phroggonalog
Dalayan Master
For how worried you are I am surprised that you didn't, I don't know, post a mage tome idea in the Ikisith Content Discussion sometime in the last nine months
New Tome Patch
- Thread starter Kazimir
- Start date
For how worried you are I am surprised that you didn't, I don't know, post a mage tome idea in the Ikisith Content Discussion sometime in the last nine months
Hmm I agree the grammar is a bit iffy.
Pleasantly surprised anyone noticed though. Lol.
Z
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
He should have had a seance and predicted the nerf of codexes?
phroggonalog
Dalayan Master
wat
Quelian
Dalayan Adventurer
Um, I know I really don't have a place in this conversation as I'm still trying to build my AA pool. Something struck me as odd though. Logically, I would think it'd have made more sense to kill off tome V, and refund exp to players on their next couple tomes. I'm kinda curious why that didn't happen? Seems like a lot less grief would have occurred.
Manguadi
Dalayan Beginner
20% bonus for getting xp is still a massive bonus. It ought to cost tons and tons. Part of tomes being OP is that 5% for 400 AAs is too much.
Quelian
Dalayan Adventurer
Well, really, the exp cost doesn't matter. You and I both know how the raider mindset works. Whatever the exp cost is players are going to pay it because they will feel like they have to.
Making someone grind 1500 hours vs 1400 hours vs 1300 hours really doesn't make that much of a difference development side, but it's a huge difference playerside. Basically, a lot of players just had tome 5 effectively removed. You can spread it over tomes and play with the stats all you like, but really the effect is the same as if tome five was just pulled out of the game altogether.
But the devs say that this 5% is a real problem. Ok. I'll buy that. I did a little work on Vanguard as a class liason. I know how much 5% really matters in an MMO.
It strikes me that the devs could have accomplished what they need on their end - a 5% reduction in damage output - without throwing the players on a treadmill they already thought they had finished. I doubt for a lot of players the real problem is the damage nerf, it's the fact that 400 aa basically just vanished overnight with no warning. That's not going to be popular.
Making someone grind 1500 hours vs 1400 hours vs 1300 hours really doesn't make that much of a difference development side, but it's a huge difference playerside. Basically, a lot of players just had tome 5 effectively removed. You can spread it over tomes and play with the stats all you like, but really the effect is the same as if tome five was just pulled out of the game altogether.
But the devs say that this 5% is a real problem. Ok. I'll buy that. I did a little work on Vanguard as a class liason. I know how much 5% really matters in an MMO.
It strikes me that the devs could have accomplished what they need on their end - a 5% reduction in damage output - without throwing the players on a treadmill they already thought they had finished. I doubt for a lot of players the real problem is the damage nerf, it's the fact that 400 aa basically just vanished overnight with no warning. That's not going to be popular.
Manguadi
Dalayan Beginner
No but in a non-commercial mmo that's not really the goal. You have to remember a huge part of this is that some classes benefit immensely and some classes benefit almost not at all. Those classes that did benefit are way better for it, and so to maintain balance it's really hard to give them anything that makes them better in the way of tomes. It's the same way for gear; tanks and healers benefit immensely from gear, rogues and int casters not so much. Not to mention the majority of content was balanced pre-tomes, so tomes really did a number on old-world balance. When I started playing I was quoted that a decent player could get an AA every 45 minutes. Good xp for me now is 3-4% tome per hour.
Also, while tomes are very powerful, they are also not as interesting as tomes should be. Wouldn't you rather that power come from somewhere more fun?
Quelian
Dalayan Adventurer
You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not arguing the 5%. You say -5% needed to happen. I'm good with that.
What I'm concerned about is not replacing the lost exp with something. This may not be a commercial MMO but players still put hours and hours into their characters. This change effectively invalidates 25 hours of work if your exp rates are to be believed.
Yes I would rather power came from somewhere more "fun" (We'll leave "fun" as an abstract. Primals seem pretty fun.) If that's all this really was done for, there's no reason not to refund the exp. Let the people who have done all the work for tome V get their exp shunted into a different, shiny ikisith ability. Then, remove tome 5 from the game. That way you get the 5% reduction the dev team needs and you get players enjoying new toys and too busy to complain.
What I'm concerned about is not replacing the lost exp with something. This may not be a commercial MMO but players still put hours and hours into their characters. This change effectively invalidates 25 hours of work if your exp rates are to be believed.
Yes I would rather power came from somewhere more "fun" (We'll leave "fun" as an abstract. Primals seem pretty fun.) If that's all this really was done for, there's no reason not to refund the exp. Let the people who have done all the work for tome V get their exp shunted into a different, shiny ikisith ability. Then, remove tome 5 from the game. That way you get the 5% reduction the dev team needs and you get players enjoying new toys and too busy to complain.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
No EXP was lost, it still takes the same amount of exp to complete the tomes. Those same players would have still done the grind if it was 20% from the beginning.
Quelian
Dalayan Adventurer
The nerf basically removes tome five and extends the treadmills for tomes 1-4. You lost exp.
I was a community rep for VG for a while. We had to nerf stuff all the time. Players usually understand if you just explain, as long as you make an effort to soften the blow. Hell cyzaine did a great job with that post.
However, from the perspective of someone who's done intermediary work between players and devs before, I would have reccomended pulling tome V altogether and just refunding the exp to the players that had it partially completed, using either the fame point system or a flag for a NPC hail to give the exp back as soon as players were ready to get a boost to their next tome.
This way, you've taken a little bit from the people at the extreme high end. This group would be the problem group. Clearly people under codex 4 aren't causing problems, or they'd have nerfed the % more. You've left the larger part of the high end unaffected. You've given the ones that had to be cut down a little something in return for their efforts rather than just up and cutting their damage by 5%.
You get effectively the same result, as far as the developer side is concerned. You get far less widespread hurt among the players. In fact, you've shortened the tome treadmill a little bit. Little considerations like these make all the difference.
I was a community rep for VG for a while. We had to nerf stuff all the time. Players usually understand if you just explain, as long as you make an effort to soften the blow. Hell cyzaine did a great job with that post.
However, from the perspective of someone who's done intermediary work between players and devs before, I would have reccomended pulling tome V altogether and just refunding the exp to the players that had it partially completed, using either the fame point system or a flag for a NPC hail to give the exp back as soon as players were ready to get a boost to their next tome.
This way, you've taken a little bit from the people at the extreme high end. This group would be the problem group. Clearly people under codex 4 aren't causing problems, or they'd have nerfed the % more. You've left the larger part of the high end unaffected. You've given the ones that had to be cut down a little something in return for their efforts rather than just up and cutting their damage by 5%.
You get effectively the same result, as far as the developer side is concerned. You get far less widespread hurt among the players. In fact, you've shortened the tome treadmill a little bit. Little considerations like these make all the difference.
Quelian
Dalayan Adventurer
I'll try restating this again. You had 5 tomes before. You still have 5 tomes but now they're basically the same as 4 tomes before. You've put the same exp in for a lesser amount of benefit. You lost something you paid exp for, and you're not getting it back.
Effectively, relative to pre patch, a person with 5 tomes is now equivalent to what would have been 4 tomes pre patch. If I were someone with 5 complete tomes, it'd sure feel like I lost all the work I put into tome 5.
Mechanically, the amount of exp a tome requires is arbitrary. You must kill 11ty billion snow moose to get more power. I see no reason why they didn't just pull tome 5. Mechanically it's the same thing in the end. Then they could give that experience back to those who had it and then everyone with 4 or less tomes didn't really get nerfed, and those with 5 tomes got nerfed but got other cool stuff instead.
Effectively, relative to pre patch, a person with 5 tomes is now equivalent to what would have been 4 tomes pre patch. If I were someone with 5 complete tomes, it'd sure feel like I lost all the work I put into tome 5.
Mechanically, the amount of exp a tome requires is arbitrary. You must kill 11ty billion snow moose to get more power. I see no reason why they didn't just pull tome 5. Mechanically it's the same thing in the end. Then they could give that experience back to those who had it and then everyone with 4 or less tomes didn't really get nerfed, and those with 5 tomes got nerfed but got other cool stuff instead.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Wrong. Very wrong.
You can buy the standard ikisith tomes from other players if you cant kill the content. The prices will eventually drop considering the volume 1's seem to be a low chance world drop off anything.
I've seen atleast 3.badposter said:
Oh you mean the quest you need to do to progress in the main quest and certain raid content, not the one you can do solo at level 55 to go to ikisith? Sorry pal your wrong. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and I suggest you stop posting bad info.mrbad said:
I might be wrong on that last part, I am somewhat confused as to what you meant and I'm also unaware if there is a prerequisite of doing the group version of fury to be able to translate tomes.
