Paladin Runic

[Otcho]

having 38% instead of 30% when dealing with 7000 damage aoes is pretty nice, I am glad you are incapable of understanding that you have acquired a new way of helping the raid and that because druids/shamans have better group hot yours is clearly useless. glad we got this over with syduck:

 

[Miffy]

having 38% instead of 30% when dealing with 7000 damage aoes is pretty nice, I am glad you are incapable of understanding that you have acquired a new way of helping the raid and that because druids/shamans have better group hot yours is clearly useless. glad we got this over with syduck:

If Ikisith is nothing but unresistable 7k AEs than woohoo this is great, if thats what you are telling me than I agree with you. I am not arguing that its useless I am arguing that it does not expand the class in the ways that Runics for other classes do. It is not enough of a change to the original GHoT to make it a different but better in one type of situation spell.

 

[Untasid]

having 38% instead of 30% when dealing with 7000 damage aoes is pretty nice, I am glad you are incapable of understanding that you have acquired a new way of helping the raid and that because druids/shamans have better group hot yours is clearly useless. glad we got this over with syduck:

nobody is arguing the usefulness of spell dmg mitigation on certain fights..i think miffane's main problem with this spell is that it isnt a complete and total upgrade in all scenarios to the previous spell in the line and since this spell is mostly situational it's less useful than other classes runics which are all pretty awesome. as it is this spell owns in certain fights but would hardly be used anywhere else..if that's the intent (which it probably is) then awesome

edit. NM read above

 

[Otcho]

When did anybody ever say runics are intended to vastly change every class, even though this is the case for some, you seem to have some mental barrier about how you can now heal the entire raid at once and alleviate the stress on healer mana, I would say you have had a significant increase from this.


As for all runics being pretty awesome, you're retarded.

 

[Untasid]

you can now heal the entire raid at once and alleviate the stress on healer mana.

so are we supposed to believe that with this new, HIGHLY MANA INEFFICIENT spell that paladins are now able to heal the entire raid for any significant duration? if your main argument is that paladins can now keep an entire raid up w/ this spell you're better off using the old, more hp/mana efficient hot and healing for more total hp / longer duration. this spell will run a pally oom in like 8 or 9 casts which if u consider a duration of 18 sec, that's like a 2.5 minutes worth of healing

 

[Otcho]

so are we supposed to believe that with this new, HIGHLY MANA INEFFICIENT spell that paladins are now able to heal the entire raid for any significant duration?

Yes

 

[Obscenitor]

so are we supposed to believe that with this new, HIGHLY MANA INEFFICIENT spell that paladins are now able to heal the entire raid for any significant duration? if your main argument is that paladins can now keep an entire raid up w/ this spell you're better off using the old, more hp/mana efficient hot and healing for more total hp / longer duration. this spell will run a pally oom in like 8 or 9 casts which if u consider a duration of 18 sec, that's like a 2.5 minutes worth of healing

Because mana efficiency is the Only reason to Ever use a spell...

syduck:

 

[Otcho]

Because mana efficiency is the Only reason to Ever use a spell...

syduck:

Hey, listen here man. I cast my level 49 lifetap on my shadowknight all the time always because this is how it is in the HIGH END

 

[Untasid]

hey i said that i thought this spell was awesome in my op =0

 

[Miffy]

As for all runics being pretty awesome, you're retarded.

And you're constructive (sarcasm)

Because mana efficiency is the Only reason to Ever use a spell...

syduck:

No... but when other runics are plenty mana efficient why is this one so different?

 

[Glamrin]

Paladin
Runic: Protective Lustration
cast time: 1.75 seconds
780 mana cost
390hp group HoT (4 ticks)
8% spell damage reduc

Shaman
Runic: Spiritual Attuning
cast time: 6 seconds
850 mana cost
600hp GHoT (4 ticks)
50% snare
20% slow

So yes, the high mana cost vs size of the hot might make this spell situational, not something you would use all the time in every single situation. But still 8% less dmg from all spells can be pretty damn good, especially since this can be cast on tankgroup and all characters that are tanking, ie not only useful for mobs that ae.
As a comparison the shaman spell also has a great hindrance. Sure it costs more mana, but heals for more per manapoint spent, but still, the 50% snare and 20% slow component pretty much prevents the shaman from using this in tankgroup (ouch on agro) or in melee group (ouch on dps). Spamming it in either of these groups would make you not so popular. This reduces its usability to caster group or life and death type of situations. Casting this spell in an exp group might not be very popular either, it would definitely not be something you would want to spam if you have a tank that depends on melee for agro, or a melee class at all in group. Even with these limitations from what I've seen of it it appears to be an awesome spell.

If using paladin spell in a groupscenario, you might not be using it during trashfights, but if I was on the paladin I would definitely load it up for most namedfights if I had a weak healer or the encounter was not trivial. In a group with a druid + shaman for healing or only one of those, a 140base heal difference (a 56% increase from ethereal) on entire group each tick is huge and for one short fight, the mana shouldnt be an issue.

Sure, the paladin spell is situational and not for every situation, but it's still a really really good spell for many encounters. If it wont stack with the shaman spell, that isnt really a problem, because the paladin will likely be in tank group while the shaman will be knocked over to the caster group, meaning these spells wont collide anyways. When this isn't the case, its likely that the shaman is busy slowing and single target healing a tank.

1.75 seconds isnt a lot of time for casting a spell that heals group for 1560 base dmg + gives an 8% decrease to all incoming spelldmg, this is a lot for a class that isnt considered a healingclass, in fact its almost as much base as shaman relic heal, likely a lot more when taking the 8% into account. I haven't used this spell myself yet, but from the stats of it I dont understand why you arent thrilled over it.

 

[Miffy]

Well the only problem with your example is that you prolly want the Best HoT on your tank/tanks, this would be cleric HoT/GHoT. Unless the encounter is constant irresistible 4k dmg AE's 8% does not make up for the superior healing of healer HoTs. I would think the best candidate for the paladin runic would be the caster group, keep them alive longer and protect the weakest group from spell damage, but as you have said the shaman spell takes care of this role, as does the druid runic, which is just amazing. Now these other two GHoTs despite their situational use have good hp to mana ratios. The problem with the paladin runic is that it is not better in any particular situation, especially on raids. 8% spell damage reduction means...
on a 2K nuke: 160hp
on a 3k nuke: 240hp

so, before the 3k mark its not really out performing even in its "situation" also, its only a benefit if the spells are not being resisted. The simple fact that the other classes HoTs heal more damage from ANY source make them less situational. I just want the paladin HoT to be better at its niche of reducing spell damage. If it was reducing 15-20% while its on then there would be a real reason to communicate and not overwrite it with other greater HP HoT's.

 

[Otcho]

Do you seriously not understand there are situations where those *superior hots* will not be casted because the damage is so intense it cannot be done?

 

[Miffy]

Do you seriously not understand that there is 95% of the rest of the time where this spell is not as useful. All I am arguing is that in those dire times make this spell more beneficial so as it is in line with its mana cost. Even if it had 20% spell dam reduc it would still be less useful in all ways on any fight where there are not AE's AND those AE's can't be resisted and ignored. Also, if your argument is that healers are too busy healing to GHoT, there are just as many times where the paladin is too busy tanking, agroing, kiting etc to GHoT so your point is invalid.

 

[Otcho]

Also, if your argument is that healers are too busy healing to GHoT, there are just as many times where the paladin is too busy tanking, agroing, kiting etc to GHoT so your point is invalid.

I'd actually like to argue that there aren't and that you can.

 

[Miffy]

Then your argument becomes, a paladin is not needed, bring another healer. And further proves my point.

 

[Otcho]

Then your argument becomes, a paladin is not needed, bring another healer. And further proves my point.

Neither knight is needed, the point is bringing one offers advantages in certain fights. You seem to have some problem understanding how good your class is or better yet that you can be very good.

 

[Miffy]

This thread is about the runic spell, not about over all class balance of the game. Yes I understand paladins are a good class but you are moving this thread off of the topic, and not adding anything constructive. Have you used the spell? Have you mained a paladin? So, why do you seem to know so much more about the class, and more importantly this spell and how it affects the class than I do?

 

[Otcho]

This thread is about the runic spell, not about over all class balance of the game. Yes I understand paladins are a good class but you are moving this thread off of the topic, and not adding anything constructive. Have you used the spell? Have you mained a paladin? So, why do you seem to know so much more about the class, and more importantly this spell and how it affects the class than I do?

Used the spell: No, but I know what it does and how to apply it
Mained the class: Yes

I am not trying to detract from the conversation but so far it seems everyone seems to concur that this spell is good except you, thus why I keep suggesting that you are doing it wrong.

 

[Manguadi]

I think your play-style arguments make any substantive or comparative arguments invalid. You are not playing this game right if what you've described is how you believe healing and tanking are supposed to work.

for reference:

You don't heal because you can replace a cleric or because you're as good as a druid; you heal to prevent the cleric from having to use gheal and come off the MT, or you patch the lowest person in the group to extend the time to the next gheal.