Runic 2 for mage/bst

Bridger said:
I can recognize Bull Shit when I am standing in it and this is prime grade A1 BS.

There is no way a pet would be created and not be instantly recognized as having that much extra HP.

There is no way that if the pets were that much OP that it would not be instantly recognized when they started to be used.

There is no way that the timing of this is not linked to the fact that people outside of FWF are about to get their runic pets.

Now I suggest that you stop treating us like idiots and get a Dev to come on here and tell us what is really going on here. It is no surprise that Devs have been conspicuous by their absence from this thread.

One very pissed off Mage.
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You are really dumb for real.
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wait I mean, OMG I can't believe they nerfed ranger R2 after Kedrin/Eisley got to abuse it for so long, now that other rangers finally have it its getting nerfed even though it clearly wasn't WORKING AS INTENDED (LIKE YOUR NONEXISTENT R2 PET'S HP) wahhhhhhhh!

See how dumb that sounds?
 
Bridger said:
The way I see this issue arising is as follows:-

I will take by way of example http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Bane_of_the_Fallen_God/2HS

While there are only 4 or 5 people on the server there is no issue with this item.
It just so happens that by the nature of obtaining this, these people are likely to be FWF.

Now fast forward say 12 months.
It now looks like soon there are soon going to be say 20 toons with this item.

The Devs say Whay - This is going to be a threat to existing content.
So some reason is discovered and the item is nerfed.

Likely to be no problem for FWF as they will be moving on to the next super item anyway.
If however you are going to be the thirtieth person to obtain it you will forever experience the rug being pulled out from under you.

So, no skullduggery by FWF or Dev plots, but the effect is for "the good stuff" to remain forever out of reach.
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I'd be more concerned with the fact that other guilds have had over a year of time to try learning the fights and either A) Haven't beaten them or B) Haven't even tried. Waiting for fights to get nerfed before you kill them means that the over powered items that drop will also have been nerfed by that point.
 
Bridger said:
The way I see this issue arising is as follows:-

I will take by way of example http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Bane_of_the_Fallen_God/2HS

While there are only 4 or 5 people on the server there is no issue with this item.
It just so happens that by the nature of obtaining this, these people are likely to be FWF.

Now fast forward say 12 months.
It now looks like soon there are soon going to be say 20 toons with this item.

The Devs say Whay - This is going to be a threat to existing content.
So some reason is discovered and the item is nerfed.

Likely to be no problem for FWF as they will be moving on to the next super item anyway.
If however you are going to be the thirtieth person to obtain it you will forever experience the rug being pulled out from under you.

So, no skullduggery by FWF or Dev plots, but the effect is for "the good stuff" to remain forever out of reach.
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Well if you feel like something is disproportionately powerful you should bring it to dev attention via a thread or whatever.
 
Bane of the Fallen God (and lots of other FWF-exclusive items) has already been nerfed before.

WHAT NOW?
 
Bridger said:
The way I see this issue arising is as follows:-

I will take by way of example http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Bane_of_the_Fallen_God/2HS

While there are only 4 or 5 people on the server there is no issue with this item.
It just so happens that by the nature of obtaining this, these people are likely to be FWF.

Now fast forward say 12 months.
It now looks like soon there are soon going to be say 20 toons with this item.

The Devs say Whay - This is going to be a threat to existing content.
So some reason is discovered and the item is nerfed.

Likely to be no problem for FWF as they will be moving on to the next super item anyway.
If however you are going to be the thirtieth person to obtain it you will forever experience the rug being pulled out from under you.

So, no skullduggery by FWF or Dev plots, but the effect is for "the good stuff" to remain forever out of reach.
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I hope you don't live your life with that tinfoil hat on. Are afraid to go outside or breathe in air for fear of death? How can you even handle anything with that much delusion.

Are you and Snake friends irl
 
You will never obtain Bane of the Fallen Gods Bridger.

I will be surprised when/if anyone outside of FWF kills the mob. Exodus might have 6 people compitent enough, but for you to obtain the item, CW would need the encounter on farm status, which wont happen with constant exo/fwf competition, and then someone would have to actually box your character for the fight.

You also fail to realize that new items get nerfed/changed constantly. Bane of the Fallen God has been changed three times since I got the item. Am I bitching and moaning? No. Half of my gear has been nerfed since I obtained it, and most of those nerfs were immediately after I obtained the item.

So then a couple things happen to get changed once, god forbid, cw/exo have access to them and it is a grand conspiracy.

On Topic: I'm not sure of the reason for the nerf. Were people abusing these pets to tank big monsters? I had always experienced them as being poor tanks because of there super low AC, but FWF doesn't try so hard to exploit things. It wouldn't surprise me if others *cough*exo*cough* found some mostly spell damage boss to exploit by tanking with a pet, and this is certainly one way things would get nerfed just as new people obtain it. If someone finds a way and abuses something that wasnt getting abused before, it will likely get nerfed.
 
Bridger said:
Well put it this way:-

Well over 6 months ago I predicted
(a) that this would happen
(b) that it would happen on or about the time people outside FWF get their runic

I offered to bet anyone a large sum on this outcome but no one would take me up on it because they thought it was so likely. The guild is already playing "spot the next item to be nerfed when it becomes available outside of FWF".

So do I think it is a conspiracy against my guild? - No.

Do I think there is a policy of having really good items the sole preserve of FWF? - Most definitely Yes.

The timing on this and the nerf on Vah Back for example was just SO predictable.
It is known within our guild as the FWF effect.
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I have no idea where half of your assumptions have come from but you are right about one thing. The HP values on the pets was known for awhile. It was not until recently though that one of the devs that had mostly been on hiatus came back and decided it was a problem. I personally don't care how much hp the pets have because they cant tank for crap and them dieing to AoEs is kind of stupid too.

I nerfed Vah back not because I thought it was OP for encounters you have done (lol). But because it was cheesing FIGHTS YOU HAVE YET TO EVEN TRY. The Vah clicky was too game changing on an encounter to encounter basis. All of the fights in the game are most assuredly doable with 0 Vah backs because it is no longer a consideration in design like it was previous to its nerf. This change was actually more of an aid to people WITHOUT Vah backs than those with it.
 
Bridger said:
The way I see this issue arising is as follows:-

I will take by way of example http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Bane_of_the_Fallen_God/2HS

While there are only 4 or 5 people on the server there is no issue with this item.
It just so happens that by the nature of obtaining this, these people are likely to be FWF.

Now fast forward say 12 months.
It now looks like soon there are soon going to be say 20 toons with this item.

The Devs say Whay - This is going to be a threat to existing content.
So some reason is discovered and the item is nerfed.

As far as saying only the top guild can have nice things, only the top guild pushes through the new content, testing it and exploring the ramifications of the new loot. If it really bothers you that much, YOU go do content nobody's done before and scoop loot nobody else has, find out awesome things you can do with it and sit back and wait for it to be adjusted.

Likely to be no problem for FWF as they will be moving on to the next super item anyway.
If however you are going to be the thirtieth person to obtain it you will forever experience the rug being pulled out from under you.

So, no skullduggery by FWF or Dev plots, but the effect is for "the good stuff" to remain forever out of reach.
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There are a lot of things that have to be playtested, sometimes it takes a lot of observation and tweaking before final(?) adjustments are made. This is sounding like Numinous v. Sanctum all over again. For an example of change after change after change after content had been around for a while just look at Thaz. I remember the big hoopla when the dodge mod was removed from melee thaz pants, and guilds had been farming it for ages.

Don't shit on the dev staff for adjusting things BEFORE people have gotten used to having them around for years and itemized around them.
 
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Bridger said:
The way I see this issue arising is as follows:-

I will take by way of example http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Bane_of_the_Fallen_God/2HS

While there are only 4 or 5 people on the server there is no issue with this item.
It just so happens that by the nature of obtaining this, these people are likely to be FWF.

Now fast forward say 12 months.
It now looks like soon there are soon going to be say 20 toons with this item.

The Devs say Whay - This is going to be a threat to existing content.
So some reason is discovered and the item is nerfed.

Likely to be no problem for FWF as they will be moving on to the next super item anyway.
If however you are going to be the thirtieth person to obtain it you will forever experience the rug being pulled out from under you.

So, no skullduggery by FWF or Dev plots, but the effect is for "the good stuff" to remain forever out of reach.
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This item is kind of overpowered in its own right honestly, mostly since its synergy with a certain bracer. I have wanted to re adjust the scaling on the hp curse to be based on mana for awhile now but things are not always so easy. 4.3 items are under constant changing all the time mostly because of their different nature. So yes as the game evolves sometimes items have to evolve as well. I think it sucks just as much as you, but getting new things right the 1st time is easier said than done.
 
Can we stop flaming bridger and get back to the topic at hand.

One of the other things to note about why the additional hps were nice on the pets is with the word of power series for mage tomes, the pet abilities cause huge aggro and can sometimes almost insta kill your pet when everything turn on them and you don't have time to recall minion. The additional hps allowed tanks to reclaim aggro or allow us to pull pets back and heal them up some.

If the hps stay reduced is there any way our pets can get some ac or avoidance added in so that they will stay alive longer?
 
Moraelintz said:
Can we stop flaming bridger and get back to the topic at hand.

One of the other things to note about why the additional hps were nice on the pets is with the word of power series for mage tomes, the pet abilities cause huge aggro and can sometimes almost insta kill your pet when everything turn on them and you don't have time to recall minion. The additional hps allowed tanks to reclaim aggro or allow us to pull pets back and heal them up some.

If the hps stay reduced is there any way our pets can get some ac or avoidance added in so that they will stay alive longer?
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Prolly the smartest thing on this post yet. Lets keep it on topic so we can maybe get this fix'd. I can see why they dont want mage pets having 30k hp but making them slightly better than relic witch is t3-4 is also going a little far imo.

My idea is give they pet 150-200% of Relic Pet Hp, an innate 250 ac, 40 to all resists.Then Each form would be Dif, Fire would be 150% hp with 250 ac / 40 to all resists cept 60 to fire, Water and air prolly around 175% of relic pet hp, 250 ac 40 all resists, Earth would get a bonus to AC and 200% Hp being its Earth but dps is slightly lower, I dont know the values of the Relic pet so its kinda hard to judge this, But runic 2 is by far the hardest spell to obtain in the game, it should be worthwhile but not OP. I am far away from runic2 but it this nerf kinda kills my urge to grind end game and try to get the spell when the its nothing that's going to be game changing for my mage.
 
Who is this Dev and do they have any clue what we encounter at this tier? Last night on our way to Rujik Titanus took one riposte and one WW and lost 60% of his health in the first 5 seconds while trying to help aux a trash mob. at least before between my heals he stood a chance of living while timing recalls but now it's not even worth it. The entire night was like that...

And we still have never gotten any answer on why Mage heals can't have their timer reduced, is there an official staff position that mages aren't allowed to effectively heal their pets (not anywhere near what a true healer can but as I've said in at least 4 threads now if we're healing we aren't doing dps). Even with 4.3 sword I crit healed for around 4.5k (maybe more/less, hard to remember with the variance) which isn't enough to keep the pet up on anything remotely hard but its enough where I'd we had to stop casting and heal the pet up we could. It's not like we can even heal ourselves...
 
Also one big thing to remember is that the mage have a very reduced ability to heal the pet compared to beastlords.
The beastlord have one big targetted heal (yes it is good to have, I have seen more than one fight win due to bst healing the tank or healer at right time) that can keep the pet up at bad times when the group heals miss the pet.

Mages dont have that luxury.

What if mages get one more pet heal? one on a DIFFERENT timer this time, so we have 2 to keep the pet up? (with at least the same healing ability as the one we have atm)
Could be a quested one if wanted to keep it limited to the higher tier raiding.
 
Yeah. I remember I sent a tell to valdian when he first got his runic 2. He said it had something like 45k hp lol. I dunno if he exaggerrated or something but that was a bit op imo. I just hope runic 2 cud be proportionally better than relic as it is harder to obtain and the time it takes to obtain it. Great idea from Malicre65. Thx for being classy shimone your a good guy.
 
Also I don't know where people are getting this 30k HP BS, I pointed out in my runic two thread 9 months ago what the approx pet HP values were. The highest HP pet was earth at 24-26K, air and water at ~20, and fire at 18. I know these values because I tested each one myself, for air I healed 20% of his health at around 4.2k on one crit heal and it hadnt changed until the nerf.

When I first got the pet the Earth had about 40k HP but that lasted all of about 22 hours.
 
On the bright side they really did make mages a legit dps with ikisith. Before that no one wanted us. At least now we are tolerable.
 
The beastlord pet had higher HP than the mage pet and I know this from healing them in exp groups, sure. Kjiel's pet had something like ~30k full buffed, and the mage one between 21 and ~25k depending on form. Point I posted still stands though. The huge hit points on these offset the absolutely abysmal mitigation stats and they're probably back to dying to content the tier you get them about as fast as my relic pet does at tier 9 now.

If the mitigation gets bumped or some other fix like companion health becoming a combination of HP and mitigation boosts then things might be ok.
 
Kanwen said:
Also I don't know where people are getting this 30k HP BS, I pointed out in my runic two thread 9 months ago what the approx pet HP values were. The highest HP pet was earth at 24-26K, air and water at ~20, and fire at 18. I know these values because I tested each one myself, for air I healed 20% of his health at around 4.2k on one crit heal and it hadnt changed until the nerf.

When I first got the pet the Earth had about 40k HP but that lasted all of about 22 hours.
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yep this are the same number i have from windbeutel
and windbeutel didnever tank a boss we killd in the try wind tankd it but most time i have my pet as aux tank
but w/ the lowhp i cant use it as aux it will die on repo faster then i or my ghealer can heal it
 
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