensive AA"s but here is my rogue wish list:

    1.) Dalaya's Most Potent Toxin:(backstab AOE)
    A poison placed on your daggers that is so potent that, when applied to a weapon and thrust with enough force will splash to nearby creatures. Makes your backstab skill hit all nearby targets for X% of backstab damage. Regular backstab rules apply(must be in melee range and have their backs to you or it won't hit them. Max targets 5) Increasing rank of poison will add more %backstab damage to AOE


    2.) Flavor changes:(for pure dps rogue starting at lvl 1)
    Crippling Backstab: .6% chance to deal x3 backstab damage
    Devastating Backstab: .4% chance to deal x6 backstab damage
    Ruinous Backstab: .2% chance to deal x10 backstab damage


    3.)Backstab opening timer: increase to 2 seconds (also will give slightly higher chance for
    crippling/devastating/ruinous backstabs)

    4.) Assassinate changed to Execute:
    Changed to an passive or active execute on any single target under 33% health for X damage.(Z procs per minute or usable once every R minutes)

    5.) Style 11 Nightblades Grace:
    Changed to include AOE spells too. Not sure if this could be abused or not...(maybe just reduces all spell damage a certain % on all spell dmg including aoe?)but it would be very nice when in raids or groups. Hardly ever take single target spell dmg, mainly need it for aoe spell dmg which it doesn't do currently from what I've seen.


    Reasons:
    -Potent toxin will give us good aoe for helping in groups I don't have any currently(still working on traps not sure how the aoe trap and the trap tomes are though haven't gotten those yet).
    -The flavor changes shouldn't give too much extra damage, just more for big numbers to make it more fun for pure dps class similar to wizard blasts. Haven't fiddled with traps or the poisons much so I can't say anything about them yet, will try them more and improve this list with more suggestions for them.
    -Backstab opening timer can be very hard to get with any lag I miss these a lot when I've tried raiding, would be nice to have 1 extra second to hit these.
    -Assassinate is alright, would be fun to have an execute though that was be unique I think and useful against things over lvl 54 (assassinate limited to lvl 54 and below)

    Thanks,
    Hargren
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  2. Animand

    Animand Dalayan Elder

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    There’s a class tome for increased Backstab damage. Having a chance to have those hit for effectively 20x at the start of a fight is just asking to get beatdown first without any aggro adjustments. Saving Escape for that would do the job, but that doesn’t help lower level groups.

    I worked a lot with poisons and traps, and notable damage is not really a reason for those unless someone’s made something new I missed. Also, Ambuscade Expertise (the fourth rogue tome IIRC) shouldn’t exist anyways IMO, but that’s a different topic.

    (Point 1) Rogues are designed as the single target melee DPS people if they can attack the back. It would be nice to have AE options, but it’s just really not the class for it. Improving traps or poisons to do would be preferable

    (Point 2) There’s a class tome for increased Backstab damage. Having a chance to have those hit for effectively 20x at the start of a fight is just asking to get beatdown first without any aggro adjustments. Saving Escape for that would do the job, but that doesn’t help lower level groups. Also, I haven’t checked in a while, but are rogues needing a DPS boost like that? I guess if somehow baseline rogue/Backstab DPS was lowered to compensate, maybe.

    I worked a lot with poisons and traps, and notable damage is not really a reason for those unless someone’s made something new I missed. I would be nice for something good to happen to those, but you’d need a dev who wants to work on that, can manage the balance somehow, and isn’t busy with 500 other things. Also, Ambuscade Expertise (the fourth rogue tome IIRC) shouldn’t exist anyways IMO, but that’s a different topic.

    (Point 3) Love it. Makes me happy. Moving on.

    (Point 4) There would definitely need to be limits set on this as well, such as for bosses. It would be hilarious to 1-shot Isskath’s Experiment or similar mob, though!

    (Point 5) Lots of raid fights on SoD are balanced around having AEs do an expected, regular amount of damage to all characters involved. As such, having anything that interfere that can cause a huge balancing issue. Spell Ward is a thing, but it helps the lower HP characters take a similar percent of max HP in damage, and that improves the simplicity in balancing raid AEs among class HP disparity. I’m all for more ways to handle AE damage, but I’m against increased difficulty in creating/balancing/tuning new content.

    .... man, I need to get off my butt and load Windows on my new HD and log back on for a bit. I could use a grindy game again.
     
  3. Otcho

    Otcho Dalayan Pious Diety

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    Its been a really long time but I am fairly certain nightblade grace does avoid aoes. It is possible newer spells don't let it though. I will refrain from commenting on everything else but I think the greatest atrocities rogue suffer is just how bad they are for doing any form of questing or content as one of the worst duo classes in the game. Has the extra dps ever made up the utter lack of utility and awkwardness to play. Zaela come back and remake the class pls. I can agree though that the inconsistency of openings due to magical server ticks or whatever is very awkward.
     
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  4. Masuriya

    Masuriya Dalayan Elder

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    Feb 22, 2010
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    The AA works like the bard one and is spell dodge and works fine on a lot of stuff. There was some spells that ignored it (along with enchanter dampen) but those have been fixed as far as I know.

    The tome for dodging also works on melee stuff and very well. If there was more stuff that phantom striked later on it'd be way noticeable. Rogues are already the best target for melee attacks like vengeful strikes due to that.


    But I will agree that rogues could definitely use something. They can really pump a monster if needed but that's kinda it. Draeos has made suggestions before too but I don't have any of his suggestions handy.
     
  5. Draeos

    Draeos Dalayan Elder

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    Code:
    Trap Idea’s:
    Lead Explosion - PBAE AC Debuff -350
    Nightblade's Shelter - 15% Dampen Magic does not stack with enc spell only works on anyone in range of what set off the trap,
    Or
    10% reflect damage back at the mob off members of group in range of the trap duration and recast time ?
    Marked for Dead - Paints a bullseye on the target increasing the rogue's thrown accuracy 40%
    ????? – Shadowstep’s the rogue behind the target that set off the trap
    Fading presence – Negative 10 to 15% Agro for the rogue or there group? Maybe a veil type deal?
    Improved Stasis Trap – Change current trap to a PBAE Slow/Snare (Think sorrow or other niche times snaring stuff is useful)
    Faded Memory –  Wipes agro for all in range of the trap and shadowsteps them out of agro range, Think wipe recovery and priests /q’ing, that’s such an ugly way to do that why not just make it something more lore/game friendly?
    Nightblade’s Ploy – Player trigger able trap, flops the person who triggers it, Same idea wipe recovery give it a delay before it can be activated so your not triggering it soon as you cast it priest could run out to it and get flopped. Maybe not even flop escape the priest that sounds like a way better idea.
    
    Poison Idea’s:
    Sapping Stabs?(Needs a better name) – Applies a reverse DS that stacks with other reverse DS’s
    Rupture magic – Small mana drain/transfer for the group nothing ridiculous maybe 5-10mana per proc but enough that its at least noticeable maybe average it out to 50-100mana a min?
    Deconstruction – Short duration (2 tics) Construct curse with a high proc rate(so they can’t just swap in and out poisons and have straight enc utility)
    
    Scaling Idea’s:
    I only see a few ways to have rogues scale as not a whole lot changes along the tiers, 
    
    
    If backstab cooldown is no longer limited by the client and is limited by the server you can bring the cooldown down to say .1 or .05 seconds for every ??? haste over 100% Haste to match a comfortable curve.
    
    Make insidious stab a AA and have the books bring the chance up. For every Insidious stab landed the rogues minimum backstab damage and hit rate is raised by ??. Maybe have the AA do 1/3/6 and the books do 9/12/15 This is not unlike a wizards ability to ult/primal.
    
    Make worn bane damage effect backstab damage, The items are already itemized in game for the tiers and this could be a pretty easy way to help rogue’s scale.
    
    Maybe instead of just augmenting backstab with bane rogues get a new AA that makes worn bane more effective than other classes? (We are supposed to be assassins so to speak it’d make sense we’d be a little better at utilizing “knowledge” That we gain from bane than the other melee classes)
    
    Increase the crit strike cap from gear for rogue’s thru an AA. This is something that’s not hard to get a lot of on rogues as you tier up but could change up itemization A LOT and might be to easy to just stack the fuck out of this, maybe use this lightly with one of the other ideas? dunno about this one.
    
    Use the backstab damage field on item’s that is currently unused however this might require a lot of work and is what I’d call a high effort fix to balance, I am trying to keep to stuff that will require minimal to no re itemization this also doesn’t make them scale with “tier” just scale with whatever weapon you can loot think a fresh 65 with 4.3.
    
    Rejigger the weight of ratios on backstab damage but this falls under the its not really scaling its just looting 1 item.
    
    Making stance (6) Deadly Precision, Increase Accuracy, Damage, Sustainable.
    
    Rogue's are the last class to still get the resting stance /s 12, Instead of resting have this give us the ability to just sustain Deadly precision.
     
    Code:
    1) Either increase the hit range on backstab so when we are chasing something thats moving or moving ourselves or the big one latency, to often you'll be right on that edge of in auto range
    but are out of range for a backstab opps there goes 50% of your dps.
    or
    2) If not that then just make backstab not trigger if out of range, Press it nothing happens so when you are you have it.
    or
    3) Give backstab a time window to activate of say 1 second where if you press it and your out of range it gives you a 1 second grace period and then triggers.
    
    Code:
    Make Hide/Sneak universal to all mobs, make us THE group member to have for recoveries.
    
    Lower the cooldown and cast time of the trap kit to make it a viable means of utility, Maybe add timers to each trap type?
    
    Newer traps could have a chance to drop off of various 6/12/18 man rogue type mobs you get a trap off them turn them into there respective trainer,
    Trainers could include a Refugee,Murk,Erimal,Razzad,Vah ect try and keep it lore friendly and the traps could be a small avenue of progression as a toon is progressing in other area's can progress this way along side?
    
    As a side note maybe make multiple levels of each of these traps to progress on? As you complete the trap it becomes more efficient?
    
    I thought of these values as a final version break it down into 2 versions of each. Maybe the first version is quested/groundspawn, upgraded drops from the mobs? 
    Just random stuff i still had saved sent most/all? of this to taryth he liked some of it
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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  6. Otcho

    Otcho Dalayan Pious Diety

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    If traps are going to be a thing then please god make them not involve an item I have to use from inventory and then awkwardly hail to command.
     
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  7. speakeroo

    speakeroo Dalayan Elder

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    When I read that, I imagined something similar to wizards ultimate/primals, and stuff. The rogue Tome gives one of those tiers, but not quite the other. The part about the agro, can be said similarly for wizards, they usually concuss initially then nuke. As for DPS, I think right now Monks are rocking the DPS kind of hard. Rogues are in an awkward spot because they're hit or miss (pardon the pun).
     
  8. Dev-Cole

    Dev-Cole Developer Staff Member

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    New tradeskill: Trap-making. For all your rogue trap item needs.
     
  9. Masuriya

    Masuriya Dalayan Elder

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    Feb 22, 2010
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    Tinkering already exists.
     

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