Riposte change

heh what is this supposed to mean. also yes i am a big hit at parties

you reeled off a list of nerfs you wished to see happen and were glad to have seen happen. my comment was an ironic slight, inferring that you might be a member of the fun-police
 
you reeled off a list of nerfs you wished to see happen and were glad to have seen happen. my comment was an ironic slight, inferring that you might be a member of the fun-police

I think you need to re-read his post because that's the opposite of what he said.

Also buff Horok and blazewind gloves since I can't proc on a riposte now tia. Tanks are getting better shield block so it all balances out.
 
Spamming RK to fill a tome that improves FK? Wait, what? Though, it would be funny if this broke the fying kick AA.
Yes this will hopefully not be overlooked (the FK riposte AA, I know tomes are on the docket). Monks have a 50% chance to Flying Kick whenever they riposte, will this change fuck that up?
 
Jumbers you knew how broken this item was well over a year ago, yet you continued to abuse it on Fuwok sitting AFK in (KOS) Remnants to gain who knows how many tomes..

Why change it now? Did you finish your last tome?

From the get go here, your argument is fundamentally flawed considering I've never had Fuwok info, so whomever you remember sitting AFK in Remnants on Fuwok was not me.

That being said, the total time I was in Remnants using a character with Spirit-Harvest was Aug 24 - Sep 03 of 2012. During that time, I can assure you that I was not AFK while killing mobs as suggested.

Both before and after that period of time, the issue was discussed amongst the staff, however we weren't able to come up with an adequate solution to the problem. Making a special exception to not allow Spirit-Harvest to proc on riposte or even changing the proc rate would only have been bandaid fixes for the larger problem.

The proc rate on weapons is designed and balanced around "You will swing this weapon X times per second at a proc rate of Y". Having procs trigger on riposte completely throws off that ability to balance an item around a known number of swings per second and ends up benefitting whomever can collect the most mobs.

We're happy to hear any constructive ideas that people may have in regard to the collateral damage from this change. The main group affected by the lost hate, warriors, have already been compensated with bonus hate on every riposte. Unlike the proc chance on most weapons which is around 2-6% or so, the added hate is a 100% chance to give the warriors extra hate.
 
First to the tinfoiling:

Jumbers never had access to Fuwok, so I am not sure how people are getting that. He used the weapon in question on another warrior for the first time on August 24th of last year, and finally on September 4th of last year. He never did the huge afk/wait while kos bullshit that has spiraled out of control since then, and even at that time there was talk of changing the weapon. Did he benefit from the weapon? He is *allowed* to benefit from the weapon on his player character. Did he abuse the shit out of it over the last two years like others? Not even close. You can judge him personally for using it for a couple weeks while reporting it, but saying that this somehow was postponed for his benefit is insane, and is just clouding the entire issue with bullshit.

Procs on ripostes put huge restrictions on the kind of procs we can put on items. This is the exact reason why live ended up taking them out too, by the way. Everytime we make an item, we have to say to ourselves "sure this proc is fine when the guy is meleeing, but can he pull a bajillion mobs and become invinciple?". That is a problem, and leads to less fun items being made. And there have been multiple examples of this being a problem, with the warrior weapon being the latest but also with some monk boots (which is why their stance got a 0% proc rate aspect) and way back when with the first tonfa nerf.

So what does this change mean? More interesting and powerful procs in more situations in the long run. If the Harvester needs to have its delay lowered to be more powerful, I am fine with that. The idea of the harvester letting a tank pad himself a bit is fine, but the fact that the more mobs pulled the more self healing he did was not fine. Having a weapon that lets a warrior heal himself pulling a mob or two is one thing, having a weapon that heals the warrior scaled to infinite mobs is not okay. People were pulling mobs to the point where the zone itself literally lagged out, and the player would stand there while the server caught up counting up all the hits procs etc to decide "WARRIOR WINS!". That is obviously a problem, just like when monks were pulling all of eldenals with fire nuke booties. Comparing either of these to knights healing themselves (while not afk) is disengenious at best.

We are going to be parsing the (albeit marginal) loss of DPS this has caused, and will be raising proc rates across the board to compensate. If there are specific weapons that were balanced around proc ripostes (which reems unrealistic, but hey) I will happily lower their delay or change them as needed by next patch if they are brought up here.

As far as healer weapons, this is not the thread to post about them. We are hoping to change the mechanic away from the mana drain one to a smaller heal, and add the functionality throughout the tiers. Still, we want to also make non weapon items throughout the game to stay needed, so we may be changing some part of how non weaponized healer weapons benefit things also. I would wait to complain about this till that patch, at least.

Also, the reason warriors were the ones initially compensated is not because of the harvester, but because warriors utilized riposte hate procs as their secondary (post foelock) group aggro ability. This was found to be the biggest collateral damage of the change, and was therefor the first to be addressed. That does not mean we are not parsing out other collateral effects to find and fix as well.
 
you reeled off a list of nerfs you wished to see happen and were glad to have seen happen. my comment was an ironic slight, inferring that you might be a member of the fun-police

oh i meant to nerf spirit scythe because it is really OP but the other items should be fixed because they were nerfed to the point of being detrimental. also horok has been broken for like a year :(

Also i think if proc rates are increased to make up for this it could help be a good balance. At least if it only procs on regular attacks it will make procs like 100x easier to balance.

Lastly I have seen plenty of different warriors using spirit scythes to kill tons of mobs semi-afk, its not just a select few people. Shit, I have used a warrior with it myself to get easy xp. sure it felt lame but it is currently part of the game and I would be dumb not to box a warrior with that scythe if I have the chance to.
 
From the get go here, your argument is fundamentally flawed considering I've never had Fuwok info, so whomever you remember sitting AFK in Remnants on Fuwok was not me.

That being said, the total time I was in Remnants using a character with Spirit-Harvest was Aug 24 - Sep 03 of 2012. During that time, I can assure you that I was not AFK while killing mobs as suggested.

Clinging to the point that you used Stryda instead of Fuwok is pedantry at it's finest and cherrypicking quotes to defend yourself. Just own it and admit you exploited it, I don't think anyone really blames you. I know I took full advantage of overpowered shit too, but sitting here and denying it just hurts your credibility.

We're happy to hear any constructive ideas that people may have in regard to the collateral damage from this change. The main group affected by the lost hate, warriors, have already been compensated with bonus hate on every riposte. Unlike the proc chance on most weapons which is around 2-6% or so, the added hate is a 100% chance to give the warriors extra hate.

There's already a lot of good ideas in this thread. You should revert the riposte nerf, it's a cool mechanic and lots of monks and warriors already use it in non-exploit fashion. This can be fixed in a way that doesn't further alienate your playerbase, and the dev team is in dramatic need of some good-will with the players right about now.
 
The following link directs you to the Rules of the Game Development subforums rules. Have a read, then return.

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=27951

The tone here is unacceptable and needs to change immediately.

If you want to outright accuse staff of misconduct, those accusations should be sent to [email protected].

If you want to suggest that the staff does not listen to or communicate to the playerbase, then you might be interested to see a direct comparison to WoW. The Blue Tracker is a good way to see how much they are communicating. Posts in only 5 forums threads in the last day that weren't their own advertising... for a game with a gajillion players paying millions and millions of dollars a month.

If you want to suggest that changes like these are killing the game, then I'd retort that snide public comments like "THE GAME IS DYING" and "YOU ARE KILLING THE GAME" and "YOUR ACCOUNT DRIVE IS FAILING" are far more detrimental to the game than a well-intentioned change with specific plans for mitigating unintended consequences. Those should stop unless your intent is to harm the game out of spite.

If you are just frustrated at something and want someone to yell at, then keep in mind that yelling at the staff is harmful to the game and any new or potential players that see it may accept your comments as indication that the community here is no better than WoW or Runescape.

This thread was made as an upfront courtesy and attempt to open lines of communication about this change, its intentions, its motives, and its consequences. It wasn't created so you can behave poorly.
 
Not going to lie, I haven't played this game since April, so the fact I mixed up Fuwok for Stryda is no surpirse. I am, however, surprised with your response that it was only two weeks, as it seemed to occur over a significant period of time. And of course, there is no incentive for staff to lie about what's in the logs to protect staff, glad we cleared this up.
 
Clinging to the point that you used Stryda instead of Fuwok is pedantry at it's finest and cherrypicking quotes to defend yourself. Just own it and admit you exploited it, I don't think anyone really blames you. I know I took full advantage of overpowered shit too, but sitting here and denying it just hurts your credibility.

I agree that the character used does not matter, however since Fuwok was allegedly seen being AFK killing mobs, the distinction is important since I never spent any time AFK killing anything.
 
Ok let me start this off by saying that the only reason jumbers talks / talked to me was because osprey had to talk him down from his hate / nerd rage against me. I hated jumbers a lot for quite some time for being a big baby and not letting go of older things but I no longer hate said guy.

I was apart of the remnants circle jerk that happened. Let me explain how the remnants grind went.

First of all it was usually Jumbers on Stryda, torleran, kandi, diashan, transi, barbii (sub the last 2 spots for other goons). If jumbers was playing he was grinding (yes moving and killing mobs) from about 12am to about 7am. The exp was slow but it was moving. The first couple of hours the exp would be great exp but towards the 7am mark he would slow down as im sure he couldnt open his eyes.

at the 7am mark he either would log off and someone would take over or we would break for the day.

When I got home at around 5 I would tell him im starting a grind and he would join me. Groups would normally be fuwok (played by me), diashan (me), torleran, adalus, transi, barbii or osprey or some other gay goon. I would grind until the 12am mark and then the top would happen.

Maybe to you guys you would think he was afk because you never thought about stepping foot in remnants. But i assure you that if we were ever afk we were not near the croc lane.

Stop trying to burn the witch without realllly knowing whats up. We were always in remnants cause the cash was decent, wasnt hard, and was good exp if you could get a cycle of people doing it.

thanks~
 
Is there going to be a change soonish to fix the extreme loss in DPS for the Spirit Harvest weapon?
 
Dumb drama in this thread

Anyway personally at the moment, I am a fan of keeping the ability to riposte off of procs but having a boolean flag on each proc to determine if the proc can proc from a riposte or not in the first place. That would provide the most level of control for the devs. I like being able to proc off of ripostes but I can see it being real overpowered for certain items (see scythe, old matrons grasp, vah sword, pretty much anything an AOE effect).

I can see it being a big nerf to aoe proc weapons as well. While they still proc decently against a couple mobs, it will really hurt tanking like 10+ mobs at once. Proccing AOEs off of ripostes was pretty awesome and great for gaining aggro and making it easier to tank a lot of mobs with a warrior. Hopefully warriors gaining aggro from ripostes alone will be a decent aggro buff but it will hurt paladins and shadowknights. Testing will have to be done.

edit: also wasn't the point of this to nerf the extreme dps any sort of weapon with a 100% chance to proc would do against mass groups of mobs?
 
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Spirit-Harvest, Warriors, and Down The Road.

I am one of the the number one abusers of Spirit-Harvest. I have never afked with it for more than any time over like 30 seconds to grab a drink, which is like, 30 seconds my druid could have survived through or maybe like the duration of ancient hot. I personally love mindless grinds I can duo without having to worry whether or not my dps has to sleep so, it was a fun spot for me. In it's prior state the weapon was definitely overpowered, but to say that this isn't a band-aid fix is kind of ridiculous.

Here are a couple permanent fixes.
- Scale riposte chance with how hard mobs hit
* Obviously this offers a lot of problems with Tank Mitigation, as you do not take a round on ripostes, so there's a few fixes to that. Set a high threshold for a maximum riposte chance thats about the same % chance to riposte right now, scale that around mobs that hit decently hard per round, like 600-800 max hit.
This way a monster like a fleeing cractee has about half the chance of being riposted as a spectral iksar, and the maximum chance given to riposte bloodied quarry elites and higher attacking monsters Then give Enrage a component that scales with the Berserk Tomes, you have a base 75% chance to miss while Enraged, because your rage is blinding and the berserk tomes give you 6.25% less chance to miss under 50% health. This way the weapon can stabilize a warrior, without fully healing him because warriors can already die with a zone full of cractees (the optimal mob) so if on these type of mobs they had a much lower chance to riposte....
This is a lot of work of course, but I think that it is a fix that would satisfy all parties involved and be fairly balanced. I feel like it can be done in a manner that doesn't change a chance of any guild progressing through 6 man/12 man/ 18 man content.
The difference between a band-aid fix and a quality fix lies in the staff, and I understand that the staff is volunteer and there is a lot of different numbers that go into this, however I think this will solve all future problems with balancing riposting weapon survivability. It won't fix riposting damage weapons/boots but I feel like if you can pull big with something like that and live there are other things you can be doing to balance those weapons/boots/ the class that are receiving them.
Tl;dr There are better ways to do this, I have bad ideas.
 
LMAO all of this bullshit over a weapon thats over powered in exp groups that should be technically green cons at this point. Have you EVER played a warrior in a raid zone? 90% of those mobs resist the scythe anyways. Making this weapon completely useless was a terrible idea, and you should be ashamed of yourselfs for killing the desire to play this game entirely. The real issue here is that the game is stuck at level 65 and the higher end exp zones suck hairy moose balls, and yer not allowed to have "favorite" zones anymore. The idea of being a roaming nomad to endless zones on a daily basis makes me sick to my stomach. The only real problem with the scythe was the enrage aspect honestly, which clearly was averted and address in a quick relentless manor.
 
This nerf will do nothing but drive player numbers lower, how many people quit due to small to moderate nerfs? This one is MASSIVE, I wonder how many will quit now.

Also not gonna lie tao but passive aggressive posts do not help your cause, every other staff member replied in a none hostile form. This thread is not the only time you have responded in such a way. People see that and don't like it.

Before this MASSIVE nerf went in the staff should have adjusted the aggro and added and or modded the procs for warriors because now warriors are the weakest class for group exp.

Lastly I've said this a number of times on a number of threads, I'm no Dev but if I make a change to a game and the general response from my player base is outrage then my change was bad and should be fixed I'm all for balance but the Fun Police need to chill.
 
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I can understand why many of the other warriors are upset and why the non warriors are also angry. of course im not surprised this nerf happened eventually but i see a small silver lining in its passing...namely the fact that i dont feel i absolutely have to use spirit harvest all the time anymore as its likely now inferior to some of the other weapons around that tier.

i will say that this "nerf" will hit monks and such in the dps apartment and will be a painful thing to endure till the rest of the changes are made and i can only hope that some of the procs out there get the boosts they need to compensate for this change.

i will also admit i used the spirit harvests previous abilities when i soloed quite often. much like one of the previous posters said i only afked for a few seconds to RR or fetch a drink while killing KOS mode crac'tees ect and of course i felt it was "broken" but when your guild stops exping you do what you gotta do to get exp in the world of nerfed exp everywhere.

in any case i can only put my faith in the Devs as no matter how much we whine and bitch it most likely means jack squat unless said whining also has constructive feedback that can mend the situation instead of causing the Devs to throw their hands up in anger/defeat and saying "f*** this game, they can deal with unfinished balances if they wanna whine!"

TL;DR = stop whining and poo-flinging and give constructive ideas and have faith in the goddamn people who spend their time to make this hunk of junk work!
 
If a player has invested the thousands of hours it takes to get these high end items then let them have God-mode. With all the FTP MMORPG's out there SoD has their work cut out to entice new players and retain old ones. Watering the game down over and over again isn't how to do that.
 
People were pulling mobs to the point where the zone itself literally lagged out, and the player would stand there while the server caught up counting up all the hits procs etc to decide "WARRIOR WINS!".

This is frustrating as fuck when people do this, especially in remnants where it is easy to do. It makes the zone unusable for anyone else. That said, whenever I have accidentally lagged the zone, it was a toss up with who wins mobs or warrior... Meaning, I'd try very hard not to pull so many mobs because death kills valuable time and it ruins the zone for other people who are in it.

I would like to point out that this type of pulling could still happen when t13 guys are xping in certain zones... T11-T13 tanks are still going to be mass pulling zones for tome xp and cash. It is just going to require marginally more healing. I think the issue really lies in the way some of the 65+ zones are currently giving xp/cash. If they were better incentivized to go to harder zones, they would stay away from places where mass pulling is feasible.



Spirit-Harvest delay probably is going to need adjusted because I think it was partly a 125 delay due to knowing about repost procing. Can I ask, are warriors going to still want to use this weapon anymore with its' current damage/delay?
 
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