Necros and you.

Very nice post Tevinter.

Also I wouldn't say Necro's are bad. They are just very slow to get their dps started, and we actually run out of mana about as fast as Wizards do.

In order to do max dps, need to cycle 5 dots; that is hard on the mana.

Also we don't have an option to do mana (almost)free dps. The pet, does a little, if it lives, so thats kinda nice. Dread Lich helps, but its not with out its risks using it.

But the mana dream I hear so much, I havent figured out how to live it, unless I settle for like 600 dps.


Anyway, really agree with the TLDR of Tevinter, also with the Rogues part.
 
I literally only run oom on Infested Monstrosity.
Necros do more than dps unlike Wizards. We can mez, FD, FD OTHER PEOPLE, fear, root, snare (we have the slowest snare in the game), tap mana for all in the group to use, debuff, slow undead mobs as well as shaman/bst can, disempower mobs and take their stats for the group, and, with the power of math, we can achieve over 80FT with buffs and worn FT. Put that with Dread Lich and you have a fuck ton of mana. We need it. However if you are oom at 20% on a normal fight, you are doing it wrong.

Snake said:
5 dots
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That is your hint on how to do more dps. you have 8 slots for spells.

And yeah, I know you're upset about the last necro conversation, but it's not like there are other tomes that are low quality...
 
Yes, and how much of that do you do on a raid? Sure, we can FD and FD other people, but honestly that's mainly just to save some minutes off a recovery. Beyond that, all of that utility is handled by someone else who does it better. Also who really has extra buffslots in a raid for our disempowers? Enchanters do more than DPS, unlike Wizards, Rangers can do more than DPS, unlike Wizards, Beastlords can do more than DPS, unlike Wizards, yet Necro's seem to be the only one's who suffer on the progression power curve.

As far as DoT stacking goes, I generally only have about four seconds in-between my four DoT cycle of Hand, Marlow, Claws, and Caress, with CSI 8. That means I'm interweaving Skitterpox and Spirit every other cycle. Please tell me how I can fit in two more spells from my spell bar.

Currently, Necro's only have one tome that improves their class, that is the point I would like to address.
 
Bonk84 said:
Yes, and how much of that do you do on a raid?
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a fuck ton. and more for just saving a raid.

Bonk84 said:
Beyond that, all of that utility is handled by someone else who does it better.
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Can clerics heal monks whenever they want when they are splitting mobs?

Bonk84 said:
As far as DoT stacking goes, I generally only have about four seconds in-between my four DoT cycle of Hand, Marlow, Claws, and Caress, with CSI 8. That means I'm interweaving Skitterpox and Spirit every other cycle. Please tell me how I can fit in two more spells from my spell bar.
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Try doing the math and figuring it out like every other MMO has you do for any DPS class.

Bonk84 said:
Currently, Necro's only have one tome that improves their class, that is the point I would like to address.
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I will neither agree or disagree. I personally like the tomes how they are.
 
Xorz said:
A said - necros are far behind most dps classes...

Dont compare your solo/kite class to a straight dps class. Problem solved
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Ok then, lets compare them to non-straight dps classes like bards and enchanters, in fact, I think we should nerf chanter mimic damage and charm DPS, along with bard procs to bring them more in line with the "non-dps class" Necro.

And since we are putting words in my mouth, never did I say that I wish Necro's were closer to Wizards in dps, I simply requested a dps change to a worthless tome, as currently we do not have a dps increasing tome like almost every other class that emphasizes damage over doing other things.
 
R2 Necro with a vah back and sovereign and other useful clickies can put up very big numbers and they are easily the best solo class in the game. I dont see a problem with necros the way they are. They might not have a dps tome, but their strands line is easily THE best tome line in game. Strands4 is king.
 
Xorz said:
R2 Necro with a vah back and sovereign and other useful clickies can put up very big numbers and they are easily the best solo class in the game.
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As a necro with nearly every clicky except sovereign and monstro hat, pazms has yet to break 1400 dps. As stated earlier, multiple other classes easily pass this threshold. I also agree with you strands is a great tome, but that doesn't justify a meh class tome, a garbage class tome, and a substantial downgrade in dps ceiling when compared to other classes.

Also I disagree, SKs are the best solo class in game, at least in a short term context.

Why is the idea of incentivizing proper dot twisting so resisted? What is the drawback to this idea?
All I'm really seeing is fear mongering based upon nerf potential.
 
Melodico said:
rude
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Have no fear it was just a tongue in cheek reference to the degrading of necros to a utility class instead of a DPS class (as they are), and when you compare the utility of those three classes how lackluster they are.

I remember the days of old when enchanters were rare and little more than crowd control and the numerous posts about the class to improve it. Also remember the bard song twist changes to allow them to be essentially boxed and reduce carpal tunnel.
 
Melodico said:
All I'm really seeing is fear mongering based upon nerf potential.
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To be fair, those fears have been validated quite a lot over the years. This doesn't feel like one of those types of requests that might lead to that sorta things though.
 
What if you give a necro pet animation weapons and use sovereign and vah back and all your clickies. I bet youd be top dps
 
SKs, paladins, warriors, and possibly monks can all solo harder monsters than a necro can. Glorax ain't soloing Favug but ja rule is. When it comes to solo exp efficiency, I'd argue that wizards/rangers/monks/possibly bst can grind out exp as fast if not faster than necro. When it comes to duos necros get blown out of the water by other combos. tank+druid, monk+druid/clr, pal/wiz, all seem to be stronger duo combos. Necros are amazing in 6 man content where their buffs/CC/mindwrack/forbidden harvest for friends tome work incredibly well. Necros also have the best survivability out of any caster.

I don't understand how anyone can think 2 of the necro tomes are fine though. Insidious elements could be removed from the game and I honestly don't think people would notice. The pet mimic lifetap tome is also a downgrade to your character, let that sink in. Completing a tome will make you do LESS dps.

EDIT: To elaborate on the tome bit, they could actually remove all necromancer non-strand of life tomes and the class would be completely unchanged on 98% of content (you'd lose dps on immensely resistant monsters, but maybe not even then) and I think they'd actually improve in situations where you want to lifetap for yourself when your pet is doing fine HP wise.
 
Tevinter said:
EDIT: To elaborate on the tome bit, they could actually remove all necromancer non-strand of life tomes and the class would be completely unchanged on 98% of content (you'd lose dps on immensely resistant monsters, but maybe not even then) and I think they'd actually improve in situations where you want to lifetap for yourself when your pet is doing fine HP wise.
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As it stands resists do not seem to matter at all in affecting DoT damage. Hitting a mob with Druid archaic (-200 FR debuff) does not cause any increase to Necro relic fire, so no DPS lost either if we lose that tome.

With the pet mimic tone, I see it's use if the pet is tanking something and you can't recall it and let R2 or spirit heal it, but the additional cast time associated with the mimic is the downfall to the tome. Under normal circumstances, Ancient lifetap takes ~4.7 seconds, then another ~4.7 seconds for the pet to cast. If you are relying on the tome to heal your pet, a lot can happen in 9.4 seconds that could render it useless. Also consider that Necro pets (I haven't seen it at least) do not spell crit, so at most the tome is only going to heal the pet for ~1900. That means the pet fighting anything over 200 DPS will Out damage the heal. I think for that tome, making it an instant mimic would be a welcome addition with minimal change.
 
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The biggest takeaway I see from this is that there are 2 class tomes that have questionable value. The chances of me/someone looking into it (no guarantees) will increase from 0 to something slightly above 0 if there's actual objective parsing to prove of the class tomes value or lack of value.
 
Rymy said:
The biggest takeaway I see from this is that there are 2 class tomes that have questionable value. The chances of me/someone looking into it (no guarantees) will increase from 0 to something slightly above 0 if there's actual objective parsing to prove of the class tomes value or lack of value.
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Fair.

I'll try and do some parses.

Where do you want them send? Or just want them posted here?

(TBH, there are several things that needs looking in to more than this, that benefits the whole server alot more than this; Bugs that you are already slowly working your way thrue.
Still it might be easier, faster and more fun for you to develop tomes, than to look for bugs, options!)
 
Also wow just read thrue the posts.

Necro is easy best solo class in game?
Show me how you solo Blurng and Earthshaker please. The Freeport Arena guy... etc etc.

Use all 8 slots for dots. Lol.
If you do that, you will spend so much time casting 3x non top 5 dots, that your top 5 dots won't be ticking at all times. aka less dps than what you could do.
Perhaps you can sneak in 1 extra so that you at times have 6 dots on (7 as R2 is really 2 in 1), but 8? Well id like to see how it's done more efficiently than just the 5 strongest, 1 of each type, but all the tests and models I have tried, ended up with "what is the best order of the 5?", never could I fit in more though.
Even keeping all 5 in at all times is hard.

I can be wrong, sure, and if so, please show me, learning is cool :p
 
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demither said:
you have 8 slots for spells.
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I don't believe I said
Snake said:
Use all 8 slots for dots. Lol.
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Usually I don't mind sharing how I do certain things but this is cancer. And I told you to
demither said:
Try doing the math and figuring it out like every other MMO has you do for any DPS class.
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I gave a personal opinion of the tomes because I dont want to get nerfed in the future, or have people touch my class, Monks got fucked for the longest time after their 17th rework and I dont want to wait a year for Necros to get un-fucked. Get the picture?
 
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