Riposte change

Discussion in 'Retirement Home' started by j883376, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. bloog

    bloog Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    184
    dont worry that makes two of us :)

    all good. i am not the best poster so my posts can be terrible and full of bad grammar.
     
  2. Baxters

    Baxters Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    78
    The end of the beginning of the beginning of the end

    this is terrible and sad. this is a mistake. it's not too late to turn back.
     
    Gargate and CharmCitysKing like this.
  3. DernipDaGnome

    DernipDaGnome Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Alright,

    As this post is to be critical of recent changes I would like to first take thank not only the current developers but all the folks who have taken the time into working on this game. I have logged countless hours and gotten a lot of enjoyment from it and I know so many of you past and present have spent countless hours trying to help this game grow.

    That being said I’m going to go ahead and just take an unofficial census and say not many are happy with these changes. Of course, you could say that I am biased as I play a warrior as my main.

    Now, if the issue is being able to develop more interesting procs I don’t really believe I can get behind that. Perhaps weapons just shouldn't be that powerful? I guess I don’t really know what is meant when speaking to item effects that would break the game with the current mechanics. So, no sarcasm here, I’m curious - are folks getting bored of the weapon procs that you are able to put into the game? If the answer is yes, I ask you to be respectful the the game mechanics that have held president. If it is no it would be nice to see another other justification behind this that goes further than you want to be able to add new item content.

    Here is the part where I will throw in my two cents, respectfully. Examine the weapons that are believed to be too out of skew and address the issue directly that way instead of changing the overall mechanics. Seems like a very roundabout way to me.

    Again, curiosity, what sort of procs do you have in mind that you cannot implement now?
    What tiers were they intended to be put into?

    Thanks,

    Olaw

    Edit: Please, respectively please, change this graphic.

    http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Adversity
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
    Gargate likes this.
  4. Obscenitor

    Obscenitor Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    Here and there..
    how much do you pay a month for your dps apartment?
     
  5. bloog

    bloog Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    184
    Its pretty much any strong heal or aoe proc. I think its how the more mobs you pull the more you riposte and thats why it makes certain weapons with a high proc chance really overpowered.
     
    Gargate likes this.
  6. Baxters

    Baxters Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    78
    fibromyalgia strikes again
     
  7. JDJersey

    JDJersey Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    464
    Jesus, this is terrible. Not the nerf, i mean the response. Christ guys, they aren't getting paid to do this. Do any of you ever think that these things really might be better in the long run? Or at the very least that the Dev's honestly think they will?
     
  8. Apros

    Apros Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    142
    The reason everyone is getting upset (point form i don't want to type an essay):

    -Promises made that after a nerf, things will get looked at (please look at healer weapons and bane damage just to be recent)
    -Things don't change, and the game remains the same and people are expected to just "deal with it"
    -High end progression is halted, because just as you gain something, its ripped away. (see 4.3 weapons and the above two in first bullet, again to be recent)
    -Progress again in current state of the game, repeat cycle

    I have played this game almost 5 years, and this cycle is vicious and never ending. I think the vast majority of the older server population is not just lashing out at this change, it's just frosting on top of the icing on the cake.

    Personally every time these nerfs happen, it makes me want to log in less and less, because I know it will just remain broken, you will get tossed a small bone and expect to keep trudging forward on to content that doesn't change, and was beaten "on tier" before all of the nerfs. Saying that you will balance the content later to make it in line with the changes is just to long a process, when you go 1 step forwards and 2 steps backwards every 3 months, it's really frustrating and makes you question why you even play.

    Their is a lot of jargon in a lot of posts above, likely it will never be read again in 2 weeks.

    TL:DR - Don't nerf things until you have the balancing factor ready as well.
    example: Don't nerf riposte procs, until you are ready to patch and increase all other procs. Doing the first, without the follow up is really just.... Well you know...
     
    Gargate and CharmCitysKing like this.
  9. DernipDaGnome

    DernipDaGnome Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    A very sad decline in DPS for me =(
     
  10. Dinadass

    Dinadass Dalayan Pious Diety

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,330
    This. A thousand times this.
     
    Gargate likes this.
  11. bloog

    bloog Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    184
    Personally I still think just having the ability to set if a proc will trigger on a riposte or not would be the best option. Most control over the situation. Some weapons would be balanced even if they can proc off ripostes and others will be hugely overpowered. Its also probably an easy change just to have the default value for the variable be so weapons will proc on a riposte and then just set the value to true if the weapon wont proc off a riposte. There aren't that many weapons that make the character brokenly overpowered and allow it to AFK farm.

    Actually why not just make it so any proc that heals or has a lifetap will not be triggered from a riposte. Only damage and debuff abilities. Still setting a boolean (true/false value for non programmers) is a good solution.

    Also this change is actually sort of a buff for warriors with normal not super high end weapons because now you get +hate no matter what and when you only have a 3% chance to proc off your riposte anyway the odds are against you.

    Also if weapon proc rates are going to be increased across the board it would give a decent dps increase during raids because most people won't be doing any riposting anyway.

    Really though the only issue is with riposting and having weapons that have a high proc rate. I bet original Cella was pretty awesome when paladins could use it (and it didn't drain a fuckton of mana and make using it detrimental!) Even a 10% chance to proc off a riposte is ok because thats still small chance for it to go off off an ability that only has a small chance to go off. However when the proc is 100% chance then it turns it into a totally different situation.

    Also
    This times a million!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  12. DernipDaGnome

    DernipDaGnome Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Please undo
     
    Gargate likes this.
  13. JDJersey

    JDJersey Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    464
    You guys seem to be making some pretty hasty generalizations here. Just step back for a bit and see if the world actually ends. Sure, it'd be nice if they could roll out all the changes at once, but we haven't even had time to see if the world is actually ending because of this change. Calm down, let it play out. This is a free fucking game run by people trying to do their best to make a good game out of it. The way you guys behave makes it seem like they just took twenty bucks from you, spilled your icecream, and made all your loots go away.

    Every time a nerf has happened it's the end of the damn world. I'm more turned off this game by player attitudes towards the game than I am by the game itself. I'd love to log in and play with people and get some phats.

    Let's just forget about all this shit the Dev's do to make the game run and all the work that is going into the second major overhaul of the game to make it more fun; this nerf is going to ruin everything.
     
    Breigon likes this.
  14. Ludovician

    Ludovician Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    370
    It feels like the Dev team just wants progression to stop at tier 10-11. After that it's too easy to roll through blue con shitty mobs for the best XP / Cash in the game because all the high end zones just get nerfed due to being "too good" for the players who worked hard enough to be able to take advantage. (Cita, OG)

    Spirit Harvest was only broken because there's no place *challenging* to take it to XP with. Deep First Ruins or BQ are some of the more difficult XP areas in the game and I for damn sure died in there using a top 5 Spirit Harvest warrior a bunch of times AND it was challenging and fun with a full group... and then my XP bonus went negative 50% and I didn't want to go there anymore so it was back to farming easy blues because I had no other choice. Literally having no place fun to XP is why I stopped playing the game.

    The problem is that right now it's not hard to raid up to tier 11-12 content, but XP content caps around tier 7. Of course it's going to be trivial...

    What's going to happen when Ikisith 3.0 comes out and people progress past tier 12-13 on the new content? What if FWF reforms and decides to start raiding and breaks into that tier 14 content? Will the upgrades be so marginal that they can't go farm trivial content easily? I doubt it because why would you even bother progressing?


    Here's what's going to happen: Loot's gonna be great, new AAs (if they come) will be really good too. People will be able to farm XP zones even harder and faster and.... and then they'll be nerfed again.

    Edit: Go to youtube and look up some videos of EQ Live. People solo mid tier raid bosses, people pull entire zones on a cleric and solo it for xp. It's not broken, that game's still going strong. That company just knows how to let players feel powerful and enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  15. Slayer90

    Slayer90 Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    165
    ludo said it all right here how doi miss taking my druid and power leving a toon 1-70 with 1k AA in 4 days
     
  16. Daffie

    Daffie Dalayan Pious Diety

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicago
    This could be a good option, but I think that the game is so developed that it needs less exceptions to the rule, not more. The nitty gritty gets pretty confusing already due to the all the exceptions.

    My honest thought on this is that a T13 tank pulling a full tier 4-6 zone and winning, with minimal outside heals, is ok. This game progression is natural and actually makes sense. It happens in all MMOs, and most other games that have power progressions. The stronger you get, the easier old content gets... Shit, it even happens in the original super Mario brothers. Grow big then get a flower.

    I whole heartedly believe something should be done about being able to crash a zone due to pulling to many mobs. This is unacceptable as it makes the game unplayable for others in that same zone.
     
  17. Hyoren

    Hyoren Dalayan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    155
    This riposte change isn't so bad. What I hate is that it was a quick fix only because of the exp weekend. It doesn't look like it was well planned and is not a balance change but a nerf change. Why it is a nerf and not a balance is because they didn't plan and change weapons in accordance with the DPS loss to tanks. Say you have Spirit Harvest its a 100% proc weapon with tomes and such each riposte did 200-300ish dmg (consistant spell dmg, unlike melee dmg with a min/max) with a chance to proc for 600ish dmg. So now that riposte doesn't proc how do you compensate for the lost of dmg and also lost of dmg from Enrage because now each riposte there just lost that DPS as well.
     
  18. Latten

    Latten Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    651
    Location:
    Finland
    This times 1000. Just change the procc % on the said weapon and it wouldnt be so damn op in exp grps but still desirable.

    Also Ludo is correct when tier 14 and 2nd phase of ikisith comes out the next nerf of items from tur ruj / spires will happen. This has happened ever since IP was top tier zone and then Thaz and then ToT came out.
     
  19. Nebi

    Nebi Dalayan Pious Diety

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,235
    The best solution to this would be what an AOE spell does. make it so you can only effectively riposte off up to 5 mobs at a time.

    or

    Make it so when you riposte you can only proc your actual weapon on 5 mobs and the rest of the mobs get that innate + hate.
     
  20. Gargate

    Gargate Dalayan Elder

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    505
    What nebi said is basically how earth shaker was fixed on live. Yeah I know an EQ reference but the staff brought it up first.

    Lud an Apros could not have summed up the state of things any better, we get half backed nerfs with either no or slow follow through, we get the Fun Police to watch out for because if its fun it gets nerfed.

    Non exp bonus week peak hours is about 170ish players (most of those guilds/players are in this thread) last night at peak hours double exp week 160ish. When I played from 09 to 11 sever was about 400/500 at peak non bonus week flash forwards after a bunch of unpopular changes player base avg less then 100.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013

Share This Page