Smoothing Caster DPS

[Silosobi]

I think a lot of people agree with your general sentiment, but you are picking the wrong battle.

This resist change does nothing except remove some deaths because of bad luck and wins because of good luck.

SoD retains huge levels of randomness that most people probably would be opposed to changing - our systems of how dps is dished out and how tanks mitigate damage is hugely random, we can still lose a fight to a tank getting 1 rounded, or win because casters got a bunch of lucky crits.

You keep bringing up soloing/grouping in a dungeon verse a group of normal mobs... the resist change wont really effect that. Mez/root/snare can all still be resisted. Who cares if your damage is more steady, it wont have an effect 99% of the time. If anything, this change will make the skilled groups stand out even more than before, since the bad group is less likely to win due to luck, and the good group is less likely to lose due to luck.

Nearly everyone here loves old EQ. A huge part of the issue always has been and will continue to be that when games first come out and lots of content is yet undiscovered there is just a feeling of wonder and excitement. You find a white con named mob and you have no clue what cool treasure it will drop. You turn a corner and there are a bunch of monsters and you have no clue how to deal with them.

Most of that stuff inevitably changes with time. There is no way to stop the change, it is going to happen whether people like it or not. Eventually, people know exactly how do deal with a pull of 6 mob in a dungeon. At some point, in every MMO, a large portion of the population will get to a point where they are no longer excited by standard mobs, and you need to add scripted raid or group encounters to keep players challenged and excited.

Everyone is getting so off topic though, the change we should be discussing here just makes caster dps a bit less random, it doesnt make the game easier or harder. Most people, even people who love oldschool exp loss corpse run EQ can see that this is a good change.

 

[Tarutao]

I'm hearing "I am nostalgic about a game that's brand new and when I knew nothing about it, so I won't play this game again ever, but I'm complaining anyway". If there are people that actually play the game and aren't the type to play for 3 days each time a major change happens and quit again (WoW expansion syndrome), then I'd like to hear it. In the meantime, the actual SoD playerbase seems to like this change.

 

[metvayne1]

I'm hearing "I am nostalgic about a game that's brand new and when I knew nothing about it, so I won't play this game again ever, but I'm complaining anyway". If there are people that actually play the game and aren't the type to play for 3 days each time a major change happens and quit again (WoW expansion syndrome), then I'd like to hear it. In the meantime, the actual SoD playerbase seems to like this change.

This

For years I yearned to play a Classic server for the nostalgia. When I finally got the opportunity, I got bored very quickly and then realized how terrible original EQ was. There is a difference between "making a game hard" and just bad design.

 

[Xalsturi]

Removed?

Did this change get removed? I was doing r1 bounty in freeport arena on my shaman (Draedan) this evening and had DoTs resisted several times by the skellies. Just buggy?

 

[Zaela]

The new server went up with an out-of-date build.

 

[robots]

I'm hearing "I am nostalgic about a game that's brand new and when I knew nothing about it, so I won't play this game again ever, but I'm complaining anyway". If there are people that actually play the game and aren't the type to play for 3 days each time a major change happens and quit again (WoW expansion syndrome), then I'd like to hear it. In the meantime, the actual SoD playerbase seems to like this change.

Yeah EQ busted a lot of peoples cherries, which makes people extra fond of it. But it's not just the newness which has worn off. A lot of stuff is different now, all the stuff Zaela described, and like how I described about mezzing being more prevailent and how it was a lot trickier because people could still attack mezzed mobs, and the changes to death penalty and XP rate and no more research etc. A lot of the changes just got rid of boring chores, but some of them just made the game easier. Whether you like it easier or not is just personal preference and I don't buy it when some of you try to tell me I'm somehow wrong or stupid to prefer it like that. Obviously I'm not the only one or there wouldn't be other people playing other servers and games like that.

As for the playerbase liking it, that seems to be true judging by this thread. But then, the majority of people posting (and playing?) are high tier level 65's who I suspect don't care about the 1-64 experience anymore. It's like a life imitating art type thing, you made the game with the focus on end game and simplified the rest of it, maybe the majority like this change simply because everyone else has quit and the game now is only of interest to the live4raiding types...

When people say, "If u dont leik it go play p99 insted!" it makes me wonder why SoD should give up those people. There's only 300 or so people here, and there's 300 or so people on p99 too. Maybe if the "journey" aspect got just as much love as the end game gets, you wouldn't have to split the audience 50/50.

 

[Tarutao]

the majority of people posting (and playing?) are high tier level 65's who I suspect don't care about the 1-64 experience anymore.

That's not a fair statement for someone that says they don't play SoD to make.

 

[Boehm]

I wonder;
- when players could stop breaking mez
- how a player can't differentiate between the power curve of level 55 and level 65 versus environment. A choice the professional programmers he fawns on, when it suits, made
- how same player thinks anything about this easy-in-all its iterations game ( esp as a necromancer (lol)) is hard
- how anyone thinks any aspect of a game with a 6 second+ decision loop is real time and hard.
- makes the most conceited series of posts I have ever seen, then straw mans that a player telling him to fuck off "hate all teh lowbies!"

I know many of the long term players on this server, like most and dislike some. But nearly to a man and woman, they are here for the group game. And while I believe they, like myself, have significant sympathy for the pleasures of the 55 game, don't have much sympathy for yourself and your abrasive grandstanding.

I have a significant stretch of very high end experience in other pvp oriented games for a period of over a decade. My experience was that really good players tend to modest and helpful, because they have nothing left to prove. And second raters conceited asses.

You strike me as the latter, and hurt your own potentially attractive argument.

 

[jakewiz]

dislike

I find myself on robots' side. I was very disappointed when I logged on my necro without realizing something had been changed and saw my damage had decreased. I didn't get a heck of a lot of resists in the first place, and so I was landing my dots and doing full damage. Sometimes I would have to deal with a resist but that is part of the game. Now I don't get full damage and I don't really get how I'm supposed to be getting "more damage" because of this change.

This is coming from someone who plays a lot but isn't in the high end game. My necro is 65 but with only a couple dozen AAs so far and no raiding experience. I'm just speaking from soloing with my necro to this point (haven't played my 55 druid since the change but I'm guessing I will be as dissapointed).

I don't know what level range this change had in mind, 1-65 or 65++ (if any) but I haven't yet seen a benefit in the bracket that I find all of my characters firmly in.

 

[Boehm]

You aren't getting more damage. You are getting the same damage adjusted for resist over time. You would have to comment on which spells you are talking about for me to make a semi-rational comment on whats going on.

Also, you are in no way agreeing with robots.

 

[robots]

That's not a fair statement for someone that says they don't play SoD to make.

I still play, just not full time. And you said the SoD playerbase likes the change, what was that based on? This thread alone?

I wonder;
- when players could stop breaking mez

What?

- how a player can't differentiate between the power curve of level 55 and level 65 versus environment. A choice the professional programmers he fawns on, when it suits, made

What??

- how same player thinks anything about this easy-in-all its iterations game ( esp as a necromancer (lol)) is hard

I've explained that several times already. Did you play the game when it was new, before it got completely changed?

- how anyone thinks any aspect of a game with a 6 second+ decision loop is real time and hard.

Where did you get that 6 second decision thing from? Because it's total bullshit. When a tough mob attacks a not so tough caster, they would be lucky to even survive 6 seconds. And look up what real time means.

- makes the most conceited series of posts I have ever seen, then straw mans that a player telling him to fuck off "hate all teh lowbies!"

What???

I know many of the long term players on this server, like most and dislike some. But nearly to a man and woman, they are here for the group game. And while I believe they, like myself, have significant sympathy for the pleasures of the 55 game, don't have much sympathy for yourself and your abrasive grandstanding.

Sorry but your English sucks, and I don't care what your opinion is of me, nor the one you made up of all the long term players whose minds you seem to think you can read.

I have a significant stretch of very high end experience in other pvp oriented games for a period of over a decade. My experience was that really good players tend to modest and helpful, because they have nothing left to prove. And second raters conceited asses.

You strike me as the latter, and hurt your own potentially attractive argument.

This is not a PVP game. And you don't know anything about me. You are attacking me based on pretty much nothing.


p.s. Ahh... you are Velleity, that explains everything.

Also, you are in no way agreeing with robots.

Hmm, he kind of is:

Sometimes I would have to deal with a resist but that is part of the game.

This is coming from someone who plays a lot but isn't in the high end game. My necro is 65 but with only a couple dozen AAs so far and no raiding experience. I'm just speaking from soloing with my necro to this point

Gosh, maybe they do exist?! Are you guys going to tell him to fuck off back to p99 as well? You know you want to.

 

[Tarutao]

And you said the SoD playerbase likes the change, what was that based on? This thread alone?

I talk to a lot of people. I deal with a lot of guilds. I have people randomly send me tells all the time to tell me how they feel about things. You don't have the basis to attack me or my awareness of the things that happen on this server, so don't do it.

I get that you don't like this change. What I don't get is your need to attack other players and post passive-aggressive comments like "you're Velleity, that explains everything" and "split the audience 50/50 with p99". These stop immediately, both from you and from other posters here.

 

[robots]

I talk to a lot of people. I deal with a lot of guilds. I have people randomly send me tells all the time to tell me how they feel about things. You don't have the basis to attack me or my awareness of the things that happen on this server, so don't do it.

I didn't attack you, I asked you a simple question!

I get that you don't like this change. What I don't get is your need to attack other players and post passive-aggressive comments like "you're Velleity, that explains everything" and "split the audience 50/50 with p99". These stop immediately, both from you and from other posters here.

Hey I am up front with my aggression whenever I feel the need. You are the one being passive aggressive, so if you don't like it then don't do it to me! "All I'm hearing is X" and accusing me of complaining and "giving people shit" for the sake of it. You are making changes to a server I've played on since about 2004!!! So obviously it's not just for the sake of it.... I know it's unusual for someone to have so much to say about the game, but it's partly because I'm a busybody, and partly because I do actually care, unlike the majority of people who play this game imo, and who you are quick to defend.

As for the p99 thing, it was your buddy Zaela who was first to mention p99, when she 'suggested' I go play that instead... Obviously your audience IS split between here and there. There is nothing passive or aggressive about that, it's a plain fact, they are both emu servers based on the exact same game, from the same era no less.

You say you want feedback, but I know how it works here. (Waldo excluded) You can't stand anyone who doesn't toe the line and you can't take criticism well, but some of you are only too happy to dish it out and are even insulting to newcomers for no reason. I say some.. seems like there's only a few of you left now though?

I don't think you have quite figured me out yet. I've been in this game since it started, even before you red and blue named people showed up and started looking down your noses at everyone and throwing your weight around with your newly granted powers like some kind of mall cop on a neverending bad day. I get it. I know Wiz well and I know that he deliberately picked cold people who fit that bill... and I know why he did it. But I ALSO know this game well, its audience and its potential audience, and I too talk to people. I even remember threads from 3 and 4 years ago, where people DARED to criticize SoD. I wonder how many of these complained about the raid focus? I know of at least one which explains it explicitly, (and no it wasn't made by me). With most of these threads, the usual result is that the OP gets ripped to shreds by the usual suspects, Ikaa, Budrick, etc... But you know what? Most of the assholes who refused to allow discussion have since been banned, or quit! That was a pretty bittersweet for me to find. So now you are going to have to poke away at people yourself, find their buttons to push them over the edge until they flip out and insult everyone and then you can ban them, conscience free!

However, in the meantime, while this little operation of ethnic cleansing has been taking place, your server has changed. You might not be able to see that being so close to it, just as you can't see yourself age, but as with a relative who you only stop in on occasionally, the changes are clearer. I can see the changes, and some of them are not too nice. I'm not talking JUST about game mechanics either, I'm talking about everything. I may take a several month break, but when I return I play the game, REALLY play. I make new characters and I don't twink them. I make friends with people in DB and we group together and I pretend to be a newbie too, but know just enough to make our lives a little bit safer. I talk to them, and I still talk to and observe the 65 crowd too, and just how much they have changed since the last time.. I see that they are almost entirely new names.. Suggesting that half the people have quit, and the other half have made new characters and leveled them to 65, which suggests that they might be looking at ways to keep themselves interested. Who has gone and who remains? Well of the remaining 65's, I know that a lot of them have taken almost every class in this game to 65 and raid geared them, and they will never leave this game until someone manages to get the keyboard out of their pale, cold, dead, unwashed hands. I also know that they are very jaded, and they hate everyone and everything.

And if I was you, I would be concerned about what I see. Most of all I would be worried about SoD's culture, and its future. I would be worried about all the good (some GREAT) people who have left the game and never returned, while the now banned idiots were ruling here and never had to deal with the fruits of their labour... ie: the lower population the game apparently now has. I would be worried about what kind of people are left still playing this game, what do they even want out of it, how sociable are they? Is it even possible to cater to them sufficiently? Are they really a good basis for this server? What happens if new players don't come? And what kind of experience do new players get when they come to this game?

Seems like a lot to think about for a free game that nobody pays to play, but there you go.

 

[stral]

I don't think you have quite figured me out yet.

I started reading the entirety of this post, and stopped when I read that. If you had a point, it was lost a long, long time ago. Can you explain in 3 or less sentences how exactly it is swapping out the full resist system with a damage equivalent, not rng based system, was a bad thing?

The only argument against this change that I read in this entire thread that seemed logical, came down more or less to "my big numbers aren't quite as big." That argument makes sense, not that I agree with it or think he really understood the change when he posted it, since big numbers are important to some people (most wizards).

 

[Dimmi]

stral the most amazing thing happened, you can fill your raid with mobile minor illusions. plz come home

 

[stral]

<story bout a blonde goes here> give me another a week to screw this up and I'll give you a more definitive answer.


Though I mean, I DID recently have a conversation with one of her friends, where she insisted on calling herself 'pro-abortion.' The company you keep type thing comes to mind or something. Not pro-choice, I mean, I gave her ample opportunity to change what she said. It was right around when I asked her if she would run up to random pregnant strangers and tell them to get an abortion, and she said yes, that I realized she was serious(ly drunk). Then again, the same girl had hip piercings, so dumb was pretty apparent to me at the time as it was.

 

[Zaela]

This thread feels basically dead and I'm sure that saying more will lead nowhere, but what the hell.

Hmm, he kind of is:

Based on his post he seems to be complaining that his damage was nerfed by the new system. And I might not be able to tell any more, but I think your argument at some point was that the new system makes things too easy by taking away a certain unpredictability or uncertainty whenever you cast a nuke. Inasmuch as saying you've been nerfed usually implies that things have been made more difficult for you, it seems to me that beyond not liking the new system the two of you are actually quite opposed: he thinks it makes things unfairly harder, you think it makes things mindlessly easier. But maybe I'm wrong.

And you said the SoD playerbase likes the change, what was that based on? This thread alone?

You say you want feedback, but I know how it works here. (Waldo excluded) You can't stand anyone who doesn't toe the line and you can't take criticism well, but some of you are only too happy to dish it out and are even insulting to newcomers for no reason.

It is an unfortunate fact that we can only go by what people say and not what they keep to themselves as far as opinions go. It's also unfortunate that the forums are the best venue for airing player's opinions; throwing out a question in /ooc would be chaotic and it would be hard to keep track of the responses, much less hold clear and structured arguments. Also, doing that would obviously be biased in favor of the opinions of the players who were online, paying attention, had ooc on, and weren't too busy to participate at the time. So here we are. It would be nice if more players used the forums, but I understand that even people who know about it might be wary, either because they'd rather just play the game rather than have lengthy discussions about it, or because they know that official forums for online games tend to be awful places.

In addition, it would seem that even asking for people's opinions, whether on the forums or in ooc or elsewhere, would itself not be acceptable for gauging the opinions of the playerbase inasmuch as it is being asked by one of the passive-aggressive staffers who can't take criticism and only intend to browbeat anyone who disagrees; the very act of asking the question would be coercive.

In other words, finding out if the players by and large are okay with this change, or even if they agree with you and want the game to become more like classic EQ and stop focusing on raiding (though I find myself wondering what we should be adding to the lower game to make it more interesting without just ensuring that more of the already existing content is ignored and without creating more lower-end gear inflation that would just make things easier--but that is a matter for another time) is fundamentally impossible, at least in any way which could be communicated to us clearly enough that we would feel obliged to act on it.

But, just to give it a try, I made a simplistic, anonymous, yes-or-no poll for this thread and about this new resist system. Usher players to it as you please.

Gosh, maybe they do exist?! Are you guys going to tell him to fuck off back to p99 as well? You know you want to.

I was serious in suggesting looking into playing on that server instead, and I'm not really sure why (it seems to me, at least) you are taking it almost as an insult. I meant it wholeheartedly and without spite.

I don't want to get into a whole gaming philosophy thing here, but it seems to me that a game is, fundamentally, a waste of time. It may seem intuitive to say that since we are providing an MMO game here our goal should obviously be to attract and retain as many players as possible (indeed, Woldaff does a whole "account drive" thing now and then to try to bring in new players), but personally I'm not sure why this ought to be the case. We don't gain anything in administrating, creating content, finding bugs, thinking up new concepts, dealing with hardware and software issues, and so on, except for something to keep us busy and soak up our attention for a while. I think it's much the same for players: you don't really gain anything in hitting 65, or completing quests, or tackling content for the first time, or getting a desired piece of gear, or beating the highest raid boss currently in the game. But with a huge series of potential and easily frustrateable in-game goals, both short term ones which may take a single sitting and longer ones which you may or may not ever reach, not to mention much time lost to sitting around meditating, waiting for a pull to be split, waiting for buffs, waiting for death effects to wear off, waiting for a spawn, waiting for the zone to load, waiting to get to your destination and so on, it is a very effective and absorbing time waster. But, ultimately, it doesn't matter if you waste your time here or on some other server or some other game: as long as you don't mind the manner in which your time is wasted, and your time is indeed wasted, then any game is as good as any other. It would be silly to try to keep players coming back year after year to the exclusion of other games, or to draw in and ensnare ever increasing amounts of new players, because there are plenty of other choices which are just as good, if not better, at wasting time, and we gain nothing in drawing people away from other games, and really our little niche EQ server is nothing special.

If anything, I would kind of hope that a player would quit after a year or two, whether they were a "good" player or not, especially if they played on a near-daily basis. Maybe we should be trying to reform our "culture" somehow to be more nicey-nice and accepting for new players, but I almost want to say that would be a bad thing. A player should be able to step back and tell themselves "you know what, this place is actually pretty horrible" when the time comes. I know it's hardly a universal problem, but an MMO by its very nature is almost too easy to become addicted to, and anything that would make it harder to leave or easier to get sucked in would be bad for our players, I think.

Which I guess brings me back to the p99 thing. I don't want to seem like I'm preaching to you here or making assumptions about you as a person, but it seems to me that if our game is no longer the one you used to enjoy, and if we've already driven away all the good players you knew, and if our staff and changes and style of administration will inevitably repulse any newer players with good attitudes, is there any reason left to feel attached to this server? You can keep coming back here and making lengthy posts when you probably already expect that you are wasting your breath and that the only result will be someone making a poor and insulting post about you, or you can maybe try out this other server that really does sound like it may already be exactly what you are looking for in an emulated EQ server (admittedly I don't know much about what it's like myself, but still). I don't mean it as an insult at all, quite the opposite: I think that from a purely rational perspective, p99 seems like a better choice than SoD for you.

But feel free to correct me.

 

[stral]

No really, it should be a requirement as a staffer to work retail for a few months, just so you can recognize when someone comes in flipping shit for the sake of flipping shit. You can disagree with a thing, post why you disagree with it, and you have provided your feedback. Maybe people agree with you maybe they don't. Beyond that, going on and on in the direct personalized manner he's taken is far from productive, and treating it like it's a legitimate, productive form of feedback is just bad for the forums. It's a shame this guy isn't trying to troll, because I've never seen someone so effectively do it. I mean, the guy got away scott-free with telling the lead admin on the server to go fuck himself, just because he had provoked an instinctual and or emotional response earlier from him which made him feel like he deserved it, I guess.

 

[Slaariel]

this is insane.

robots stop your nonsense you are doing nothing but wigging out and swinging blind it's dumb and every post you make says a lot more about you than about the game or any other player.

you are off the rails get back on em or go away.

 

[robots]

Nice reply (Zaela)

But, just to give it a try, I made a simplistic, anonymous, yes-or-no poll for this thread and about this new resist system. Usher players to it as you please.

Cool

is there any reason left to feel attached to this server?

It's not far off what I would consider great. I think it once was, but lost its way a bit, but it also improved in a lot of ways at the same time. The main quest, class balance, etc.

I don't mean it as an insult at all, quite the opposite: I think that from a purely rational perspective, p99 seems like a better choice than SoD for you.

But feel free to correct me.

It's a close call. I like the old mechanics, but unfortunately that comes hand in hand with all the other old stuff which isn't so good. ie: All the bottlenecks like the AC ring etc. and the lack of two boxing kills it for me. That's why I care about SoD - it has better content imo.