I would love this!
NPC Buff Casters
- Thread starter Waldoff
- Start date
I would love this!
Does putting the class buffer in the class guild provide incentive to a good/neutral alignment? When I think of buff loading, my first thoughts are usually cleric/druid for hp, and I don't know too many cleric or druid guilds that will welcome an evil aligned SK or necromancer with open arms.
not fair imo to class's who dont get relics or ancients, a idea on this would be and yes here comes a ntoher time sink for people but hand in relics to said nps to gain there Relic/ancinet buffs from the npc its self.
Yeah, I kinda hate how my post came off as one of the "upper tier people need giant rewards and conveniences at all times" posts but I think if NPC buffs are on the table, why not make them be the best available? To do away with wasted minutes of buffbot loading and camping, its gotta be relic aego, JB, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that I changed my mind about making a difference in criterion for getting these better buffs from an NPC. I apologize to players who also want relic buffs and felt slighted by my earlier suggestion.
you really didnt come off like that but, i mean there has be some kind work/reward for getting the BEST buffs in game from a vendor imo it would be to turn in relics/ancients to unlock these buffs. IE cleirc has 2 buffs from relic 1 is self and 1 is RAEGO, so in theory every person (or 1 group memeber) would need to turn in a relic to said npc for access to this choice
I am very weary of adding relic buffs to the possible future buffbots. I think that might be a step too far toward replacing high end buff classes, and buffbots, when I hope to tailor this change towards helping lower levels and newer 65s.
I am hoping to allow the Cleric-Warrior duo who just hit 65 be able to nab a KEI and haste without having to beg long established players. I am not really focusing on helping those long established players be full-buffed more easily. I also would be worried of lessening the power of the relatively hard to complete relic spells.
I would not be completely against discussion of adding relics in the future if the system is put in and is successful, but for release I think sticking with non relics is the better bet.
I am hoping to allow the Cleric-Warrior duo who just hit 65 be able to nab a KEI and haste without having to beg long established players. I am not really focusing on helping those long established players be full-buffed more easily. I also would be worried of lessening the power of the relatively hard to complete relic spells.
I would not be completely against discussion of adding relics in the future if the system is put in and is successful, but for release I think sticking with non relics is the better bet.
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I totally agree with adding longer duration to the lower level buffs, and to some higher level buffs. (I never really got that my pally can cast 1 SSS and it lasts at least twice as long as Heroic Bond, the AC buffs, group resist magic, and group invigor.)
If the goal is to help lower level players and newer 65 players, it might be easier to take a more simple approach then having a buff vendor at each guild hall casting that classes buffs. What I mean is, the only really 'game changing' buffs for xp content are mana regen and haste. Maybe HP/AC buffs, DS, and pet weapons to a smaller extent.
You could have the wizards next to every MoP entrance take donations and cast 3 generic spells that scale with the recipient level:
Group SB Mana Regen (Enchanter type line of buffs)
Group SB Haste (Enchanter type line of buffs)
Group SB HP/AC (Cleric type line of buffs)
If you really want to get crazy, you can add:
Group Summon pet haste item + 2 weapons (mage type line of buffs)
Group SB DS (Mage type line of buffs)
I added SB to the discussion because most lower levels and new people die a lot. It sucks to buff and then die getting to an XP zone just to lose the buffs. I think that if the purchased buffs are SB, then they can't be as strong as relics because you don't want to replace a class that worked really hard to get these types of spells. Along that line, I think these buffs should be 1 'step' below the best spell an enchanter/cleric/etc. can cast on that level recipient. You still want a RL person playing to be wanted in the group because they offer more than the purchased buffs.
Obviously, if the goal is to get rid of buff bots, the above is not the solution.
Personal note: At 65, with the above in place and depending on price, I would probably use the buff vendors instead of logging in bots because I can get started more quickly.
If the goal is to help lower level players and newer 65 players, it might be easier to take a more simple approach then having a buff vendor at each guild hall casting that classes buffs. What I mean is, the only really 'game changing' buffs for xp content are mana regen and haste. Maybe HP/AC buffs, DS, and pet weapons to a smaller extent.
You could have the wizards next to every MoP entrance take donations and cast 3 generic spells that scale with the recipient level:
Group SB Mana Regen (Enchanter type line of buffs)
Group SB Haste (Enchanter type line of buffs)
Group SB HP/AC (Cleric type line of buffs)
If you really want to get crazy, you can add:
Group Summon pet haste item + 2 weapons (mage type line of buffs)
Group SB DS (Mage type line of buffs)
I added SB to the discussion because most lower levels and new people die a lot. It sucks to buff and then die getting to an XP zone just to lose the buffs. I think that if the purchased buffs are SB, then they can't be as strong as relics because you don't want to replace a class that worked really hard to get these types of spells. Along that line, I think these buffs should be 1 'step' below the best spell an enchanter/cleric/etc. can cast on that level recipient. You still want a RL person playing to be wanted in the group because they offer more than the purchased buffs.
Obviously, if the goal is to get rid of buff bots, the above is not the solution.
Personal note: At 65, with the above in place and depending on price, I would probably use the buff vendors instead of logging in bots because I can get started more quickly.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
Every true buff in the game should just have Duration: 3600 ticks (6 hours) base.
I am crazy about my buff order because OCD Juff told me I wasn't cool unless I knew what buffs I had and didn't have within seconds.
If there was a way to set up so specific buffs would always land in the same buff slot it would truly be amazing. This is rather off topic however.
My buff order as a ranger is always THIS:
1) Blessing of the Combine Duration: 450 ticks (1 hour, 45 minutes)
2) Runic: Quiver of the Legion 1800 ticks (3 hours)
3) Call of the Predator 750 ticks (1 hour, 15 minutes)
4) Relic: Gift of Aegolism Duration: 2400 ticks (4 hours)
5) Spiritual Vigor 1500 ticks (2 hours, 30 minutes)
6) Relic: Ancestral Focus 1800 ticks (3 hours)
7) Relic: Jayla's Boon 1800 ticks (3 hours)
8) Glory of Enthann 600 ticks (1 hour)
9) Grim Aura 270 ticks (27 minutes)
IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE #1: Glory of Enthann AE radius: 50 is a terrible problem with the buff. Why is this spell set to such a low radius. Why do different buffs even have different Spell radius set in the first place? Call of the Predator has an AE radius of 150 when Relic: Gift of Aegolism, Relic: Ancestral Focus and Relic: Jayla's Boon only has one of 100? Spiritual Vigor rocking that AE radius of 250...
It would be nice if all buffs used in a raid were more similar to one another. Setting the AE radius of all these buffs to 250 would be a very easy and nice change to the game. There would be a lot less people asking for GoE seconds after the Enchanter casted it for the third time since the last wipe.
IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE #2: I have made two posts about this already, here, not sure why this hasn't be fixed yet. However all major buffs should have their Recharge time (Recast Time) be set to Instant (0.0). There is currently six that I know of that should be changed:
1) Call of the Predator
2) Spirit of Bih`Li
3) Relic: Ward of Nature
4) Dead Men Floating
5) Share Form of the Great Wolf
6) Talisman of the Niklothar
If there is a reason that these buffs have their recharge timer still left on them it would be nice to know what the reasoning is behind it. Thanks.
OK, let me get back to the main topic "Every true buff in the game should just have Duration: 3600 ticks (6 hours) base." As you can see I have nine buffs on me at all times 100% of the time I am playing this game. Clearly 6 left over buff spaces are used differently for different fights I am going to do. However, No mater if I am going to go off and solo, duo, group exp, or Raid I will have these 9 buffs on me, mostly in that order, even if I am just sitting in Sadri.
As you can see every buff out of the 9 has a wildly different duration, other then three that have 1800 ticks (3 hours).
First let me get into the two "clicky" buffs I have up 100% of the time.
Let me start off with Blessing of the Combine, I guess you can also add Shield of the Combine into the mix also (I forget the last time I have used this buff even though I have my combine legs in my bag 100% of the time). There is basically no real reason this buff should NOT just have a infinite duration. I don't even know why I should explain this point any more. Any duration you put on this buff just makes the player randomly put on their BP from their bag and wait 6 seconds till the buff lands then go back to playing the game like normal.
The very best idea would be to further the quest so you can Combine (haha) the Combine Chest and Legs into one item. I am sure this idea has already been thought about since "Combine Supremacy" buff is in the game.
Why did this never go in?
I think giving your BP and Legs to a Vaporous Projection along with The Last Seal of the Custodian (a drop off The Custodian in Prison of Admyrrza) would be an logical option for this upgrade.
This single buff should also have an "infinate" duration or just 3600 ticks (6 hours) base.
Until this quest is added to the game, and even after, Blessing of the Combine and Shield of the Combine duration should be upped to 3600 ticks (6 hours) base or just be made "forever" if that is even possible.
The next "clicky" I have up 100% of the time is Grim Aura. The item I use to get this buff is Tainted Pirahna Eye the cast time is Instant and you can cast it from your inventory. This item is quite easy to get. There is also Blackwatcher's Hatred from Cmal 3 off the blackwatchers. The only "down-side" about this is you have to put it in your face slot to buff yourself. I use this item just because I get the same ATK I would get from Firefist (a self buff any ranger can cast since level 22) however it has a longer duration, it saves me a spell gem, and it has a faster cast time.
Basically in a nut shell I think every single self buff in the game should have a duration of 3600 ticks (6 hours). This would be buffs like Grim Aura, Firefist, Archaic: Avatar of Mercy or Vessel of Althuna, Relic: High Priest's Bulwark, Runic: Quiver of the Legion, and Soul Shroud. I know I have forgot a ton but they are all the same. There is really no reason these buffs should just not be "set it and forget it" buffs.
Next, Let's talk about Call of the Predator. Call of the Predator is the only "raid buff" rangers get in the game. They also get the AA "Soulbond" the funny thing is.. Call of the Predator has such a laughably short duration that unless a ranger has a duration increment item then the buff will wear off of his raid before Soulbond even pops again. If this buff has the duration of 3600 ticks (6 hours) rangers will cast it less times in a raid and that with the new /cm buffblock command the world of SoD would truly be a better place. I would also like to point out that Spiritual Vigor use to have the same duration as Call of the Predator but was changed to have a much longer duration time. Let spread this love around. Thanks.
This Post is getting far too long but I really don't see a reason why clerics relic raid buff is longer then all the other classes relic raid buff. I think they should all be upped to Duration: 3600 ticks (6 hours) or at least the other none cleric relic buffs should be put on par and be upped to 2400 ticks (4 hours).
Sorry this post is so long. I truly hope at least one person will read it. I think these buff changes would make the game a lot more enjoyable, as well as being quite easy fixes.
To comment on the original post: Buff NPC's could only help lessen the time of one of the tedious parts of SoD. This can only be looked at as a positive over all. Thanks for making the game more enjoyable. I hope there is more changes like this in the future.
EDIT: Daffie's post above mine talking about DS got me thinking.
I think that Druid's and Mage's Relic Damage shield buffs are too similar to one another. 90% of the time People just use Mage DS because It last longer.
A long fix to this is give one class a different relic all together.
A quick fix to this is make both Relic: Cupola of Incineration and Relic: Legacy of Blades:
Both have the same Duration (3600 ticks (6 hours)).
Both have a Damage Shield of 45
Cupola of Incineration could Increase Resist Fire by 40 (same as it does now)
Legacy of Blades could Increase Poison by 40 (this would make it so raids and or groups would want to use this on poison heavy fights)
Cupola of Incineration could Increase Spell and DoT damage by 1%
Legacy of Blades could Increase Healing and Melee damage by 1%
This would make the buff more desirable for people in the raid other then tanks.
Just a thought.
I am crazy about my buff order because OCD Juff told me I wasn't cool unless I knew what buffs I had and didn't have within seconds.
If there was a way to set up so specific buffs would always land in the same buff slot it would truly be amazing. This is rather off topic however.
My buff order as a ranger is always THIS:
1) Blessing of the Combine Duration: 450 ticks (1 hour, 45 minutes)
2) Runic: Quiver of the Legion 1800 ticks (3 hours)
3) Call of the Predator 750 ticks (1 hour, 15 minutes)
4) Relic: Gift of Aegolism Duration: 2400 ticks (4 hours)
5) Spiritual Vigor 1500 ticks (2 hours, 30 minutes)
6) Relic: Ancestral Focus 1800 ticks (3 hours)
7) Relic: Jayla's Boon 1800 ticks (3 hours)
8) Glory of Enthann 600 ticks (1 hour)
9) Grim Aura 270 ticks (27 minutes)
IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE #1: Glory of Enthann AE radius: 50 is a terrible problem with the buff. Why is this spell set to such a low radius. Why do different buffs even have different Spell radius set in the first place? Call of the Predator has an AE radius of 150 when Relic: Gift of Aegolism, Relic: Ancestral Focus and Relic: Jayla's Boon only has one of 100? Spiritual Vigor rocking that AE radius of 250...
It would be nice if all buffs used in a raid were more similar to one another. Setting the AE radius of all these buffs to 250 would be a very easy and nice change to the game. There would be a lot less people asking for GoE seconds after the Enchanter casted it for the third time since the last wipe.
IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE #2: I have made two posts about this already, here, not sure why this hasn't be fixed yet. However all major buffs should have their Recharge time (Recast Time) be set to Instant (0.0). There is currently six that I know of that should be changed:
1) Call of the Predator
2) Spirit of Bih`Li
3) Relic: Ward of Nature
4) Dead Men Floating
5) Share Form of the Great Wolf
6) Talisman of the Niklothar
If there is a reason that these buffs have their recharge timer still left on them it would be nice to know what the reasoning is behind it. Thanks.
OK, let me get back to the main topic "Every true buff in the game should just have Duration: 3600 ticks (6 hours) base." As you can see I have nine buffs on me at all times 100% of the time I am playing this game. Clearly 6 left over buff spaces are used differently for different fights I am going to do. However, No mater if I am going to go off and solo, duo, group exp, or Raid I will have these 9 buffs on me, mostly in that order, even if I am just sitting in Sadri.
As you can see every buff out of the 9 has a wildly different duration, other then three that have 1800 ticks (3 hours).
First let me get into the two "clicky" buffs I have up 100% of the time.
Let me start off with Blessing of the Combine, I guess you can also add Shield of the Combine into the mix also (I forget the last time I have used this buff even though I have my combine legs in my bag 100% of the time). There is basically no real reason this buff should NOT just have a infinite duration. I don't even know why I should explain this point any more. Any duration you put on this buff just makes the player randomly put on their BP from their bag and wait 6 seconds till the buff lands then go back to playing the game like normal.
The very best idea would be to further the quest so you can Combine (haha) the Combine Chest and Legs into one item. I am sure this idea has already been thought about since "Combine Supremacy" buff is in the game.
Why did this never go in?
I think giving your BP and Legs to a Vaporous Projection along with The Last Seal of the Custodian (a drop off The Custodian in Prison of Admyrrza) would be an logical option for this upgrade.
This single buff should also have an "infinate" duration or just 3600 ticks (6 hours) base.
Until this quest is added to the game, and even after, Blessing of the Combine and Shield of the Combine duration should be upped to 3600 ticks (6 hours) base or just be made "forever" if that is even possible.
The next "clicky" I have up 100% of the time is Grim Aura. The item I use to get this buff is Tainted Pirahna Eye the cast time is Instant and you can cast it from your inventory. This item is quite easy to get. There is also Blackwatcher's Hatred from Cmal 3 off the blackwatchers. The only "down-side" about this is you have to put it in your face slot to buff yourself. I use this item just because I get the same ATK I would get from Firefist (a self buff any ranger can cast since level 22) however it has a longer duration, it saves me a spell gem, and it has a faster cast time.
Basically in a nut shell I think every single self buff in the game should have a duration of 3600 ticks (6 hours). This would be buffs like Grim Aura, Firefist, Archaic: Avatar of Mercy or Vessel of Althuna, Relic: High Priest's Bulwark, Runic: Quiver of the Legion, and Soul Shroud. I know I have forgot a ton but they are all the same. There is really no reason these buffs should just not be "set it and forget it" buffs.
Next, Let's talk about Call of the Predator. Call of the Predator is the only "raid buff" rangers get in the game. They also get the AA "Soulbond" the funny thing is.. Call of the Predator has such a laughably short duration that unless a ranger has a duration increment item then the buff will wear off of his raid before Soulbond even pops again. If this buff has the duration of 3600 ticks (6 hours) rangers will cast it less times in a raid and that with the new /cm buffblock command the world of SoD would truly be a better place. I would also like to point out that Spiritual Vigor use to have the same duration as Call of the Predator but was changed to have a much longer duration time. Let spread this love around. Thanks.
This Post is getting far too long but I really don't see a reason why clerics relic raid buff is longer then all the other classes relic raid buff. I think they should all be upped to Duration: 3600 ticks (6 hours) or at least the other none cleric relic buffs should be put on par and be upped to 2400 ticks (4 hours).
Sorry this post is so long. I truly hope at least one person will read it. I think these buff changes would make the game a lot more enjoyable, as well as being quite easy fixes.
To comment on the original post: Buff NPC's could only help lessen the time of one of the tedious parts of SoD. This can only be looked at as a positive over all. Thanks for making the game more enjoyable. I hope there is more changes like this in the future.
EDIT: Daffie's post above mine talking about DS got me thinking.
I think that Druid's and Mage's Relic Damage shield buffs are too similar to one another. 90% of the time People just use Mage DS because It last longer.
A long fix to this is give one class a different relic all together.
A quick fix to this is make both Relic: Cupola of Incineration and Relic: Legacy of Blades:
Both have the same Duration (3600 ticks (6 hours)).
Both have a Damage Shield of 45
Cupola of Incineration could Increase Resist Fire by 40 (same as it does now)
Legacy of Blades could Increase Poison by 40 (this would make it so raids and or groups would want to use this on poison heavy fights)
Cupola of Incineration could Increase Spell and DoT damage by 1%
Legacy of Blades could Increase Healing and Melee damage by 1%
This would make the buff more desirable for people in the raid other then tanks.
Just a thought.
Last edited:
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
That is really a good point. I have the same issue with Spell: Ancient: Gift of Celerity for my shaman. Even with Duration increment 4 and all his AAs, it doesn't last long enough to be SBed again after it wears off.
I feel that NPC buff bots are a good idea as long as they don't make player buffs obsolete. First off, fuck the idea of having buff bots that cast relic buffs. This game shouldn't be turned into easy mode. You should be rewarded for getting relic buffs and they should make your character more desired by having them.
The buffs that you should be able to get should always be one buff tier of spells under your level. Like assuming relic buffs are the top tier of buffs, level 65s would be able to get the end buffs like regular aegolism, focus of soul, KEI, empower, etc. There would be a lot of work to figure out the level range for each buff but it would provide a nice scaling mechanism. If you can't find a player to group with or give you the buff, you could at least get the next one below it.
Also why does every buff have to be easy to get? Not every town has to be as good as one another as far as buff bot npcs go.
The buffs that you should be able to get should always be one buff tier of spells under your level. Like assuming relic buffs are the top tier of buffs, level 65s would be able to get the end buffs like regular aegolism, focus of soul, KEI, empower, etc. There would be a lot of work to figure out the level range for each buff but it would provide a nice scaling mechanism. If you can't find a player to group with or give you the buff, you could at least get the next one below it.
Also why does every buff have to be easy to get? Not every town has to be as good as one another as far as buff bot npcs go.
100% agree with your post
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
I could be way out in left field here, but what about having those class guilds sell consumable clicker versions of the buffs instead of casting the actual buff, or possibly as an option?
That way the new-guy duo could grab a few sets of buffs before he sets off on the epic trek to the Miels or wherever he's going to grind and if he dies he can zip back in, click his clickers and get right back to work. It would reduce some of the tedium of traveling back and forth and the rage-logs from silly wipes: "Oh HELL NO I'm not going CLEAR back to Athica to get that buff again....screw this I'm playing DotA for the rest of the night."
It would bring a little bit of player interaction into the NPC buff-bot game. "Hey, I'll go grab Aego scrolls for the group, you go grab some Empower scrolls....Timmy you go buy the SSS scrolls those assholes hate me."
You still have a balancing factor against buffing-out...instead of time you have bag slots to think about. Especially if each buff scroll is non-stacking etc. Originally I thought "Hey, there should be a quested (or w/e) static clicker that you recharge with plat at the class guilds, that'd be neat." But it smelled funny.
Some possible cons:
Players re-selling buffs for stupid prices to unsuspecting newbies.
Players making buff-scroll mules to park in dungeons with massive supplies of scrolls for long-term use (or for selling to unsuspecting newbies at truly stupid prices).
My ideas are usually god-awful.
That way the new-guy duo could grab a few sets of buffs before he sets off on the epic trek to the Miels or wherever he's going to grind and if he dies he can zip back in, click his clickers and get right back to work. It would reduce some of the tedium of traveling back and forth and the rage-logs from silly wipes: "Oh HELL NO I'm not going CLEAR back to Athica to get that buff again....screw this I'm playing DotA for the rest of the night."
It would bring a little bit of player interaction into the NPC buff-bot game. "Hey, I'll go grab Aego scrolls for the group, you go grab some Empower scrolls....Timmy you go buy the SSS scrolls those assholes hate me."
You still have a balancing factor against buffing-out...instead of time you have bag slots to think about. Especially if each buff scroll is non-stacking etc. Originally I thought "Hey, there should be a quested (or w/e) static clicker that you recharge with plat at the class guilds, that'd be neat." But it smelled funny.
Some possible cons:
Players re-selling buffs for stupid prices to unsuspecting newbies.
Players making buff-scroll mules to park in dungeons with massive supplies of scrolls for long-term use (or for selling to unsuspecting newbies at truly stupid prices).
My ideas are usually god-awful.
Unsuspecting newbies usually won't have the pp for stupid prices. Also, maybe make them no rent?
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
How about lore instead of no rent.
Guess it depends on whether the powers that be would be cooler with stockpiling them or being able to move them between chars. Lore would make everyone involved have to go get their own and use a bunch of bag space instead of one person being able to grab enough for a group. No rent would keep people from paying much for them from players, and keep people from having zone supply-bots. I guess it depends on what people would see as an actual problem, but tbh given the current state, I think almost anyone (playerwise) would be happy with either version. A case might be made (and may have been previously mentioned) that this would take away from buffing classes, but if they were no rent, that would only matter if people think they actually get groups because of their buffs as a major factor. /shrug
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I would have used them for KEI last night if they were in game!
I would like to express that I believe No Rent would be bad because it is penalizing someone who buys the buff, doesn't cast it, but then has to log for RL. (I think this situation exactly matches the demographic, new/casual players, to whom these buffs may appeal.)
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
Agreed on not making them No Rent...I'd considered that and then thought, what happens when someone has to log for IRL time or their connection crashes/server goes down/whatever. Making them Lore and rechargeable would allow for limited stockpiling and grant the best of both worlds.
Re: Trivializing or side-lining "buffing classes"....that would be the bestest thing ever. Casting buffs isn't fun, doesn't make you feel like an occult dragonslaying superhero, and other than the few folks who run around randomly buffing strangers for personal gratification and warm-fuzzies...it's pretty ugh.
I'd even go so far as to say that longer-term buffs being either 1) hardcoded in some fashion or 2) eliminated and compensated for via rebalancing or something like a tome that gives you a non-stacking stat increase equal to the buff, etc would be one of the best things to ever happen to SoD. Instead of a spellbook full of every buff in the world and recasting b/c of wipes/clicks/overwrites/rangers, those classes could be given new cool things to do. Even if those new cool things include buffing (with short duration cool-stuff buffs and effects instead of "HEY STATS!")
EDIT: Also 100pp is rediculously high.
Re: Trivializing or side-lining "buffing classes"....that would be the bestest thing ever. Casting buffs isn't fun, doesn't make you feel like an occult dragonslaying superhero, and other than the few folks who run around randomly buffing strangers for personal gratification and warm-fuzzies...it's pretty ugh.
I'd even go so far as to say that longer-term buffs being either 1) hardcoded in some fashion or 2) eliminated and compensated for via rebalancing or something like a tome that gives you a non-stacking stat increase equal to the buff, etc would be one of the best things to ever happen to SoD. Instead of a spellbook full of every buff in the world and recasting b/c of wipes/clicks/overwrites/rangers, those classes could be given new cool things to do. Even if those new cool things include buffing (with short duration cool-stuff buffs and effects instead of "HEY STATS!")
EDIT: Also 100pp is rediculously high.