We All Love Monks, Here

Slaariel said:
Okay, how about this for a compromise solution. NON-TANKING Monks get bonus to aux, do more damage from front, avoid AE attacks, take mitigated AE spell damage. TANKING MONKS who are the only damage source get these bonuses. TANKING MONKS do not get these bonuses. Therefore if you are in a raid and being DPS then okay you are sustaining. If you are solo/duo, you can hold aggro and defend. If you are off-tanking well you are gonna get beat on pretty bad.
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This is kind of how I felt monks should be balanced, and the combo system was a step in that direction with the +accuracy/-avoid combo and the evasive tank combo. Having an option of doing nearly top tier DPS but being a very bad tank while doing so, or sacrificing DPS to tank better or to provide some other sort of actual utility to a group/raid.

Being stuck as a second tier tank and third tier dps means there's no point in having you there because second tier tank still means you get destroyed and can't actually tank anything on-tier, or at least that's how it's been on this server for a long time. I'd rather not have the new direction be "top tier melee single target dps and horrible tank" because if that's what I wanted to play, I would have rolled a rogue.
 
The only thing I have to say is do not make it so I can't hold Aggro duo. I play Jaec/Flotte for plat farming and already have a hard time holding aggro against the shammy. To make it so that when the Shammy DPS's that I can not hold aggro is gonna kill off my duo Comp very hard. Also I have seen Ranger's tank Sanctum Trash, it cost them Bow DPS but they do it. No reason u can't setup a way to make the Mnk same way.

Anyways no good idea here other than a perma stance but that may not be what you are after. So just my 2 cents, allow me some aggro and a little tankiness.
 
A tanking Monk that a mob is directly attacking and no other definition! And if a Monk can't hold aggro over a Shaman what world are we in and what are we even discussing?
 
Slaariel said:
Editing to add that I think Monk DPS should be high and their ability to tank should be low. If anything, I was considering making BSTs the 2nd tier tank (this is another thread for later).
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im ok with this. as is, we tank like poo poo doing massive kick anyway
 
Dinadass said:
This is kind of how I felt monks should be balanced, and the combo system was a step in that direction with the +accuracy/-avoid combo and the evasive tank combo. Having an option of doing nearly top tier DPS but being a very bad tank while doing so, or sacrificing DPS to tank better or to provide some other sort of actual utility to a group/raid.

Being stuck as a second tier tank and third tier dps means there's no point in having you there because second tier tank still means you get destroyed and can't actually tank anything on-tier, or at least that's how it's been on this server for a long time. I'd rather not have the new direction be "top tier melee single target dps and horrible tank" because if that's what I wanted to play, I would have rolled a rogue.
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I agree with most of this but FD is very large utility in solo, duo, group, AND raid situations. It's just huge. I wish Monks would stop pretending it's just some frivolous addition to their class that doesn't mean anything.
 
High tier 6mans where FD matters: Rohk trash, sometimes

High tier 6mans where FD doesn't matter:
Forest Gloom
Claw Commander
Fae stuff
4.3
Curator
Eniva

High tier raids where FD matters:
Some turruj tribes

High tier raids where FD doesn't matter:
Custo
Taeshlin
VZ
Blazewind
Monstrosity
Prime Twins
Some turruj tribes

Additionally, SKs can and have pulled pretty much everything in the game that monks usually do. All while being top tier tanks and the highest DPS of them as well, time for a nerf.

FD is absolutely an amazing skill and a whole lot of low/mid tier content simply cannot be done without it. That changes around tier 10-11 though and from then on it is seldom required (which is a good thing for class balance as a whole imo). Plus as I said, other classes can FD too and in some scenarios do it more reliably than monks.
 
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Susvain pretty much nails it with FD, in my limited amount of time spent against t10-11 stuff and 6mans(even as low as emberflow) a monk is splitting mobs closer to 10% of the pulls then 50% of the pulls even.
 
Dinadass said:
High tier 6mans where FD matters: Rohk trash, sometimes

High tier 6mans where FD doesn't matter:
Forest Gloom
Claw Commander
Fae stuff
4.3
Curator
Eniva

High tier raids where FD matters:
Some turruj tribes

High tier raids where FD doesn't matter:
Custo
Taeshlin
VZ
Blazewind
Monstrosity
Prime Twins
Some turruj tribes

Additionally, SKs can and have pulled pretty much everything in the game that monks usually do. All while being top tier tanks and the highest DPS of them as well, time for a nerf.

FD is absolutely an amazing skill and a whole lot of low/mid tier content simply cannot be done without it. That changes around tier 10-11 though and from then on it is seldom required (which is a good thing for class balance as a whole imo). Plus as I said, other classes can FD too and in some scenarios do it more reliably than monks.
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Spend more time monking fd is awesome for blazewind and monstrosity. It is also super useful for wipe recovery.


Also, warriors considerably out dps sks if equally geared.
 
Also not to derail a thread but when played correctly are fairly better at tanking they just have to be played well where a ks can terror/life tap tank
 
"Hey lets bring a monk to blazewind for that last spot over a ranger alt, he'll do a few hundred less DPS but he can feign death" said nobody ever.
 
U said it was useless, it is a useful mechanic. For that argument why ever bring a monk over a rogue/ranger? Or a mage/necro/beast/ over a Wizard/Rogue/Ranger.
 
Slaar called FD "very large utility in solo, duo, group, AND raid situations. It's just huge." I disagree that FD is "huge" for the vast majority of endgame content. Being able to avoid some AOE when the rest of the group can't and will need to be healed anyway is simply not that big a deal, in fact it is a detriment because it interrupts your swing timers and is a dps loss.
 
Slaariel said:
If anything, I was considering making BSTs the 2nd tier tank (this is another thread for later).
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Shut_up_and_take_my_money.png
 
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Two observations for now. One, with the whole monk dps vs mage/necro/ranger dps.... all of those classes can stay far away, out of ww, ramp, etc. and even outrange some aoes. Only means so much, but it does mean something. Secondly, the whole argument against monks needing to be able to tank.... maybe in a perfect server situation, but with the current state of the server, taking monks out of the pool of possible tanks for xp, etc. just doesn't seem like a good idea right now imo.
 
i just dont understand why monk feel like they should get to tank and dps. Like saying I want my pets to tank like a warrior but the masters to still dps like a rogue/wizard.... i would like my cake and to eat it too. Not againt giving them to option to switch like a pally tho, but if u wanna tank you gotta do dps like a tank, not 80% of ur dps. barefist x2 1handers for dpsing, 2hander for keeping the mob away adn defecting attacks.
 
Even with our avoidance stance and avoidance combo, we can't tank any difficult mobs. Lasting one or two rounds more than a caster before RNG betrays you and you get onerounded doesn't make you a tank. And I haven't seen anyone asking to be both a tank and a top tier dps so I don't even know who you're arguing with.
 
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