Policy Questions Thread

[Salarus]

Really easy solution: Don't allow PUG's in zones where you need flags or keys.

Just for reference: when AoE got booted from IP we had 5 different guilds there, granted, 13 of the toons were AoE (who as a guild, had not killed taesh despite that many individuals and characters in teh guild had.) I asked as we were being booted "what would constitue enough out of guild characters to make this a pickup raid" I was told that I can't even think about doing it, because it's violating the spirit of the rules.

 

[Ulandx]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.
I would like to know if it is within the rule to completly dominate *every* single named in an entire
dungeon for *very* extended periods of time (currently the guy is there for 10 hours) and on
a daily bases by a single player (most likely boxxing).,so happening for weeks now in Crystal Caverns.
If not would it be appropriate to petition?

 

[Rorne]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.
I would like to know if it is within the rule to completly dominate *every* single named in an entire
dungeon for *very* extended periods of time (currently the guy is there for 10 hours) and on
a daily bases by a single player (most likely boxxing).,so happening for weeks now in Crystal Caverns.
If not would it be appropriate to petition?

Sadly there are no limits to how little of a life a player can have

 

[Allielyn]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.
I would like to know if it is within the rule to completly dominate *every* single named in an entire
dungeon for *very* extended periods of time (currently the guy is there for 10 hours) and on
a daily bases by a single player (most likely boxxing).,so happening for weeks now in Crystal Caverns.
If not would it be appropriate to petition?

Re: Named Mob rights for groups clearing an area
We don't recognize any camps in SoD, however we do recognize douchebaggery and we punish it. This one is as open-ended as your imagination can suggest. Don't be jerks. This includes (but is not limited to) the following behavior:

Triggering content scripts which you have no intention of attempting just to screw over other players, collecting event-necessary groundspawns which you have no intention of using (Hi MOTG), using higher level characters than the area is designed for to monopolize an unreasonable amount of mobs for the size of your group when there are others looking to hunt in the same area, excessive leapfrogging, pulling a named after another group kills its placeholder multiple times, etc

Without knowing the details, this is what it sounds to me like you are describing. If this continues to happen, feel free to petition. And as always, keep logs ON and take SS's of every interaction which you feel might lead to a petition.

 

[jewboo]

I was wondering how likely it is that i may be sued for playing SoD. has anyone been sued or fined for playin SoD? why or why not? i couldnt find the correct thread to post this to. thanks for reply, you can email me at [email protected]

 

[Slaariel]

0% likely, enjoy all your weed.

 

[jewboo]

will smoke one for you hardworking GM's. was hoping you might be able to explain how this isnt violating any copyright laws and such and stuff....i dunno.... tryin to get me sis to play and shes afraid of getting sued or something(she downloads music all the time off limewire,although she doesnt share files) >_< i was guessing you guys get away with doing such a great thing for the MMO world by simply taking everquest models and renaming everthing, changing all the stats and all... dunno if you make any of your own models....anyways was hoping you could elaborate ^_^

 

[robopirateninja]

we wrote all the stuff on the server you connect to, you paid for your copies of the files you use on your computer. everbody's happy

 

[sliderule]

Vendor List

anyone caught parsing the logs/farming the database/whatever to create a searchable database of the listing system will be immediately and irrevocably banned.

Is opening eqlog.txt in notepad and using CTRL-F allowed?

Is text searching my web browser cache allowed? (Assume I grep to STDOUT and don't store the results.)

Neither of these actions creates anything, they act only on text data and output only text data which is never organized nor stored. Do these actions violate the rule?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nwaij]

Is opening eqlog.txt in notepad and using CTRL-F allowed?

Log parsers are allowed. Since this is something you could do with a log parser with way less effort, I can not see a reason why it should not be allowed.

 

[sliderule]

Log parsers are allowed. Since this is something you could do with a log parser with way less effort, I can not see a reason why it should not be allowed.

I'm afraid that while log parsers are allowed, certain uses of a log parser are explicitly forbidden, namely using one

to create a searchable database of the listing system

I will wait for an official response to my questions.

 

[totillion]

So, your intent is to parse the logs by hand to create a giant, unorganized text file that you can search for listsold data.

You are saying you are going to:
1. turn on log
2. /cm listsold 25 (or whatever the max is)
3. /cm listview playername (for each playername)
4. rinse/repeat
5. add log file to your browser cache so you can ctrl-f it

I think the fact that your "database" is just a collection of logfile texts, doesn't make it legal. So, no, this doesn't sound like a good thing to do as it is just skirting the rule by questioning the definition of "creating a searchable database".

Just use http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/vendorlist/listinvdata.php. It is much faster, better and legal.

 

[sliderule]

So, your intent is to parse the logs by hand to create a giant, unorganized text file that you can search for listsold data.

You are saying you are going to:
1. turn on log
2. /cm listsold 25 (or whatever the max is)
3. /cm listview playername (for each playername)
4. rinse/repeat
5. add log file to your browser cache so you can ctrl-f it

I never said I was going to do anything, and your assumption is just white noise. It is clear that your process qualifies as scraping the listsold system (explicitly restricted), and I have no intention of doing so. I run a parser so I have the log on when I play. If I look at a couple of vendors, they will be in the log. I want to know if I'm even allowed to peek at the log file, assuming that I don't manipulate or store the data otherwise.

Step 5 doesn't even make sense -- why would I search in a web browser when I could do that in notepad, you know... like I mentioned? I ask about the browser cache because there is a vendor website, and I could text search the cache to see if anyone I have looked at is selling the thing I'm looking for.

I think the fact that your "database" is just a collection of logfile texts, doesn't make it legal. So, no, this doesn't sound like a good thing to do as it is just skirting the rule by questioning the definition of "creating a searchable database".

Easy tiger, I am not making a database. There is no "my database" as you so allege, any more than there is a database for any other player using the system completely as intended. I'm not intending to "skirt" any definition here -- the rule currently does not apply to these activities as it is written, although its intent may be to prevent them.

The problem is this: the data is there as text through ordinary usage of the system; am I allowed to perform a plain text search on it? Anyone that uses the vendor database with a caching web browser (all of them) is "creating a searchable database". So, everyone who visits the vendor website is guilty and should be banned. Same goes for anyone who ever has logging on and browsed listsold: the "database" now exists. You can't not create it, short of disabling your browser cache and disabling logging (the latter of which I already do when I browse -- at least until this question is answered.)

Just use http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/vendorlist/listinvdata.php. It is much faster, better and legal.

Yes, but after visiting the site, am I allowed to run a text search of my browser cache?

I'm not interested in the further opinion of players. I do not want this to devolve into speculation any further than it already has. I am asking the staff for an authoritative answer on two simple questions. Thanks.

 

[Tarutao]

We don't want:

(1) Any listing that involves a lot of listview spam. This causes unneeded load on the servers.

(2) Any listing other than personal private use that includes prices.

There's probably more, but using offline methods to view your personal browser cache from the "Listsold Portal" seem completely fine to me.

 

[sliderule]

Thanks for the response.

Re:

We don't want:
(2) Any listing other than personal private use that includes prices.

With respect to:

anyone caught parsing the logs/farming the database/whatever to create a searchable database of the listing system will be immediately and irrevocably banned.

This makes it seem like "a searchable database" means "a non-private database". Is it the disclosure of price information that is bannable, or is all private market recordkeeping off-limits?

 

[Tarutao]

You sound like you're looking for a loophole. Don't spam the system and don't turn it into the Bazaar. Don't put up full logs of the full "/cmd listsold NEXT" for people. The rules are intent-based not legalistic. Any loopholes you find aren't going to keep you safe if your intentions are malicious and/or Bazaar-esque.

 

[sliderule]

You sound like you're looking for a loophole. Don't spam the system and don't turn it into the Bazaar. Don't put up full logs of the full "/cmd listsold NEXT" for people. The rules are intent-based not legalistic. Any loopholes you find aren't going to keep you safe if your intentions are malicious and/or Bazaar-esque.

I'm not looking for a loophole: I just want to understand the rules so that I don't break them.

I don't know what Bazaar is, I never played live.

As I now understand it, the intent of the rule is to prevent database load (via spam / crawling), and prevent public disclosure of prices. It seems that a private database created without undue load is OK. Let me know if I'm off the mark.

Thanks again.

 

[Allielyn]

I'm not looking for a loophole: I just want to understand the rules so that I don't break them.

I don't know what Bazaar is, I never played live.

As I now understand it, the intent of the rule is to prevent database load (via spam / crawling), and prevent public disclosure of prices. It seems that a private database created without undue load is OK. Let me know if I'm off the mark.

Thanks again.

No. Making a private database with /log that you can search through with ctrl+F is not allowed, whether it creates undue load or not.

 

[sliderule]

No. Making a private database with /log that you can search through with ctrl+F is not allowed, whether it creates undue load or not.

Thanks for the clear response.

 

[kmenex]

Chat logs

Question:

Do you guys save the chat logs for the server? if so, for how long?
Also, it does associate the name, the chat text and time stamp?

I am curios how long simply because i had this fantasy of some computer analyzing the text data and finding trends or something... mehh it's those political science people and the linguistics and sociology people mostly, they have been whispering in my head.